Dude....are you kidding me???? Look, whatever you are saying to your "live-in wife", you are only digging your hole deeper and re-enforcing her urge to get out of dodge. Speaking the truth is great...honesty is the best policy...but...what you are telling her, you are NOT getting her back. You are not spicing up your love life/intimacy, ....whatever you think you are saying and thinking in your mind....I don't know....she is not going to buy it.
Good luck with your approach to this sitch....and if you come out on the other side smelling like roses....please...PLEASE write a book on it!
BTW, my girlfriend is Canadian...she is still shaking her head...
I haven't gone to tell her that I don't find her beautiful by any plan. She brought up in her dialogue about sex her feelings of being unattractive to me.
In mine about a discovered quality, I was praising her willingness to share her desires and open up more. I called her beautiful to me. Five months ago, certain of D, she wanted to know why. I cited my lack of attraction because she refused to take care of herself (ie eat, see the doctor for recurrent ear infections, get a haircut, etc) or buy nice clothes for herself (she worries a lot about money). She's still feeding on that revalation that was somewhat obvious.
Beauty doesn't make attraction on its own for me. Attraction is chemical, the right timing, mood, etc. I've also discovered that attraction is emotional.
My letters start and end warmly, and I always include a reminder that my love has started to grow.
I'm sure her self-esteem is part of this issue. My IC said that good self-esteem stays more or less stable when life goes through regular ups and downs. Bad self-esteem moves with the ups and downs. I think she's feeling down. She mentioned that she looked in the mirror and said, "I'm 35, why do I look 45?"
So if I'm not looking to say it, how does she know? She directly asks! I can't lie, and don't try to. I do avoid some topics, but that's as far as I go...dropping a few details here and there.
It's almost 1am, I guess I should be trying to sneak into the bed she's in...
I'm thinking maybe you can say that you didn't really say what you meant. It's not true that you don't find her attractive. You do find her attractive. The proof is the children and your desire for her both as a wife and a lover. But you think that she could make herself more attractive by taking care of herself. I'm thinking of the before and after pictures of women who got makeovers in the women's magazines. They weren't unattractive before, but going to the hair stylist, and the make up artist, and putting on designer clothes made the most of their beauty. And then the magazine takes a picture and puts it next to the "before" picture, and everyone says "Wow!" You think she could enhance her beauty by doing those things.
I, as a woman, would not be insulted by that. Anyone else have any thoughts?
Thats a tough one OTM. I think you really need to work on that physical attraction bond. Mentally. Desire is very important as well. There has to be something that you find attractive. Look for it and begin to think about it and smile. And build this up in your mind. Then just expand from there. And start some research on this. A great 180 for you to overcome.
I could not love a woman as my wife if I was not attracted to her. Physically , mentally and emotionally. They are all in the equation.
Flowers always make people better, happier, and more helpful; they are sunshine, food and medicine for the soul. unconditional love is awesome!
Man I am sorry to hear your set back there. Again I feel guilty about how well we are doing.
Remember from the weekend, love is a choice. It does not magically appear.
As I had said in my original post you can't fall in love with someone you are simply sitting on a bus with or in a coffee shop together.
I would have to say my wife made the choice to love again and then her attraction to me awakened.
It was and is, night and day based on the choice to love and the choice to give it a chance for a myriad of reasons.
And I agree with Lotus, as usual, you do find her attractive, no one forced you to marry her and have kids with her. If she was hideous even the somewhat unique courtship would not have developed.
TBL now equals "Toward Better Love" M-44 W-42; 2 kids; married 11 years 1st bomb 10-08, reconcile 12-08 2nd bomb 8-09, moving toward reconcile 3-7-10
TBL, don't feel guilty! Feel proud of your efforts. To some extent, you reap what you sow. If I had dealt with this years ago, she would not be feeling as bad as she does. I may have left the R and never got here had I tried in the past, so I consider it a test from God. I'm trying to pass despite having question 1-11 wrong...
Lotus/CB - thanks for your POV~
I'm thinking maybe there is a way to put a spin on it. I do NOW feel attracted for being with her physically, so I got to think about that. I really wasn't though...just desires to do something. My W called it 'duty'. I think I was kinder than that, but whatever.
I'll put some more thought to what you said - she is still going to RV, and has backed down on the separation idea (thank God!)
I, as a woman, would not be insulted by that. Anyone else have any thoughts?
Many women need to feel that their spouses find them attractive, even after years of marriage; saying "I do" does not seal the deal for all time.
I can understand how OTM may not feel attracted to his wife, especially right now. But you saying "sorry, I just don't find you attractive" would be like would be like her telling you "sorry, but I think you're a crappy father and can't take care of your family". Even if it were true, who wants to hear that? No one wants to be torn down, especially by someone they care about.
Lotus has a good point; "Clarify" what you meant when you said that. Make encouraging suggestions on how she can do better. Compliment her when she makes the effort to dress better.
And then give it time; no one can change their habits, for good, overnight. Even if she makes an effort, she may backslide from time to time.
Me: 44, Wife: 39 M: 17 years T: 20 years Bomb on 08/25/09 1/13/10: MC started 1/28/10, 2/8/10: More bombs 8/28/10: Wife moved out No talk of D, no movement
I really do hear everyone insisting I must have had some physical attraction. Consider this: - Never had any sex before marriage, (nor dated) - I like sex - Was 22...pretty close to peak desire - Never had sex often, kids product of high fertility - Except for one b/w picture, I never got to see her full face. I only sat to "court" her once, and it was the weirdest thing cause I remember it feeling like an interview to see if she really was OK to move to Canada. - etc, etc.
I have been trying to make positive comments about her appearance, but if I tried to lie I would be easily caught, so I don't. It has to be a full and genuine feeling. Last week, and twice this week, I've found ways to intro the idea she's beautiful (honestly), thinking about how other's see her and she sees herself.
I'm trying to not repeat the comments of the past, and I am avoiding the topic to some extent. Our R isn't strong enough. I TOTALLY understand your points on how that must have hurt her. I didn't ever think that it would be a M destroyer to acknowledge the lack of desire, though. I hope it won't be.
I know I play the cultural card a lot, but it really is an issue for me. FA's right - that isn't the way to win my W. When I first said it, I wasn't trying to. Back in Oct, I was justifying why a D was inevitable.
I really did NOT love her. I know every sees that as crazy, but I really never did. Whenever we got a bit closer, something came up and I had no tools to deal with it.
Now, I have some tools, and some growing love. She's finally, after 11 years, telling me assertively how she feels about things more often. The first time I felt complete forgiveness for some of our past issues was on Tuesday.
If anyone has ideas, some questions because while I didn't bring the topic up since RV, she's unlikely to drop it.
1. Should I be mainly aiming for forgiveness for the comment about her appearance & make honest excuses for saying it, or for making positive comments that are honest but perhaps small to make her feel beautiful?
2. I have started to focus on the clothes and say 'you look beautiful' meaning her in the clothes. Do you feel it is rude to ignore that I find her physically beautiful but not attractive to me?
3. I think that as we connect and I find love for the first time in the marriage, it is possible I could start seeing something that really gets me going. Perhaps with her IC, she might understand why it bothers her, and then find happiness with me knowing I'm attracted to being with her body despite not being head over heals for it. So, is it reasonable to ask her to give me a few months to screw my head on straight and see if an attraction develops over time?
4. We haven't cancelled the D plan yet; I'm waiting to see if I can maintain my love that is brand new for a few more weeks. (are my emotions real or temporary). Should I reconcile again with her even though we've had a failed reconciliation in January, or wait until our R is more stable in a month?
This is not the worst thing someone has said during the troubled times of their lives. People have come back from worse things, and dwelling on it doesn't help. Have you seen the play "Wicked"? The main character is the Wicked Witch of the West, and she is green. bright green. But the handsome leading man falls in love with her, and he says, ""Maybe I'm brainless, maybe I'm wise, but you've got me seeing through different eyes. Somehow I've fallen under your spell..." The eyes of love are different eyes. You were not seeing her through the eyes of love. Now you do. End of story.
