2step, that is great man. I mean seriously. Really great convo. She said a TON there and I think you did a pretty good thing. I'm betting she went to sleep feeling pretty good about you. She may even be having second thoughts - not to get you too pumped up though:)
Thanks for sharing the entire conversation. Now, don't fall back! Stay the course. You said some deep things there and I think she heard them. She also got a lot of stuff off her chest in a safe environment - I'm telling you man, that will seriously pay off. That's exactly where my W was.
You should definitely be proud!
m 40 w 38 married 15 together 18 d11, d8 bomb 12/19/10 2nd bomb 3/30/11 COMPLETELY DONE
“Even when you were here to visit you did not get it. I was telling you and you weren’t getting it. You wanted to hear yourself talk about getting back together and you were not listening to me. I was telling you”
This is what you should listen to.
I understand where all you guys are. I really do because I was there.
This is really hard to hear but telling them you have changed and saying how many things in the M you own up to just reinforces why they left.
Do they feel guilt? yup you can see it up there in your convo.
Actions, not words.
Space, not constant contact by you.
I see your W as conflicted right now and that is a good thing.
Let her work it out.
The anger? Man my W told me I was living a fantasy life compared to her.
Very angry.
So is your W.
My goal is to some day be the person my dog thinks I am
i think gritter is very wise in his advice (thank you, you just helped me too) 2step you are doing so well keep it up and that she is conflicted is a very good thing she is on the fence and let your actions bring her down on your side
2, Alot of what you said to your W is what I said to my H in that infamous letter. I doubt I will get as good a return as you, but I needed to say those things to him just like you said to your W.
Grit always has great advice. As I have stated, he is a straight shooter and I really like that. No false hope with him. He keeps us on the reality wagaon! I think you have been doing a great job - keep it going. It'll be nice to have at least 1 friend who will make it.
BITS
M: 48, H: 42 Kids: 0 T: 20 yrs M: 16 yrs. (H's 1st, my 2nd) WAS/MLC: 12/7/09-I'm not the wife HE deserved Came home per L: 12/26/09, Left again: 2/6/10 Served: 10/21/10, D FINAL: 6/15/11
Wow, took me a while to get caught up on all that's gone on in a few days!
I agree with TrueGritter. I think it's great you got the chance to say all that but I think you need to be prepared for the fall out. She said how many times "why couldn't you have done it sooner?" She's going to be angry. You finally get it and you're happy and moving on but she's hurting and grieving the marriage and now you turn into a great guy after she finally got up enough nerve to leave? How dare you! Now, you're making her reconsider everything and you know how WAS' hate that! If she calls again (only if! Don't keep pursuing her!), angry, says that statement again... apologize, a lot. Tell her you're an idiot that it took you so long to figure it out. Tell her that it's the biggest regret of your life not being the H she deserved. Tell her that you hope someday she can forgive you. Let her be angry.
But don't pursue her! Let her make the next move.
Me - 38, 2nd M, no living children, 1 forever 6 yr old boy H - 44, 3rd M, twins 16
Dating 4/07 M 10/08 Bomb #1 12/10 Bomb #2 1/11 Bomb #3 12/11
Some amazing baby steps there! Some amazing conversations.
Glad you are finally at the anger stage! That's great that she's doing the "too little too late" and "why couldn't you do this before?"!!!!!
It's just a phase. If you play this right, she will move through it and you can continue to build your friendship. Be patient. You are doing amazing work, keep moving forward!
Michelle - Proud DR Rockette S: 28JUL07, D'd: 29OCT09 http://tinyurl.com/27j9qo2
W “hey sorry about the way I got off the phone. I hope I didn’t seem rude I just couldn’t see”
M “oh that’s ok I heard the wipers screeching I figured it was better”
W “how are you doing?”
M “I am good. How is your mom doing?”
We talked back and forth for a few minutes she told me about the TV she just bought her mom and about a SB party she went to and about the weather. Small talk nothing important really. I told her about possibly buying a house in the future and the fact that I would be getting promoted at work and that I was thinking about buying a TV to put in the room.
Her response…
W “isn’t that wonderful. You get promoted at work, thinking about buying a house and getting a plasma for your room. Yeah. Wonderful. Life is great for you”
M “Well all in due time. I wouldn’t say wonderful. I mean it’s not great but I am moving along”
W “I am going to need help putting my moms tv on the stand I bought for her. It’s too heavy. I should of just taken yours. I paid for it!.”
M “Anger is a great motivator. As angry as you were you could of probably picked it up and loaded in the truck. Just think of me when you are at your moms and the anger will give you the strength to pick up the TV and place it on the stand lol”
W “I should of tipped your over lol”
We talked for about 30 minutes and then said our goodnights. I came back to post walk around the house for a little bit and decided I was not done for the night. This probably goes against DB rules but my W love language is words of affirmation so I decided I would call her back. She answered the phone and this is how it went.
M “ I just wanted to call you and let you know that I am sorry for the way I have hurt you. You did your part on the M and I failed you. You were a great W and a great friend to me and I stopped being your friend and for that, I am sorry. I would of walked through the gates of hell for you. Never believe you are not a great woman because you are. I hope that I always see you the way I see you today. That is all I wanted to say. I hope you have a good night and a great week”
W “Thank you. I appreciate that very much. I hear you say that but I am a little skeptical. I hope you understand. Why do you feel you understand me so much better now than before, how did you get to that point”
M “Oh man. What time do you have to go to work again? Lol. I tell you W it has been a long and painful journey. It has taken me some time and a lot of grief. I understand why you left. I understand the feeling you felt and know why you felt them. I wouldn’t change anything that has happened up till now. It was necessary, at least for me. I had to go on this journey. When I started all I wanted was to win you back. I had to have you back right now because the pain was too great. What I realize now is that I will be ok with whatever you decide because I have changed the focus from winning you back to saving my sanity. In the process I have experienced growth but I had to suffer to get here. If you would not have left nothing would of changed because I was not listening to you. Once you took the action of leaving I had two choices 1. Continue with the status quo and just say I hate you for leaving. It was all you. 2. Take a hard look at what happened and take the time to learn about you. Choice two was the hard one but it was the one I chose. I am glad I did” W “I am glad you have done this. I wish you would have done it sooner. Everything I did was wrong. You were every body’s best friend except mine. I told you from day one two things never take me for granted and just tell me things would be ok when I was feeling down. You did neither. We went to the MC and he told us to grade our M and you said A and I said C and you still didn’t get it. I was doing what you needed in the M so you could feel loved but you stopped doing it for me. I lost my best friend you stopped caring about me. All you did was criticize me and put me down and then you even stopped telling me you loved me. You would say it if I said it. Yeah you would go to the MC but that is where your effort ended. Because you were such a man that you did not have to do anything I was the problem”
The whole time I acknowledged and agreed with what she was saying, not just to DB but because it was true, at this point she began to cry.
W “ I am so glad you have made changes. I wish you would have made them sooner. It is so sad that you made those changes now“
M “I know. Me too. I was putting diesel in a gas engine thinking the tank was full. I don’t know how this will end but I am better person for it. I guess I failed to see what a real M was made of and it is a lot of work. This is what those people who are M 30 yrs figured out. I think about if I could have seen this sooner what a great M we could have had with your personality and mine if I would have been just 10% better we would be having this convo in person but you don’t deserve 10% you deserve it all. I would of loved to have this convo in person maybe one day we can. I went it about it all wrong I started from the front backward. I realize I should have gone through my emotions first and worked on myself but I wanted the pain to stop and was blinded”
W “Even when you were here to visit you did not get it. I was telling you and you weren’t getting it. You wanted to hear yourself talk about getting back together and you were not listening to me. I was telling you”
M “I know you are right. I guess I was desperate. Now I see things a little clearer. I understand that whatever happens is going to happen and I can’t do anything about it but I am ok with the outcome because I believe that I have come out of this a better person.”
At this point I told her it was late and started to say goodnight. She talked a few more minutes but then started to tear up and said “yeah its late good night and thank you H for calling back and saying those things”
I know this is a long post but it was a good convo. I hope you guys don’t fall asleep reading it. A lot was said and she did some complaining about me which is ok and I listened and also did a lot of talking but mostly it was reinforcing. I did not defend myself or argue my point of view. At what point she said “I don’t know why you acted that way or said those things” I just responded by saying “I don’t know. My journey was to get to know you. You will begin your journey when you are ready”
I needed that convo this week. I really wanted to get this off my chest. Going dark on my W will serve two purposes one is reinforce the fact that I don’t care and not give her a chance to vent.
Thoughts………………………………….
Man 2Step, just saw this update. That was a GREAT conversation! You did such a wonderful job DBing. And you used the perfect words. You and I are so similar in how we ended up here it just amazes me.
Can I get you to fly out here to Denver, put a mask of me on, and go to dinner with my W tomorrow night? I have a feeling that that conversation is going to be VERY similar. I just hope that I can answer her with the same heart, conviction, and truth that you did with your W.
I'm going to read through this post again before I meet with my W tomorrow.
BITS Denver
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
I have to say... this sitch is probably the only reason I haven't given up hope. I look back and realize how many opportunities my wife gave me to validate but I was way too defensive. I did own the problems but I always followed with an explanation which came of as not validating. I put myself in a bigger hole but I see you diving out and I know that I can too.
BITS
M 11/11/00 Bomb end of September 2010 Filed 11/9/10
2step, Maybe you should be the "Captain of the BITS?" That was amazing. I hate to say it, but if I even get to the point where I can say those things to my W, I think I am going to dictate your speech word for word. I don't think it could be said any better. What scares me is that my W doesn't even seem to be anywhere near where your W is right now. But, watching you work gives me hope. I think you should be promoted to "Major" for that effort.
Very nice work and very, very motivating to an individual like myself that has a very long road ahead.
Go to bed proud tonight!!
BITS never walk alone!
FOBD
Me: 39 W: 36 T: 15 yrs M: 9 yrs S: 09/10
So you can get on with your search, baby And I can get on with mine And maybe someday we will find, That it wasn't really wasted time...
