Making changes in yourself can be really hard, especially when you don't see any corresponding changes in your spouse. That's why it's so important to make changes that are good for you, regardless if your spouse stays/returns.
You are right, thank you for reminding me I need to forgive H.I guess my being angry here and there is reverting back to the past and that blame game nonsense. Yes, I need to be the best I can be NOW while I am in still in the M home.
I sure hope things work out for you.It sounds like things are in a cooling off stage-allows for some of the intensity to wane.
I agree- M and being single are both hard, each has its own challenges. When I was single ( for 5 years post divorce), I was happy. At times I was lonely. I do remember being very happy when I remarried. The first few years were good.
I can imagine how hard it is not asking your spouse if has seen a lawyer. The fear of the unknown is a tough situation to stay calm about. Our heads tend to focus on the "what ifs". It sounds like you are doing remarkably well though.
It sounds as if you are re-thinking your R and if it meets your needs.I have been doing that also.I think it is important we are clear to ourselves we are doing DB and 180's for the right reason, not just out of fear.
Having goals is a must for us during these stressful times. I keep a journal, it helps me focus on my goals.
I feel better about myself now (realize I am not a "bad" person, just lost myself there for awhile), and know no matter what happens with M, I will be okay and a wiser person.
I no longer am in denial that I did some pretty rotten things in the M. No infidelity, but negative behaviors that cut H probably as much as an affair would. The things we do to the people we profess to love! Crazy isn't it. A wise woman recently reminded me many spouses treat strangers better than they do their spouses. Sad, but true.
I am an Engineer too. I have to say that it's a part of my own problems. Like many here before me wonderfully outlined the Engineer's thinking I will not try to outdo that.
In my case my W also is a logical and rational person (when not drunk). That fact completely disabled us to talk about our feelings for 13 long years. Had that happened I won't be in a mess that I am in right now.
We thought that when two minds are alike, there is no need of verbal communication. WRONG!!!
Can you flesh out what you meant "I have to say that it's( being engineer), a part of my own problems"??? What part of being an engineer and having an engineers mindset create conflict in your M? Don't mean to pry, so if you'd rather not answer, it's A-okay.
My father is a retired engineer-I have really started noticing how my mother relates to my dad's often controlling, bossy, analytical, logical mindset. She doesn't sweat the small stuff. Too bad I wouldn't have noticed this years ago. I do now though.
You mentioned W drinking.That is another layer on a troubled M.
Not to be political but like Winston Churchill once said "if you are not liberal at the age of 20 you have no heart. If you are not conservative at the age of 40 you have no brain. "
What I mean by that in here is that logic and rationale always dominated my thinking and I despised people who used their feelings to express themselves. They always arrived at wrong conclusions. At least in my world.
When I met my W I felt connection immediately because of the clear thinking and no drama with emotions. Sure we felt love but it was a calculated and logical result of our own mutual attraction towards each other.
Now looking back that logic has driven us apart. The destruction of our R is nothing but irrational.
I don't know if that's what you asked for.
There are deep feelings in logical people. They may not be in the surface but they're there. If you are not one of those people and your H is you need to try to think like he does to penetrate through that shield. It has to be a logical path that he would understand.
I'm typing from the phone so forgive me misspellings.
I can see how two people being logical in a M could cause a problem, just as one person being logical and one being emotional causes problems. Balance must be the answer. R's sure are complicated.
My H seems to despise people who are emotional. All during our M, I was very emotional, H is not wired that way. Very logical and analytical. H always noted my emotional side and said nothing good comes from being emotional. I won't apologize for being emotional, just wish I would have controlled and expressed my feelings in a more positive way.
Speaking of emotions, since the bomb dropped and with doing DB/180, I am not allowing much emotion to seep in these days. I am sort of numb I guess- afraid to feel much these days.I am trying to be businesslike in my communications with H. He seems to like that style. Is safer for him.
Tomorrow H is going to bring up seeing a lawyer, so I have to detach and handle myself in an emotionless manner. I refer to not being emotional as "divorcing" myself from my feelings. Right or wrong, that is my method right now.
Thanks for the insight.I hope all works out for you.
I read many of your posts and I am so sorry you are going through this "hell on Earth". We all need the support we can provide each other-I am here for you.
Thank you! Sorry I missed this- I usually don't look for messages to me on other people's threads and clearly forgot to put a notify tag on your thread so I lost track of it!
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Thank you for the support. The timetable for my move out of the house, ( H owns house), per H is November, after Thanksgiving.I am having surgery end of Sept and H says I should be healed and ready to leave by November.My usual reaction would have been "I'll leave when I'm darn well ready". Now, since using the DB methods, I am agreeable with everything. I make my case when I need to in our bi-weekly "meetings", but I am calm, pleasant, SAFE to talk to. The way I see it, alot can happen between now and November. Time is our ally.
Interesting, we have a similarity in that I need to move out by around then, too. I certainly hope you'll be able to be on your own by then physically- is there anyone you can stay with if you need to at that point?
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With that said, I agree with you- it is hard to be in limbo, but it gives us time to become wiser, stronger and healthier emotionally before we separate or D. In the event we all do get to the D stage, we will be able to know we really really tried to save our marriages. Time allows us to discover who we really are underneath all the anger, fear, neediness, etc. We will be better people because of DB techniques. While in limboland, I feel we just need to do the DB every day, pat ourselves on the back for staying calm and focused, and move forward, wherever that takes us. It is scary, and I feel scared and afraid several times each day of what the future holds for me. BUT at least since I have been doing DB, I do feel more in control of MY destiny and that is so powerful! One not so great thing is that I was laid off from my job in April this year!! I am just taking it one step at a time.
I'm sorry about the job but that's wonderful to hear that DB is empowering you! So are you financially dependant on H now? How's the job outlook? I agree with you that in a way, the limbo time can be useful- to gather records, take steps towards being on our own, consult the Ls as needed, etc. I'm both benefitting from and dying a little each day with it as my hope fades. Not even sure I'm DBing anymore, more like moving towards acceptance and trying to face my fears.
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Please just remember not to focus on what you did "wrong", but rather focus on what you are doing "right".
Take care and be good to yourself every day, you deserve it.
Thank you again. You too. One thing I can definitively say is that, while I've always known I was tough, I had NO IDEA how strong I really am until this thing hit me. I have discovered I can weather a lot, take a LOT, withstand torrants of ranting and anger and calmly walk away and (mostly) shake it off. At first that sounds "weak", but it's not- I have the power over him when I just sit there and observe and let the stuff deflect off of me. It makes me feel stronger to be able to say I didn't sink to his level. Keeping my goals in sight helps me immensely in this- to protect and help DD thrive and feel loved, to not let him beat me down, to come out of this with my integrity intact and hold my head high, doing what's best for me and D. If an action doesn't involve doing one of those things then I try not to do it. I've learned to compartmentalize- something I've never been able to do before but which is now essential to survival.
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Hi NB,
How are you?
Hanging in there. Had a nasty week last week and am frustrated I can't post as many details as I want here. Are you on the alt? If you feel comfortable, please post what your name is there so I can find you. I post MUCH more there in the way of details!
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I wanted to add a few more things about myself since you kindly asked me to when you responded to my first posting.
Second marriage for both H and I. 14 years M. No kids for me, H has a 38 year old daughter, one 4 year old granddaughter. Daughter and granddaughter are apples of H's eye.
Problems with stepdaughter, has H wrapped around finger.Bone of contention for me. I made matters worse last time she visited (July 2010) and spilled hot cereal on my new leather recliner I paid for. I told her how she needed to act in my house, calmly.H didn't approve and didn't support me in this. H told me years ago if I get between he and his daughter or family I'd lose..then a few days after SD visit he dropped the bomb.
Wow. I have no experience with blended families, but I imagine it's tough. It seems like in our our 1st M's we transfer our allegiance from our family of origin to our spouses, then kids, if we have them. But in a 2nd M can you ever choose/be loyal to your spouse over your previous family? That's a tough one and I'm sorry there was even an issue over it.
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We live in his home, I have no financial claim on his home. So I will be moving out in November if all goes according to H timetable. I do feel the spouse who stays in the home has it easier in a split, as they are around comforting and usual surroundings. I guess those of us who will be moving out to a new place will just have to find comfort in knowing we finally arrived at the end of the guessing and waiting. Being in Limboland is not easy, but as I said in previous reply, it does give us time to use DB and see where that takes us.
Very similar to me. At first I was resentful about the house (we have a bizarre and seemingly unfair situation I won't go into - logically it should be half mine...), but I decided to try to let it go. D will still get to live there some of the time. I will get to choose how I decorate, not clean up after anyone but D and myself in my new place, etc. The end of the guessing and waiting will be a relief almost at this point.
I've got no advice on the engineer- it's probably less an engineer thing and more of his is the type of personality that is attracted to things like engineering, but that's not very helpful either, is it?
I still don't have a good grasp of the details- but maybe there aren't many more- I mean, did he ever try to work through any of the issues with you? Go to MC?
You can always visit me over on my thread too - linked below.
My H seems to despise people who are emotional. All during our M, I was very emotional, H is not wired that way. Very logical and analytical. H always noted my emotional side and said nothing good comes from being emotional. I won't apologize for being emotional, just wish I would have controlled and expressed my feelings in a more positive way.
So there you go. You understand perfectly how he's wired. Now do 180 as you suggested, put aside your emotions and act logically. He will notice that.
Is there someone you can stay with also when you move in November?Do you know why your H picked November?
Yes, I could stay with my parents or oldest brother. I am hesitant to do that as I really don't want them involved, plus I'd still be in limbo. As you pointed out, that is very hard. H is suggesting either I rent an apt or possibly buy a condo with my separate/saved cash.I really don't know yet what I will do.
H is very curious about my 180. Twice he has said he notices I am calm, positive and appear happy. H asked me today "how" was feeling.I said I really didn't want to get into discussing emotions. H was surprised by this reply. I did tell him this M wasn't working for me either and that we both need to be free to be our true selves. H said yes, when we blame each other we aren't our real selves and if we are angry we cannot ever have a new good life. I worry that by saying these types of things, I am giving H signal I want out. Agreeing with H is the right thing to do, but it is scary too.
Our meeting today was all business. It's hard, but I got through it.I was businesslike also. H is not emotional and is all about making lists.I realize this is how H controls his emotions. H's emotions are carefully controlled. I have been seeing a bit of a crack in the tough, cold veneer.
I am financially dependent on H at this time. I receive unemployment but it isn't much compared to my real salary when working. If only I were working it would be much easier!! I am 55 and was thinking before the bomb dropped, of retiring. The job hunt hasn't turned up much. I will keep on looking and something WILL pop.I have hip replacement surgery Sept 27th, so really cannot start working anyway (this is why I am still in the house with H, he is allowing me to have surgery on his medical ins. before I move out), until I am healed and have moved.
I was thinking yesterday, that this has been quite a year!! 1.Lost job in April 2.Bomb dropped July 20th. "Separated" but still at home 3.Moving in November unless H wants me to stay and I agree
I like what you said about being strong, NB. WE are sure that, my friend.We never really know how tough our crust is until these types of experiences test us.We both has risen to the challenges. I am very proud of you!!!!!
It is so healthy for you that you remain calm when H yells, and rants. YOU will always have your self respect.
What is the "alt " you mentioned???
Yes, H and I did the old type of MC.It only made things worse. Have you tried MC?? I think SBT is the answer- if a M can indeed be saved, this is how it will be.
I hope I answered some of your questions.
Please write when you can. I enjoy keeping in touch with another woman warrior!! Let's both focus on ourselves and you, of course, your DD.
