It's Over

[ericmsant2]

Bottom line? I am done. Barring a miracle, my marriage is over.

Actually you are correct Dever…the OLD M is DEAD, over, kaput, done, finito. That said, a NEW M or R can emerge and must. BOTH OF YOU caused the old M to die. Not just HER Denver you too.

Me: 'Man, you are destroying a marriage, a family... why don't you be a man and do what is right?'

This comment…up there ^^^^ struck me Denver…I will tell you why in a sec.

You may think that you are in love with my wife, but she is still my wife.

Yes Denver she is YOUR wife…not YOUR property though. A big difference. You see, right now you want what you cant have. Right now YOU want things YOUR way! Typical controlling behavior if you ask me. Is it right that your W is f*cking someone else? NO – No f*cking way…have you asked yourself WHY she is doing this? IF so, have you given it the time, effort and energy that SHE gave the M? Hmmm….

I am not your possession and you lost me fair and square while you f'd with my heart for 8 years. You have a lot of nerve."

Actually it looked like she agreed with me….. “f’d with my heart for 8 years. Did you Denver? Did you mess with her heart for EIGHT loooooonnnnngggg years?

and the thing is Denver, a part of me agrees...meaning, you have painted yourself into a corner with the insistent threat/promise/declaration that it was over now.

Isn’t pride a b*tch. Ya know, what 25 said was spot on.

I was actually very careful to avoid violating any laws, at least technically.

Technically? Ya gotta be kidding me. Do you mean to tell me that you are here trying to save your M (actually you should be trying to save yourself but I’ll get to that later) and you are going to use the EXCUSE of “technically”.

You know Denver, I was really going to pick apart you entire thread to show what I see but first let me start by asking you a simple question.

Do you still love your W?

Actually make that a few questions….

Do you still love her enough to forgive the affair?

Did you make any mistakes in your M? If so, how long did you W ask you to change albeit directly or via her actions? Seriously, how long? Could you be honest and say that she asked you many many times? If so, do you think that maybe she deserve the same from you? That being TIME?

Have you read the DB book? Do you fully understand what detachment is?

You say that you will not have an open M, while at the same time you say you love her unconditionally. What does unconditional love mean to you? Oh, and FTR it does not mean that you sit around and watch her f*ck someone else. At least not in my book…but what does unconditional love mean to you?

Okay Denver, let me stop beating around the bush here and tell you what I see….

I see a man that is angry and pissed the f off. I see a man that wants to control the sitch. I see a man that has done some work and now feels that the time has come that his W snap her a*s back to reality and accept that he has changed and is sorry. I see a man that is frustrated by his stich. I see a man that has not let go. I see a man that is sitting whining a moaning about his sitch. I see a man that honestly comes across as better than his wife. That’s right…I said it..err..wrote it..I think you think you are better than her.

I see you playing the victim. I see you making changes ONLY to get her back and when she did not or has not responded the way you WANT, well then you throw somewhat of a fit. I see a man that is pissed.


I see a man so angry (oh and I understand why you feel this way) that his actions and his decision are driven by his anger and NOT by his love (oh…and love also includes tough love, clear boundaries, and holding someone accountable for their actions). I see a man that is so hurt, yet says he is done. Denver, you and your wife aint done. You are not done by a long shot. FTR, usually when someone is really done they do not announce it. Oh…and all of this is over when YOU say it is. The question you should ask yourself is HOW do you want this to end….cause you may not know it now but you do control HOW this goes.

Denver, I have seen a lot in my time on the boards and what I see so often is people that begin to do work on themselves and then get pissed off when the spouse does not recognize it the timeline that THEY EXPECT.

You keep pushing her, you keep throwing in her face that you are going to file. That Denver is control. That Denver is being a spoiled child who is pissed that he is not getting his way. That Denver is NOT a man that I think you would aspire to be.

You may think I am being an as* and you may be saying to yourself who the f*ck is this guy. If you are, I will answer you….1) I am not trying to be an as* - I really want to help you and 3) I am a 41 year old guy that learned so much about myself and about R’s that I want to help you save YOU and God willing your M.


FTR, you do not even have to respond to this post….What I would like you to do is this….

Stop for a second and step outside of the anger.

Think about you for a second….

Stop for a second and put your male pride aside…just for a second. FTR, I am not one that suggest that you put your pride aside forever…

Stop for a second and do not think about OM

Stop for a second and do not try and control the sitch, your wife, your emotions,

Just stop….for a day…..

Stop thinking about your M

Stop thinking about how fu*ked up the whole sitch is

Stop thinking about her actions of late

Stop thinking about OM and Lord knows that is some seriously touch chit to deal with man. It really is. So please know that my heart does go out to you.

Stop thinking about reconciliation, divorce, the whole legal shebang that follows these type of sitches

Stop thinking about everybody that post to you

Just stop….and

Ask yourself a few question…..

Do you love your wife and I mean really love her?

Do you think that YOU can forgive her for her transgressions?

Do you want her back?

What role did YOU play in this and I mean really what role?

Do you want to stop feeling like chit?

Who Denver do you want to be?

What kind of man do you want to be Denver?

What does that man look like to you?

Answer these questions for yourself Denver…..

Answer them when you are no longer angry….

I have been where you are Denver…. I have three children that mean the world to me.

I have been on the receiving end of knowing that my wife was f*cking her supervisor. I know the pain well.

I have sat in the victim chair. I have had those pity parties and Oh….have I been angry..so angry…an anger that consumed me for a LONG TIME…..

Then….Denver….

Then I finally started to ask myself the real hard questions….

I started to do the real hard work….

I started to understand that something that took a long time to break was NOT going to be fixed IN MY TIME.

I started to understand that I could NOT impose MY will on someone else.

I started to feel free Denver….

Things cleared up….

I accepted my role in this….I forgave myself….

I forgave my W….Denver….

I forgave her for me Denver not for HER…

My friends never understood, fu*k some still don’t Denver….but….

But…Denver…I found what was the greatest gift I could have ever received….

I found Me….I found who I wanted to be Denver….

I found that I was a victim if I allowed MYSELF and OTHERS to view me that way.

I found Denver, that a man will make tough choices and stand by those choices…

I found Denver that a man will make choice after taking his TIME….

TIME Denver….

TIME…..

You got this IF YOU WANT IT.

Your choice buddy…..

You have some of the best people I know posting to YOU….listen to them Denver….

Oh, and the comment above (the second quote)....ya know what struck me about the comment Denver? The OM, did not cause the break up - he did not destroy the family or M. You and Your W did! Focus on YOUR ROLE and FIX those issues Denver - for YOU...not for YOUR W.


God Bless,
Eric

[Queen_of_Swords]

If I may Denver; perhaps you do not need to file D papers, perhaps negotiating a first step will do? Instead draw up a formal separation agreement as a sort of way station to D should it come to that?

Just a thought.

[Denver_2010]

Denver:

I have thought long and hard about your sitch. What is it that you really want right now? I'll bet you cant really answer that with 100% certainty at the moment. Ill bet you fluctuate from one moment to the next.

Yep. I have no idea what I want right now. Not to be in emotional pain 24/7? That would be a start.

So I believe, for the time being, DONT make any final decisions right now. 2steps post was awesome. When I got back on this site, you and 2step seemed to dominate the board; in a good way.

Look at all the people that have responded to you Denver. There is no question that you are a very likeable person that will do well one way or another.

Thanks 9. I appreciate you saying that. And I have come to see that the same is true of you. 2Step! Oh yes. You have no idea how close he and I are. Great guy. Really.

If I can mirror your sitch a little. What do I want most , and I am calm right now. I want my Wife back and my family together , but its not that simple. I dont want that at the cost of my self respect and self worth. Before all this crap happened, I was positive I could never accept an affair and a continued relationship with my W and even entertain the thought of accepting her back.

Same here. I would never have said that I would EVER consider sticking around if W was having an A... Until it happened to me.

My self respect is what I fear being damaged the most right now.

ONly YOU can tell when you are being a doormat or when you are standing up for what you believe in.

And that is where I am now. What happened yesterday made me feel like a doormat. For the first time in my entire sitch. With all of the sh!t that my W has said and done over the past 6 months, I always felt that she had a reason... that I had contributed to it. This is the first time that I haven't felt that way... that I have felt taken advantage of. And that is why my reaction is completely different.

As I mentioned earlier, one thing you know for sure now is that your NEW wife is capable of lying to you about her affair. YOu would not accept that before.

And I still won't accept it 9. Honestly man, I got to tell you. I STILL believe that my W would not be capable of this WHEN she is fully committed to me, or anyone for that matter. I just know her too well. But, she is not fully committed.

And she is lost in her life right now. I KNOW that she is going through some serious issues about feeling that she has lived her life for others for so long, that her youth was robbed of her from having son at a young age, having a chance at a serious career in music for the same reason, and having had her dad abandon her at a young age. She is lost and confused. I honestly believe that her behavior over the past 6 months is not who she truly is... or how she wants to live her life.

Thanks again 9. It is nice to have so much support.

[Denver_2010]

If I may Denver; perhaps you do not need to file D papers, perhaps negotiating a first step will do? Instead draw up a formal separation agreement as a sort of way station to D should it come to that?

Just a thought.

Thanks Scylla. I have considered that as well. I guess that I don't see me filing for a D as anything but me saying that I am done and wanting to move on with my life. And as I think about things, I guess that I can't really say that for certain.

Filing for D would also be done to see if it jars W back to her senses. But that is not a valid reason to file I don't think. Even if it was, if I did it, I had better be prepared to follow through. I don't see formal separation as having the same oomph that filing for D would in this regard either. I think that it would just give W more justification and rationalization to do what she pleases.

[Denver_2010]

Bottom line? I am done. Barring a miracle, my marriage is over.

Actually you are correct Dever…the OLD M is DEAD, over, kaput, done, finito. That said, a NEW M or R can emerge and must. BOTH OF YOU caused the old M to die. Not just HER Denver you too.

Me: 'Man, you are destroying a marriage, a family... why don't you be a man and do what is right?'

This comment…up there ^^^^ struck me Denver…I will tell you why in a sec.

You may think that you are in love with my wife, but she is still my wife.

Yes Denver she is YOUR wife…not YOUR property though. A big difference. You see, right now you want what you cant have. Right now YOU want things YOUR way! Typical controlling behavior if you ask me. Is it right that your W is f*cking someone else? NO – No f*cking way…have you asked yourself WHY she is doing this? IF so, have you given it the time, effort and energy that SHE gave the M? Hmmm….

I am not your possession and you lost me fair and square while you f'd with my heart for 8 years. You have a lot of nerve."

Actually it looked like she agreed with me….. “f’d with my heart for 8 years. Did you Denver? Did you mess with her heart for EIGHT loooooonnnnngggg years?

and the thing is Denver, a part of me agrees...meaning, you have painted yourself into a corner with the insistent threat/promise/declaration that it was over now.

Isn’t pride a b*tch. Ya know, what 25 said was spot on.

I was actually very careful to avoid violating any laws, at least technically.

Technically? Ya gotta be kidding me. Do you mean to tell me that you are here trying to save your M (actually you should be trying to save yourself but I’ll get to that later) and you are going to use the EXCUSE of “technically”.

You know Denver, I was really going to pick apart you entire thread to show what I see but first let me start by asking you a simple question.

Do you still love your W?

Actually make that a few questions….

Do you still love her enough to forgive the affair?

Did you make any mistakes in your M? If so, how long did you W ask you to change albeit directly or via her actions? Seriously, how long? Could you be honest and say that she asked you many many times? If so, do you think that maybe she deserve the same from you? That being TIME?

Have you read the DB book? Do you fully understand what detachment is?

You say that you will not have an open M, while at the same time you say you love her unconditionally. What does unconditional love mean to you? Oh, and FTR it does not mean that you sit around and watch her f*ck someone else. At least not in my book…but what does unconditional love mean to you?

Okay Denver, let me stop beating around the bush here and tell you what I see….

I see a man that is angry and pissed the f off. I see a man that wants to control the sitch. I see a man that has done some work and now feels that the time has come that his W snap her a*s back to reality and accept that he has changed and is sorry. I see a man that is frustrated by his stich. I see a man that has not let go. I see a man that is sitting whining a moaning about his sitch. I see a man that honestly comes across as better than his wife. That’s right…I said it..err..wrote it..I think you think you are better than her.

I see you playing the victim. I see you making changes ONLY to get her back and when she did not or has not responded the way you WANT, well then you throw somewhat of a fit. I see a man that is pissed.


I see a man so angry (oh and I understand why you feel this way) that his actions and his decision are driven by his anger and NOT by his love (oh…and love also includes tough love, clear boundaries, and holding someone accountable for their actions). I see a man that is so hurt, yet says he is done. Denver, you and your wife aint done. You are not done by a long shot. FTR, usually when someone is really done they do not announce it. Oh…and all of this is over when YOU say it is. The question you should ask yourself is HOW do you want this to end….cause you may not know it now but you do control HOW this goes.

Denver, I have seen a lot in my time on the boards and what I see so often is people that begin to do work on themselves and then get pissed off when the spouse does not recognize it the timeline that THEY EXPECT.

You keep pushing her, you keep throwing in her face that you are going to file. That Denver is control. That Denver is being a spoiled child who is pissed that he is not getting his way. That Denver is NOT a man that I think you would aspire to be.

You may think I am being an as* and you may be saying to yourself who the f*ck is this guy. If you are, I will answer you….1) I am not trying to be an as* - I really want to help you and 3) I am a 41 year old guy that learned so much about myself and about R’s that I want to help you save YOU and God willing your M.


FTR, you do not even have to respond to this post….What I would like you to do is this….

Stop for a second and step outside of the anger.

Think about you for a second….

Stop for a second and put your male pride aside…just for a second. FTR, I am not one that suggest that you put your pride aside forever…

Stop for a second and do not think about OM

Stop for a second and do not try and control the sitch, your wife, your emotions,

Just stop….for a day…..

Stop thinking about your M

Stop thinking about how fu*ked up the whole sitch is

Stop thinking about her actions of late

Stop thinking about OM and Lord knows that is some seriously touch chit to deal with man. It really is. So please know that my heart does go out to you.

Stop thinking about reconciliation, divorce, the whole legal shebang that follows these type of sitches

Stop thinking about everybody that post to you

Just stop….and

Ask yourself a few question…..

Do you love your wife and I mean really love her?

Do you think that YOU can forgive her for her transgressions?

Do you want her back?

What role did YOU play in this and I mean really what role?

Do you want to stop feeling like chit?

Who Denver do you want to be?

What kind of man do you want to be Denver?

What does that man look like to you?

Answer these questions for yourself Denver…..

Answer them when you are no longer angry….

I have been where you are Denver…. I have three children that mean the world to me.

I have been on the receiving end of knowing that my wife was f*cking her supervisor. I know the pain well.

I have sat in the victim chair. I have had those pity parties and Oh….have I been angry..so angry…an anger that consumed me for a LONG TIME…..

Then….Denver….

Then I finally started to ask myself the real hard questions….

I started to do the real hard work….

I started to understand that something that took a long time to break was NOT going to be fixed IN MY TIME.

I started to understand that I could NOT impose MY will on someone else.

I started to feel free Denver….

Things cleared up….

I accepted my role in this….I forgave myself….

I forgave my W….Denver….

I forgave her for me Denver not for HER…

My friends never understood, fu*k some still don’t Denver….but….

But…Denver…I found what was the greatest gift I could have ever received….

I found Me….I found who I wanted to be Denver….

I found that I was a victim if I allowed MYSELF and OTHERS to view me that way.

I found Denver, that a man will make tough choices and stand by those choices…

I found Denver that a man will make choice after taking his TIME….

TIME Denver….

TIME…..

You got this IF YOU WANT IT.

Your choice buddy…..

You have some of the best people I know posting to YOU….listen to them Denver….

Oh, and the comment above (the second quote)....ya know what struck me about the comment Denver? The OM, did not cause the break up - he did not destroy the family or M. You and Your W did! Focus on YOUR ROLE and FIX those issues Denver - for YOU...not for YOUR W.


God Bless,
Eric

Thank you Eric. I want to take some time to think about everything that you said. So much of it hit me as I was reading it. And I acknowledge much of what you said about me taking responsibility for my role and my actions. I have acknowledged those things in the past too. But what you said about this not happening on my timeline? That is where I am lost. I know that you and others who have said that are right. I do. But at what point do you take action to jar your WAS into doing some real thinking and reflection themselves? At what point are they to do that? We cannot dictate that. But are we suppose to wait forever? This is my confusion. Where I am stuck.

I do not think that you were being an a$$hole. I think that you are telling me how you see it. And much of it is right.

Do I love my W? Yes.

Do I love her enough to forgive her for what has happened, and continues to happen apparently?

If you ask me later ... once it is all said and done.. the answer is probably yes.

Right now... it is hard for me to say that. My pride, my ego, my pain... all very large within me right now.

So, taking your thoughts on my actions yesterday as true, I f'd up. I have distanced my W from me.

What do I do now?

Do I contact her? Do I apologize? Do I tell her to take all the time and space in the world and F whoever she wants?

I DON'T know what to do.

Most of the advice has been to cut off contact. Detach.

Where is that going to get me?

Me? I honestly do feel that I am a better me than I was before I came here. Better than I ever was before W left me. In fact, I have no doubt about that.

Did I make a mistake yesterday? BAckslide? Maybe. I am human. It doesn't diminish the work that i have done. Nor does it take away from what I have learned about myself. At least IMO.

But what do I do now?

That is the question.

Denver

[Denver_2010]

I didn't think everyone was tossing 2x4s so much as saying Nooooo as in, stop!

And that's where it is.

Except that he did say he'd file and it was over...A lot...so he has a choice to make about saying that so often.

Everyone seems to agree that no contact is mandatory.

Denver if you are taking a poll, that's how the numbers seem to add up.

But in the end, it't your life.

I'm not filing for a D anytime in the very near future. I have decided that. I am going to give it at least a month... maybe 90 days before I even think about it again.

The consensus is that I have no contact with W. Yes. But is that the right thing?

I have no idea where I am with this anymore.

Apparenlty I f'd up yesterday and should have just accepted that my W has renewed an A with OM. And not said or done anything.

Is that what the consensus is?

[Denver_2010]

A few problems with not being LBS crazy anymore, is it's easy to tell someone NOT to be LBS crazy.

Oh yeah Jack. I've been there. I was warning others and shaking my head when they didn't listen back in January, February and March. Good times not being LBS crazy.

I am now though. I admit it.

It is impatience, ego, pride... all of it.

In my defense though, this is much worse than merely thinking it could be happening as I was in December and January. And much worse than knowing 'it did happen and now it's over' as I did in February, March, April and May. This is 'it IS happening' ...

While I'm watching t.v. minding my own business in my own home... W may be f'ing OM. While I lay in bed trying to go to sleep, what is W doing with OM? Etc. Etc. AND everyone here who has a W in an active A knows what I'm talking about. As does anyone who has gone through it.

My ego and pride are strong influences on me right now. I don't know if I can go through this without removing myself from W's life and doing my best to detach... and maybe even do things that make me feel that I have done to her what she is doing to me.... THESE are my thoughts right now.

Not all of it...needs to be followed through, not all of it was logical.

I assume that you are talking about my threat to file for D Jack. I'm not going to. At least not right now. But is it a hit to my credibility with W? Does it confirm her view that I was trying to control her?

Probably. I have to live with that I guess. The alternative isn't doable right now. At least it isn't the right thing to do. Not now. Bc I am unsure.

many days are left on your counter that you set up when you were logical?

60. I have decided to wait at least 30 before I do anything and possibly restart the 90 days. In the meantime, no contact with W? Go dark? Where does that get me?

"Everyone gets one big f-ck up, Jack. Now does that mean one night? Or one person until they wake up? Well that's up to you to determine."

To determine what 1 f-ck up means.

I don't know. It is a very valid question. I think that I am definitely struggling with the fact that there has been this 3 month interlude between her original A, where we spent lots of time together, and now. I am struggling to accept that after those 3 months, she is back doing this. Is that the same single F'up? I guess that I just don't know.

I'm sure that someday, I could look back on it and view it as the same singular f'up. It doesn't seem that way now. That is the problem.

Own your part in what happened.

Did you break in?

Uhhh...yeah you did. Don't lawyer weasel out of the wording.

LOL... break in might be a little strong still Jack. Did I get into the house through deceit and chicanery? Probably, yes. LOL. I own it. I don't regret it though.


Thanks Jack
Denver

[2stepboogie]

Haven’t seen a thread grow this quickly since my early days when something was actually happening in my own sitch.

Denver you are getting hit from all sides tonight and I doubt I will add anything that will offer any comfort to you right now. DMOD called it right. You will get plenty of opinions and ideas and sure enough it has happened. I just want to offer you some support and I hope you find some level of peace among the chaos. I am mostly going to ask questions that I believe should be addressed.

I hear a lot of talk about YOU and what YOU need to do and how YOU should look in the mirror and how YOU contributed to your own fall and how YOU should not have gone over there and how YOU should not have confronted OM and the like.

Here is thing that I take issue with.

While there is little doubt that you have played a role in all of this from the beginning there are two people here that play a role not one.

Do I see controlling? I don’t know that I see controlling as much as I see a person unwilling to be trampled by another person’s actions. Let’s not kid ourselves here, their actions DO affect us and no matter how hard we would like for that not to be the case, well it just simply is.

Will you get to a point that it will not? I believe we all will. It is called the end. It is called peace and an acceptance.

You know when you are detached? When they give you hope and it does not matter. Does that mean you love your W any less? I don’t think so. It just means that you are perfectly content with living your life without them in it. At that point any decision you make towards reconciliation is based on just that a decision not a feeling. Is it worth it to you to want to try again because you DON”T have to.

What I wrote on your thread is specific to you. I would not post that on 9 or country KM or karma but in your case I believe it to be true.

Why?

Because their W’s have made it clear that they are not working on anything and that they are seeing OM. They have chosen the tough road and for that I respect them immensely. Your W has not taken that approach. She has given a very clear indication that she is skeptical but that she is peeking and that R with OM is stopped completely until she figures things out. That has been her approach and her stance so I take exception to the fact that it is ok or that somehow you should back off because you don’t have the right to question the current events.

I understand some of the stuff I am saying is not popular and goes against some of the values we profess here on the DB site. I am not excusing any bad behavior on your part. What I am saying is that every sitch and every person has a limit that they should not cross and you have to decide where that is for you. In time I believe you will.

At this point all this is, is information for you to read when your head clears and I hope I am not adding to the confusion. You made a statement to your W and now you have to decide whether you are going to back it up or not. Here is the problem with backing it up. You could end up D. Here is the problem with not backing it up. Your credibility is shot and you could end up D anyways.

Our WAS are not in a fog, at least not all of them. That is a simple term we use to justify their actions while we sit here suffering their actions. We use it as a crutch to hold on, to excuse and to forgive. They are grown a$$ people who make decisions that affect not only their lives but the lives of those around them. In your case SS if prob the most affected.

She can blame you all she wants but in the end it is her choices that will determine the outcome.

Where do you come in?

Well you will either bail or stand. There really is no two ways about it. Bailing requires you to say F it and move on. Of course you are IMHO nowhere near the point of making that decision. Standing requires you to completely change your approach from what you have been doing and I believe what has happened is a perfect opportunity for you to do it.

See loving your W does not require you to stand by as she sleeps with OM. Not at all, but it does require a certain level of behavior modification that for the most part does not come natural in these types of circumstances. You can hate the action but continue to love the person. It isn't that they can't see the solution. It's that they can't see the problem.

Oh yeah the questions huh?

Well it is simple really

Why is it ok?

Why should anybody sit by and allow anyone else to determine their happiness?

Why is it that some walk and some don’t when faced with the same problems?

Where does your feelings and the damage they have caused come into play?

Why is it up to one and not both?

You can only work on you. I get that.

You can only control what you have done. I get that also.

In order to correct anything you FIRST have to look in the mirror and I don’t mean accuse yourself of all your shortcomings and blame yourself for all your marital woes because that is horse dung.

See we ALL have needs in a M and in the beginning we filled each other’s needs. We were happy. Then life happened and we got busy. Soon we stopped doing the little things that mattered to our spouse and the needs began to stop being filled. At this point you have 3 options:

1. Accept your lot in life and live miserably ever after

2. Separate/Divorce because you have reached the end of your rope

3. Take an active approach to see why your M is falling apart and start to address that. It is hard for one spouse to love the other one in a way that is important to them and the other spouse reject them.

This is the part I believe our WAS was missing. The books were there before the separation. The seminars were there. It is called solution based approach and WE ALL had an opportunity to take part in it. You know loving someone does not require for them to love us back. I know this sounds counterproductive but it is true. We do it with our kids all the time. I can’t tell you how many times my D hates me on a daily basis. I love her. The madder she becomes the more I try and love her. You know what happens? She ends up loving me back. This does not mean I let her get away with murder to make her happy it is in the way I handle her that shows that I love her.

Are grown ups In a R/M any different?

I don’t think so. Sure our W’s decided it was time to seek happiness elsewhere and some of us where shocked when it happened but at the end of the day everyone has a choice to make regarding the R. Your W has made it clear that she understood she had you on a string and felt pretty secure you were groveling for her. Are you? Is that a healthy M? Is that even a healthy friendship?

My opinion still stands from before. I don’t think you should file anything right now. Decisions based on anger carry guilt. You don’t need that on your conscience but you also don’t need to be pawn in someone else’s chess game.

Your decisions have caused you great pain her actions have caused you to change now let your actions inspire her to change as well.

I leave you with this prayer and I hope you find some peace today and in the coming weeks.

Dear Lord
Thank you for blessing me with special people
To comfort me throughout my life
Today I am asking you to comfort one of these special people
This dear person is in pain
The kind only you can take away
As I send up this prayer
Please comfort my friend
And in your own unique way
Let them know you are there

I know you are not a very religious person. But I hope it offers some peace.

2step

[2stepboogie]

Oh and J3B I love the way you post man and your insight and advice is invaluable. I have always held a great respect for you.

Those pages you posted.

Well I read them

Only one actually talks about a time when it is ok to walk away after you have tried everything.

The others refer more the LRT but at some point it is not about technique or tools it is about what is right and what is wrong.

IMHO

Don’t hammer me to hard

[Denver_2010]

you sure do say too much. And
[u]
Can you please stop apologizing?

Yes.

either file or don't. But stop taking her calls. Stop all the contact except for ss.

That is my plan. But I've decided not to file for D ... for now.

For now, let her go. Seriously, let her go. She has to feel free to be able to "see" you. Do you get that?

She (and you) need to be free from each other for some amount of time.
You're both too in the fog to see.

She cannot see clearly, she's in a fog of anger, and you keep falling on your sword. That OVER validates her anger.

Let her go. Okay. I have no choice now 25.

She probably IS angry that you seem like a nice guy NOW, b/c some other woman will benefit and that drives her crazy...
LET IT DRIVE HER CRAZY...she needs to see you in a new light.

back off...no more talking at all....

How does she see me in a new light if we are not talking or seeing one another?

FOR NOW my story's point is the temporary part for you to focus on, the "for ONE WEEK" can you NOT say anything to her?[/b]

For ONE WEEK, can you stop all this nonsense? It's really beneath you. AND it does validate her reasons for leaving. It makes you look abusive in her mind.

for SEVEN DAYS can you shelve the crazy interactions, completely, and only speak to SS and NOT about her?

B/C you have to.

I know that I have to. I think that it's going to be longer than 7 days. probably much longer.

But in time she will see you differently. That's a fact. When you step back and leave her alone,

Ok 25. This is what I have to do. I don't know where I will be when I come out on the other side.