25MLC? I could really use your thoughts here since you know my sitch so well.
Denver
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
It's hard to imagine right now, but people do come back from this. This is the time to DO NOTHING, and MAKE NO LIFE DECISIONS right now.
Just back off and take care of yourself.
You are going to get all kinds of advice. Don't act on it right now. You will need some time to put everything in perspective and to determine your own goals.
You will always be able to file, to leave, or to get back together. Take care of Denver right now.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
So... Today was a landmark day/event in my sitch. This will be a long update. I really would appreciate whoever sticks around to read it all. It is somewhat comical... but mostly horrific.
Bottom line? I am done. Barring a miracle, my marriage is over.
Denver, first off, all is not lost, necessarily.
I read it all. I did laugh...fwiw...( cough cough) ahem...
The text conversation and phone conversation UNTIL the end, pretty much was batshit stuff and you know it. You may have been calm on the phone but the problem was that you were ON the phone at all...you know this already of course... [color:#FF0000] Here's the deal...I'll post about the end of the convo but I'm concerned about your repeated statements that you would file b/c you "have no choice" AND you must if you are "self respecting". Sort of paints you into a corner. In a way, how can you NOT file, something?
Are there legal seps there? Can you file a warning letter or something less than div? AND don't forget, here, only 1/3 of divorces filed are ever finalized... The bad news is, that sometimes I think she has you by the ba!!s and NOT
in an attractive way. That can help a situation when you are compensating
and doing 180s but at some point it has to equalize out. She KNOWS she's abusing you...and she continues...enough already.
Sorry but it's just my first impression. YES I know you were a horrible evil troll to her
and she was the perfect wife, always, (here's a tiny dose of reality-
having a batshit son isn't easy, and it's NOT attractive to a lot of men, nor are there many who want the chance to father HIM.
THIS she will learn soon, if she doesn't already know it..)...
She has baggage most men won't deal with unless she's the hottest babe around AND OR has some serious money. AND Or unless they're losers. I dated a bit when h was gone for 2 years and have to say I was quickly guarded with younger men who seemed to want "a cougar with money" (God, I hope that doesn't sound as weird reading it as it is to write it)
But as the w of a doctor and a L myself, I was surprised at how many blatant users are out there. Young men looking for a mommy figure or a place to live with benefits. Not some great love or even great sex (no, I didn't but I have friends who did) and so, I just don't think reality and time on her own, is bad for your cause. UNLESS YOU KEEP FIGHTING...
[/color] Call it intuition or whatever you like, but I had a nagging feeling last night that W was with OM. I broke a cardinal rule and did a drive by of her house. Denver, Denver, Denver....you big goof ball...I'm not even going to comment about ^^^^that... b/c that's how goofy this ^^^ stuff is.
I walked past him and went straight up the stairs to W's bedroom door. It was locked. Let's hope she doesn't file charges...tell me your name is on the deed???
Fortunately, it was very easy to unlock from the outside. It took me literally 3 seconds. Ahhhh nooooo..... Sorry YOUR HONOR,- NOT GUILTY B/C DENVER WAS CRAZY...
I realized that I hadn't checked the toilet room. You know that 4' x 4' room where you go to take a cr*p. I checked the door and it was locked. Again, easy as pie to open. AND there he was... OM sitting on the toilet, underwear down at his ankles in the dark. YOUR HONOR...NOT GUILTY--DENVER had to go to the bathroom...and didn't know it was occupied...
Me: 'Man, you are destroying a marriage, a family... why don't you be a man and do what is right?'
OM: 'I know, I know, I'm sorry. I will leave right now'
Me: 'No, I don't give a sh!t if you leave. But why don't you be a man about all of this? You may think that you are in love with my wife, but she is still my wife. And do you know what you are doing to that little boy in the other room?' Just to chime in for the fun of it, you DO know this ^^^ doesn't even make sense, right? I mean logically, it's batshit. You want him out, but then you say you don't give a sh44 and want him to "man up"-- whatever that means to guys on the toilet...
OM: 'I know. I will.'
Me: 'You will what? How old are you man, 19? [b] Do what's right.'[/b]
OM: 'I will starting now. I promise.'
I walked away at the point. .. I drove SS to my house. I sent W a text message as soon as we got there. Nooooooooo
...blah blah blah blah blah back and forth ANGER ANGER ANGER (STOMPING FEET
HERE BELOW are the gems among the rocks...
W: "I told you that I need space and time to figure things out. Don't you understand that?" translation...I want a way out of this lose lose conversation...but I'm too proud and angry to back down, and have no tools for handling those issues.
Me: "I understand space and time. And W, I'd give you all of the time in the world to figure it out."
W: "Oh, but not if I date other people?!"
Me: "No, that is where my boundary is. I am not okay with that. I will not live in an open marriage. I do not think that you need to date OP to sort through things. It's been 6 months and I haven't." This sounds like a negotiation. Did she KNOW these terms?
W: "So what are you asking me to do?"
Me: "I'm not asking you for anything. I don't want anything from you. I'm not trying to convince you of anything and I'm not trying to get you to do anything. I am moving on with my life. I don't want anything from you at this point. I'm shutting the door on our marriage."
----------YIKES...SHE JUST ASKED YOU WHAT SHE COULD DO....AND YOU SAID NOTHING, AS YOU ARE "SHUTTING THE DOOR"...(sigh)
W: "I always wanted to be loved by you. And now you want to give that to me and it p!sses me off. After all of the years that I tried, it p!ssed me off that it has taken this to get you to want that."
W: "And I still don't believe it. I think that if I hadn't left you and someone else hadn't caught my attention that you'd still be sleeping on the couch and getting upset with me everytime I did any little thing that you don't approve of.' SHE'S DARING YOU TO KEEP TREATING HER RIGHT AND PROVE YOU'RE FOR REAL...BUT she's also wanting to cake eat...and abuse you some more.
Me: "No, that would not happen again. I have learned too much" W: "CAn't you see why I'm afraid?"
WANTS REASSURANCE FROM YOU...HAS SHIFTED THE WHOLE CONVERSATION TO HER TERMS & WHAT SHE WANTS FROM YOU...this used to be what you wanted...right?
Me: "yes. I understand completely why you are afraid."
Me: "I'm not mad. I'm sad. I'm sad that this is the end of our M."
OF COURSE YOU ARE ANGRY...YOUR PRIDE/EGO WAS HURT, AND SO, YOU ARE ENDING THE Marriage... YOU ACTED/TEXTED WITHOUT THINKING. YOU REACTED...bummer.
EVEN THOUGH SHE IS SAYING 'WHAT CAN I DO'? AND 'DON'T YOU SEE WHY I AM AFRAID?"
But in fairness Denver,
you DO have the right to draw your line in the sand.
We all have them and sometimes we don't know where they are until they've been crossed.
We have to look within and shelve the ego and pride and honestly assess whether we can forgive something or even just handle it. (As an example If my h were ever in an A with a sister of mine for instance, I'd drop the m. That's something I could not deal with -unless he had a brain tumor, ya know?)...
So you have to ask yourself, "Can I live with THIS behavior even if it is over? (Is it over??) Is this something I can forgive and forget?" And if the answer is "no", (I don't think this is anti DBing but it might be but here it goes...)
if the answer is no, then maybe we owe it to ourselves AND our spouses, to let them go.
If we know we cannot forgive something, then having a restored happy m, isn't going to ever happen. What's the point then?
Maybe if there are young kids and you don't mind a platonic sham marriage...and some can pull it off.
But otherwise, IF we're going to make them miserable holding it over their head forever or every time we fight throwing it into their faces, and we know this...And we'll always get that sick to the stomach feeling when they're "working late" or get a text...and we won't "work on it"
b/c it's simply something we know we lack in our genes to cope with, THEN YES, it's over... W: "And if I just take space and don't see anyone else?"
She's negotiating/asking you for the terms of the R...
Me: "Um, I don't know. I suppose that if you came to me and said that, I would have something to think about. But again, I'm not asking you for anything. As far as I'm concerned, I am moving on." You better have meant that b/c if you didn't, then you just shut a door she had opened...She was thinking about offering you those terms or at least probing, and she would have had to swallow her pride to agree then and there...but YOU stopped it so she could not.
. I ended the convo. "well, I'm going to go. you are not saying anything."
IMO, just my gut, the translation here is -That's you telling her you want an apology and a promise and a new R, and then her not being able to comply...
W: "Okay. Bye."
Me: "Bye"
Obviously, today, You guys lacked good communication skills and that's putting it mildly. Couples need to be able to fight fair or walk away. These types of fights leave wounds that sometimes cannot heal. Was this typical of old behavior?
Too bad you continued to threaten and then she dared you to follow through and you insisted that you WILL folllow through and you explain you "have to" b/c you "have no choice" b/c she is making you do this... and the thing is Denver, a part of me agrees...meaning, you have painted yourself into a corner with the insistent threat/promise/declaration that it was over now.
SO my question is two fold.
First, is it over? I mean we know you love her, but seriously it might be over for you if this is something that just crossed the line too much for you.
If my h were with a 19 y/o, I'd have some ego issues but I'd also know that those "ego issues" are frickin REAL and they might not go away very easily
and if there are other problems too...I don't know if I could do that. I probably would need some serious space...
Like maybe I would file and then just let it drop...make no movement.
Here in this state, if you file and then do nothing for 6 months, it expires.
You could possibly try that.
File, then forget about it, and act as if and I mean ACT AS IF in the zero backsliding ways.
No more fighting, no more R talk or even overt effort...just you pleasantly moving on and staying involved in SS life, big time
He's your way back to her you know...
OR you somehow explain why you are not filing but you would have to do that in a way that doesn't make you look weak or indecisive or as if you were simply angry and trying to control her...
which you were/are...
But if you do nothing, then....idk...well, then what?
Can Denver say (about 39 times) he's "done" "moving on" and have her dare him to do it (about 53 times) and him insisting "This is it! She "crossed a line and it's over!" and then do nothing, without losing all his credibility?
Denver,
Your goal is not saving your marriage "at all costs"...isn't it having a restored marriage with healthy boundaries...?
I just pose those questions to you. [b]You are the only one who can answer them but do Answer them before you do anything.
Oh, and NO MORE of these furious conversations!! So much anger that even the end comments were almost not worth it...were they? [/b] I guess she was dishonest with you. But I'm not clear on what you were thinking she was doing all this time...being like you were?
But she wasn't...she wanted to date. She's not the type of woman (with that son), to be able to be alone for any real amount of time. She's the type of woman who needs a man around. A source of affection and fun to give her a break, in the ceaseless demands of son.
Is it b/c the "A" before, was a fait accompli when you found out way back when, whereas now, it's NOW and that's what you cannot abide by?
Correct? I get that. But healthy boundaries, and pride based punishments often have a fine line between them...So, you have a choice to make.
1. Can you file and push the pedal to the floor, get it over with & finally so move on with your life?
2. Can you file and then ignore it?
3. Can you do nothing?
4. Can you go back to her, and say "let's start over, from this day forward"?
Good luck
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
So... Today was a landmark day/event in my sitch. This will be a long update. I really would appreciate whoever sticks around to read it all. It is somewhat comical... but mostly horrific. Interesting and entertaining nonetheless. Also, please read the phone conversation at the end. W made some interesting comments. Thanks all for continued support. I really need it right now.
Bottom line? I am done. Barring a miracle, my marriage is over.
Call it intuition or whatever you like, but I had a nagging feeling last night that W was with OM. I broke a cardinal rule and did a drive by of her house. There was a car that was parked in front of the neighbor's house. I had never seen it before, but I didn't think anything of it. There were no cars in front of W's house.
When I got home, I began to watch a movie. As I sat there, the car parked at the neighbor's house kept bugging me. I did my best to brush it off as my imagination, but ended up deciding that I would check it out in the morning (this morning).
I woke up at 8 a.m. I knew that W was already at work. SS was home today by himself as he has been suspended yet again. I decided that I would drive to W's neighborhood, call SS and see if he wanted to go to breakfast with me.
I got within a couple of minutes of W's house and called SS. He answered, was very groggy bc my call had awakened him. I asked him if he wanted to go with me to breakfast and he said yes.
I pulled up into W's driveway. The car from the night before was still parked in front of the neighbor's house.
I rang the doorbell. As I waited for SS to answer, I was able to see through the window that W's bedroom door was slightly ajar. When SS opened the door, her bedroom door was shut.
I told SS that I needed to look for something so needed to go in. He said 'what? Where is it?' and I could tell that he was hiding something.
I walked past him and went straight up the stairs to W's bedroom door. It was locked.
Fortunately, it was very easy to unlock from the outside. It took me literally 3 seconds. I walked into W's bedroom. I saw nothing. SS had come upstairs and started making up reasons why he had locked the door. I told him to go to his room and shut the door. He complied.
I walked through the bedroom, opened the closet doors. Still nothing. Went to the bathroom, still nothing.
Finally, as I was going to leave the bedroom, I realized that I hadn't checked the toilet room. You know that 4' x 4' room where you go to take a cr*p.
I checked the door and it was locked. Again, easy as pie to open. AND there he was... OM sitting on the toilet, underwear down at his ankles in the dark.
My recollection of the conversation is somewhat hazy as it happened very fast.
Me: 'wow... what an a**hole you are'
OM: 'ugh, uh... I'm sorry, I'm sorry'
Me: 'Man, you are destroying a marriage, a family... why don't you be a man and do what is right?'
OM: 'I know, I know, I'm sorry. I will leave right now'
Me: 'No, I don't give a sh!t if you leave. But why don't you be a man about all of this? You may think that you are in love with my wife, but she is still my wife. And do you know what you are doing to that little boy in the other room?'
OM: 'I know. I will.'
Me: 'You will what? How old are you man, 19? Do what's right.'
OM: 'I will starting now. I promise.'
I walked away at the point. Went and got SS and left the house. I know that that conversation sounds ridiculous, but OM was sitting on the toilet, with his head down, afraid that he was about to get his a$s kicked.
I was in shock at this point. I drove SS to my house. I sent W a text message as soon as we got there.
Me - 'I love you W. But our M is over. I'm filing for D today. I never wanted that. I still don't, but I can't do this.'
I took a shower while he watched t.v.
When I got out of the shower, a text conversation that went on most of the day began.
W: "You have no right to go to my house without being invited. EVER! No right. How dare you. I am not your possession and you lost me fair and square while you f'd with my heart for 8 years. You have a lot of nerve."
Me" "Ok. I'm sorry for going to your house uninvited. But you don't have to worry about it happening again."
W: "F you you c*c(sucke*! How dare you!!!!!!"
Me: "You can have him W."
W: "Don't tell me what I can have. I can do whatever the F I want."
Me: "Yes you can."
W: "Did you think about SS just now or just your selfish jealousy!!!! F you!!!!!"
Me: "Me?! Seriously W? You are the one that has put SS in this position. I just wanted to take him to breakfast."
W: "You don't show up in MY house unannounced. Ever!"
Me: "I called. But that's not really the point now. At least not for me."
W: "I need to know that SS is okay. Get the F out of my house."
Me: "SS is fine. Will you sign the D papers or do I need to have you served?"
W: "F off"
Me: "I have fought for you W. I have fought for you like I've never fought for anything in my life. But you have betrayed the trust I had in you not to break my heart."
W: "Bullsh!t. You still have your agenda and if I don't comply with your expectations, then you throw me to the curb."
W: "So typical. You are a selfish d!ck. I need to know where SS's meeting is today."
(W and I were suppose to have meeting with SS's school today. Obviously, I did not attend)
W: "You have my kid??!!!!!!!!!"
Me: "Comply with my expectations?? I was willing to be patient and give you all of the time in the world! But not to be f'ing some other guy."
W: "You f'ing d!ck. Take him home now or I will report you to the cops for kidnapping."
Me: "Fine. I will take him home."
* I told SS that W wanted me to take him home. He was disappointed and I think that he was upset. When we got to W's house, I told him that I loved him and that none of this was his fault. I told him to call me if he needs me. He said okay and went inside.
About 30 minutes later, W texted me again.
W: "I left you. I can F whomever I want and it's none of your business if I am or not."
W: "You wanted to work things out and I said I wasn't ready."
Me: "You can Em. That's right. And I can make the choice that I can't take the pain of it. And that is what I am doing."
Me: "I know what I want. I want to be married. And I'm now making the choice to begin looking elsewhere for that."
W: "Poor baby. Your pain!!! Really f'er!! It's all about your pain?? Has it not come to your attention that my pain... the pain that you have caused... is why OM is in my life in the first place. Because you weren't man enough to love me, care for me, and have a life with me."
W: "You created this hell and it's destroyed more than you. You think that this is easy on me?! This affects me too. Being torn between a chance at happiness and being loved or risking going back to our marriage, hoping for the best but fearing the same life of lonliness and pain."
W: "You have no clue how all of this has impacted my life and SS's life. You still only think of yourself."
W: "And don't threaten me you a$$hole. I'm sick of your threats. If you want to file for a D today then go do it."
Me: "I have spent the past 3 months doing everything that I can to show you how I KNOW that I f'd up and how sorry that I am for that. I've told you this before, but you leaving me was the best thing that has ever happened bc it caused me to open my eyes to who I was and who I want to be. I've tried to show you that."
W: "3 months is nothing compared to 7 years. I spent 7 years trying to get you to love me and be a part of my life. Do you know how it feels to know how unwanted and unloved you are for years? No, you don't. But it felt like sh!t. Knowing that you never wanted anything to do with me."
W: "Now you want to fix it and I'm suppose to jump up and down for joy. You are an arrogant b*stard."
Me: "I'm sorry that you have felt 'torn' between a chance at happiness with OM and our M. You no longer need to feel that way. I'm removing myself from the equation W."
Me: "I'm going to begin to move on with my life."
Me: "I KNOW that I was not good to you in a lot of ways W. I own that. As far as expecting you to jump up and down for joy goes, I don't know. I didn't expect things to happen overnight. But you have made it very clear that you have no intention of trying to do anything that would help us heal from everything."
W: "You don't need to begin. You've had your own life since you met me. You've only just started to consider having a life with me, but you can't think of anyone but yourself can you. You are pitiful and I feel bad for the next b!tch you pretend to give a sh!t about."
Me: "I will never repeat the mistakes taht I made with you. The next 'b!tch' in my life is going to get EVERYTHING from me. What I wanted to give to you."
Me: "I understand taht you are still angry and hurt. I really do. I don't even blame you. But I simply can't continue fighting under these circumstances. I think that if you really think about it, you will understand. At least I hope so. I don't hate you. I love you. I always will."
W: "Well, I'm glad that you got something from me. I trained you for some other ho*ker. Hope you're happy now that you've figured it all out.
Me: "I hope you are to W. Really."
W" "F you."
** W then began texting me again about 3 hours later.
W: "I am pressing charges against you for entering my home and taking SS without my permission. You also broke into my room in order to intimidate OM. You had no right."
Me: "SS let me into the home and wanted to go with me. I had no intention of intimidating OM. I didn't even know he was there for sure."
W: "Really. YOu just decided to break into my room and bathroom for fun. SS is not an adult. you know you can't just waltz into someone's home as you please and take their kid without permission."
Me: "I didn't 'break' into your room"
W: "I guess we'll see what the police think about my ex coming into my home while I'm at work, confronting the guy I have been seeing, and taking my son without permission."
Me: "Listen, I'm not going to be drawn into a tit for tat argument with you. I didn't do anything to hurt you W."
W: "What are you psycho! I told you after the wedding that I wanted space. That I didn't want you coming by unannounced or calling SS to locate us."
W: "You are just as crazy as you always have been. You ruined our marriage, not OM"
Me: "No W, I'm not psycho. I do love you and SS though. If that helps explain why I'm upset. I called SS before I came over and asked if he wanted to go get breakfast"
Me: "Go be happy with OM W. I'm not saying or doing anything to stop you. I'm removing our marriage as plan B for you. You have not been fair or honest."
Me: "I don't care one way or the other about OM. He is not worth my breath. I'm not wasting anymore time talking about him. Like I said, you want him, you got him."
W: "I have been honest. I told you we were talking again. I told you I was having a hard time. I told you I wasn't in a place to fix things. You have a lot of nerve accusing me of plan B. That's all your efforts are about. Your f'ing plan B. You blew me off for years, dared me to leave, ignored us, emotionally abused us, and then when I left, you decided you'd rather have us than not."
W: "If you weren't such a selfish f*ck, then I wouldn't be seeing anyone. I'd be home with you, building a life with you. You didn't want that though. YOu wanted space, freedom, porn, ex girlfriends and bed buddies."
W: "Don't you dare blame this on me. You are a f'ing a$$hole and were to stupid to see what you had until it was gone."
Me: "All of that is true. But not over the past few months. And you told me that you needed space and time. That you didn't want to date anyone. That last part was obviously a lie. But it doesn't matter anymore. It just doesn't."
Me: "I didn't blame you when we first began talking about working on our marriage back in February. As hard as it was, I swallowed my pride, recognized my part in causing what happened, and made the decision to move beyond it."
W: "No, that's what you want to believe. I never said I put OM out of my life. And again, it's none of your business."
W: "You are crazy. Once again, you've pointed out that things have to be on your terms and if not, then we can get lost. Same as you've been saying for years. How about you tell me something different."
Me: "This time is different. We have spent 3 months together. At times talking about a future for our marriage and even going to counseling. you have seen that I am dead serious about the things that I have worked to change. Yet you continue to completely disregard the fact that we are married. You can say or think whatever you want to justify your actions W. they are not justified at this point. But that is simply my point of view. You have to live with yourself.... not me. Not now."
Me: "I do NOT want this W! But I REFUSE to live in an open marriage. The last thing in the world that I want is for you and SS to not be a part of my life. I do not want this. I've said it for 6 months. How many times to I have to say it and in how many ways for you to understand that? You are leaving me with no choice at this point. No choice! How could you even respect me if I didn't walk away at this point? How could I respect myself?"
W: "I don't respect you as it is. I haven't forgiven you and that is why I wanted space."
Me: "And I was more than happy to give you space. I understood that."
W: "Oh ok. Just as long as you got to control me in the meantime. right."
Me: "I just didn't realize that give you space and time to figure out if you could forgive me meant that you'd be f'ing someone else in the meantime. Sorry, but I'm not okay with that."
Me: "I know that I can't control you. I'm not even trying to. But I deserved to know so taht I could make decisions regarding my life accordingly. Now I know. And now I'm going to move on. I want to be married. I want a family. I want someone who loves me and wants my love. That is no longer you. I have to accept that and begin to open myself up to finding that person. And I simply need to stop wishing, hoping and working for something that obviously is not going to happen."
W: "You had a family. You had someone who loved you. You have no right to accuse me of f'ing anyone. You don't know what's going on in my life. I'm not f'ing you and I hang out with you sometimes. Me asking for space was because I need time to sort through all of the sh!t you've put me through. Including the last few months. You do not own me and I left you to live my life without the man who didn't want me anyway. Now you're hiring and want another chance, but that doesn't change the fact that I left you as a result of your actions over the years."
Me: "I know W. I don't dispute any of that. What I'm saying is that I'm unwilling to continue fighting for you under these circumstances. It is too painful. I don't think that it is fair to me. It isn't fair to SS. and frankly, it isn't fair to OM. I'm going to let you live your life without me in it. And I'm going to do what I can to heal from all of this and move on."
Me: "I do want to be clear though, I do not want this. Never have"
W: "What you say now is worthless to me. You've hurt me more than you realize obviously. Otherwise you wouldn't feel like I've done you wrong by seeing someone else. You still think that I owe you something. I'm doing things on my terms now Denver, not your's. Even if OM weren't in my life I wouldn't be with you right now. You have too much sh!t to deal with and be honest with yourself about. Your actions today prove that once again."
W: "I had made some decisions about my life, but this changes everything. Go find another wife. I'm sure taht she will be just as unsatisfying as I was. I am taking care of me and SS. Not you. Not OM. Me and SS. That's what matters to me."
W: "You are always thinking that life is greener with another woman. You are a d!ck. go do as u always wanted. go find someone new."
Me: "I want to be very clear W. I do not want anyone else on this planet other than you, my wife. There is no greener grass. there is just grass. There are problems in all relationships. I know that. Bottom line, YOU have made this decision for me."
W: "You made the choice"
Me: "Ok W."
W called me just as we finished up that tex conversation. Again, my recollection is not perfect of everything that was said.
Convo began with a rehash of the above. Lot's of name calling etc. I remained very calm during the entire thing. I kept telling W that this was not something that I had wanted, but that I was done. I told her that the best way to put it is that I am closing the door to our marriage but not locking it. She kept telling me that I expect her to be ready to work on our M on my terms and my timeline. I told her that I have been fine giving her space and time, but that I draw the line with her dating OM's. That I am not going to live in an open marriage. She told me that we no longer have a marriage ... that it is just a piece of paper (something that I had told her a long time ago). I told her that I view it differently. That she was always right to see it as something sacred. Anyway, here are th highlights:
W: "You don't know anything about why OM was at the house"
Me: "I know that he was there all night"
--------
W: "I think that I've made the decision not to have either you or OM in my life"
Me: "Okay. That is your choice."
--------
W: "I told you that I need space and time to figure things out. Don't you understand that?"
Me: "I understand space and time. And W, I'd give you all of the time in the world to figure it out."
W: "Oh, but not if I date other people?!"
Me: "No, that is where my boundary is. I am not okay with that. I will not live in an open marriage. I do not think that you need to date OP to sort through things. It's been 6 months and I haven't."
W: "So what are you asking me to do?"
Me: "I'm not asking you for anything. I don't want anything from you. I'm not trying to convince you of anything and I'm not trying to get you to do anything. I am moving on with my life. I don't want anything from you at this point. I'm shutting the door on our marriage."
----------
W: "I always wanted to be loved by you. And now you want to give that to me and it p!sses me off. After all of the years that I tried, it p!ssed me off that it has taken this to get you to want that."
W: "And I still don't believe it. I think that if I hadn't left you and someone else hadn't caught my attention that you'd still be sleeping on the couch and getting upset with me everytime I did any little thing that you don't approve of.'
Me: "No, that would not happen again. I have learned too much"
W: "CAn't you see why I'm afraid?"
Me: "yes. I understand completely why you are afraid."
---------------------
Me: "I'm not mad. I'm sad. I'm sad that this is the end of our M."
W: "I don't think that we should be using the word marriage."
Me: "Well that is not my point of view. You have no right to tell me how I should view it."
----------------
W: "And if I just take space and don't see anyone else?"
Me: "Um, I don't know. I suppose that if you came to me and said that, I would have something to think about. But again, I'm not asking you for anything. As far as I'm concerned, I am moving on."
SILENCE for a long period of time... I ended the convo. "well, I'm going to go. you are not saying anything."
W: "Okay. Bye."
Me: "Bye"
^^^^^^^
the update from my horrific day is above for those of you who want to read it...
UPDATE... W continued with craziness this evening:
w texted me at around 10:30
W: "have you been stalking me? Why would you text FIL last week and tell him I was dating OM?"
Me: "No. that is not what was said. And I didn't text him."
Me: "But I will assume that is what I would have found had I been."
W: "Really. So what did you say?"
Me: "Why don't you ask him."
W: "I did and that's what I was told. You can assume whatever you'd like. I'm sure you feel better that way."
Me: "Yeah W. I feel great. You should know better than that."
W: "I think that you like to win. That's what your life is about. You blame me and make me look like I've done something wrong so you feel like you win. this time you lost though. You lost big time!"
Me: "This was not about winning for me W. I'm sorry that you feel that way."
Me: "I don't understand why you won't see that I want to save our M more than anything. I really don't."
Me: "I have fought for you like I have NEVER fought for anything. I have put my ego aside and swallowed my pride on things that I never thougt I was capable of. I have looked at myself and my shortcomings in a way that I needed to. yet you refuse to see any of it."
W: "I see your effort but it doesn't change that I don't trust you and I think that you are motivated for selfish reasons."
W: "I don't even feel safe in my own home because of you."
Me: "I know that you don't trust me W. I do. But you haven't given me a chance to prove that you can. I'm not motivated by selfish reasons. I wanted nothing more than to work every day for the rest of my life making up for how I did you wrong in the past. I regret that more than I can ever say in words. There is nothing selfish about it. Other than wanting to have you and SS in my life."
W did not respond. And yes, I said way too much.
BITS Denver
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
you sure do say too much. And Can you please stop apologizing?
It's "worthless" per HER words, and it's not fair, and it's not attractive, and it's not working...
and do you need any more reasons?
geezus rice...
From where I sit, you're not a bad catch.
So knock off the prone position and do what you told that idiot on the toilet...
"Man up", hold your head high and let her stew in her anger...
I hoped you two would 'retreat" after all these bombs but she launches them again, and you take them...why are you guys even talking or texting each other?
either file or don't. But stop taking her calls. Stop all the contact except for ss.
Like I said, he's your way back to her, BUT also, he counts on you and it's the right thing to do anyhow. For now, let her go. Seriously, let her go. She has to feel free to be able to "see" you. Do you get that?
She (and you) need to be free from each other for some amount of time. You're both too in the fog to see.
She cannot see clearly, she's in a fog of anger, and you keep falling on your sword. That OVER validates her anger.
I don't know how much of a jerk you were, but enough already.
She probably IS angry that you seem like a nice guy NOW, b/c some other woman will benefit and that drives her crazy... LET IT DRIVE HER CRAZY...she needs to see you in a new light.
back off...no more talking at all....
Can you do the following, which was of immense help to me... For a chunk of time, say 3 days or a week (preferably a month, but it's you& I'm being realistic)...
SHELVE THE PAIN AND ANGER AND NEED TO TALK...you can't bill her for your time!!
But you do seem to have a need to get the last word in and I recognize that as a trait in MOI...or it's the L in us...point is, shut up, okay?
Just STHU....it's SO not helping your cause...ever....she won't let you get the last word in anyhow!!
Okay so here's what happened to us a few years back. Take what you will from this.
As h was preparing to leave us and the marriage, for the Last Frontier, he had a conference in Palm Springs for 4 days, about 2-3 months before his departure day, which for me was our divorce day.
I saw his pending departure as pretty much a fatal to the m act, on his part...since he'd be living 3000 miles away. A bit much.
H Wanted me and d's to go and have a 'mini vacation with him to Palm Springs. What??
This seemed fake and insane to me. Also felt that it would "reward" h or seem like all was well and that he'd get the wrong impression.
Almost felt that I should always show my pain to him, OR he might think it was alright now, or he'd take advantage, get worse, repeat the behavior, etc. (Like your w??)
Somehow a brilliant divine or DB idea replaced my idiocy and instead, I chose to make the trip a good one for the girls b/c it was going to be our last chance to make some good memories. I wanted this for them. And I wanted to be able to be in the same car/room with h and not discuss decisions, or have any fights or any "talk"...Nothing bad for four days. There was nothing that could not wait those days anyhow.
I thought I would try to give h something to miss. But how? I was so angry and in my mind/heart, I was right. (Well in truth, I WAS right...but that's not relevant to the story)
So for four days I chose to SHELVE THE ANGER...just not deal with it for the 4 days. I figured I could always be mad again later...(sadly, this comforted me greatly at the time )
For four days, I did NOT see his negatives/irritating issues and I simply would NOT think about the future pain of his departure OR the past injuries I had been nursing...
No sarcasm from me (ME!!) and the negatives were simply STOPPED in their tracks and replaced with neutrals or positives. Like instead of thinking "H is a nerd and lecturing again" I saw his intelligence, and felt gratitude for what he was teaching d's.
I just saw him as positively as possible, for FOUR days...and after 2 days, it began to feel kind of true. I began to FEEL more love for him and less crap. HE also began to react differently.
The kids had a great time and I remember Palm Springs so fondly b/c of that. Point is, we got a glimpse of what forgiveness might look like.
Someday maybe you guys can do that. FOR NOW my story's point is the temporary part for you to focus on, the "for ONE WEEK" can you NOT say anything to her?
For ONE WEEK, can you stop all this nonsense? It's really beneath you. AND it does validate her reasons for leaving. It makes you look abusive in her mind.
for SEVEN DAYS can you shelve the crazy interactions, completely, and only speak to SS and NOT about her?
B/C you have to.
You want to look good in her eyes? I don't know if that's possible now. It might be someday after many more months of you NOT reacting to her.
This is a setback. But it reveals her too...she isn't indifferent to you but she is SO angry that I don't believe YOU can change that as much as space and time can...
So let her go. Don't look back for a chunk of time. Be with SS now and then or however you should, and pretend she's in the Austrailian outback.
You might even decide to date, I don't know. But in time she will see you differently. That's a fact. When you step back and leave her alone,
you'll have a better chance. H was 3000 miles away and I missed him. We'd see each other now and then b/c he visited the girls.
Those times are when you'll show the continued 180s and still new you, and in between, you really will have a life so she will not matter as much.
Where the head goes, the heart will follow IF YOU LET It....
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
and stop trying to control how she sees you or your motivations.
Only time will change that IF IT IS POSSIBLE...remember in her mind, she is "righter" if your changes are either not real
or for the wrong reasons.
You can only prove they are real with time...and at some point saying you are only changing for "selfish" reasons will sound as goofy as it is.
But you arguing about it makes it worse.
Truly. I'd laugh at that b/c she's structuring it for failure. You cannot win with the way she sets it up.
So don't argue the point. It plays into her BS and at some level I think she's just frustrated that you are in fact a different man and she'll have to let go of the anger if that's true...
and she NEEDS that anger. She seems addicted to it.
Let her see how it consumes HER and NOT YOU...
by not engaging...
And please do NOT apologize again.
You've been over it. You owned it, you apologized for it, repeatedly, and you changed it.
Yet she still complains. Fact is she likes being angry. Makes her feel right. She wants to be STUCK...inertia, victimhood, whatever...
She won't see that, maybe ever. But if she can, IF SHE CAN SEE IT, it'll be by you backing away.
I happen to think she loves you. But that does NOT mean you should be married.
You need to back off so she can see you in a way that feels safe and that means distance. Back off. GAL for real. DETACH DETACH and DETACH...
you know this. So do it.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Wow! I'm sure you have some very conflicted feelings right now. I know it can be cathartic to get everything out like that, but both of you said things that are going to be hard to 'take back'.
I hope you take 25's advice and drop the rope/go dark. I wrote a letter to my W a week and a half ago (in my thread) and haven't spoken to her or seen her since. In my case, with the ongoing OM and cake-eating, it was the best thing I could have done for myself. The darkness has be *so* helpful to me, I think it would do the same for you. SS complicates that a bit, but I'm sure you could come up with a solution that minimizes contact with W.
Me 43 W 38 M 5 T 7 SD20 S15, S13 with 1st W ILYBNILWY June 2010 Separation/Bomb July 2010 Divorce Feb 8, 2011
Just wanted to let you know that I've been thinking about you all night and praying for you. The kind of pain your feeling right now I wouldn't wish on anyone. Just please, try to take this time to focus on you. I know, KNOW how hard that is to do when we're hurting.
I'd take away your pain if I could.
(((Hugs)))
"Everyone you meet has baggage. Find someone who loves you enough to help you unpack." ¤Formerly DelinquentGurl¤
