I don't know how many here have followed my story, but it has gotten to such an odd place, I don't know how much DB principles apply anymore. I'd really appreciate the input of some of the DB experts. Here are my previous threads:
After my recent talk with my W, she has been reaching out to me in various ways. She initiated a couple very friendly texting "conversations", of the type I might have with someone I'm dating. The first started with her letting me know she was watching a movie we used to watch together, and wanted to know if I remembered it, and the second was when we were having a thunderstorm, and she texted to let me know she was nervous about the power going out.
A couple nights later I broke one of my rules, that of never initiating texting her without a childcare related reason, and I initiated a texting convo myself. She had recently sung a lullaby over speakerphone to my daughters while they were in my care, and I was touched, so I learned how to accompany the song on guitar. I texted her and told her I was touched by her singing, I learned the song on guitar, and I thought it would be fun to try it together. She replied very positively, thanking me for my compliment, was excited to try it together, and asked for my suggestions on other lullabies to sing.
I have expressed concern and frustration about how difficult our separation was going to be financially, and she has given me the best separation deal any of my divorced friends have ever heard of. They are in shock. She is treating me with so much caring and compassion, and I don't know what to make of it. Is it guilt? Is it love? Why would she be so concerned about me in the ending of our M? If she cares that much, why does she want to end the M? Talk about confusing!
When we were M, I was in charge of her business web site, and I've previously told her it's her responsibility now, but she had a pressing need to make a small change to it, so she asked if I would. I said I would, but that I didn't want to feel taken advantage of, so I said she had to repay me by either taking me out to a movie, or making me a pot of her chili, which I very much miss. I wanted to make her make a choice as to whether go out with me or take a pass. She replied and said she'd do both, and she referred to us going to the movie as a date, something she has not done since the day she said she was leaving me, almost a year ago.
Ok, if that was all of it, then it would all be good, but of course here's the kicker. She's still totally wrapped up in an long distance A with OM in another country. Worse yet, she's with him right now. I went to visit my parents with the kids, and she went to visit him. To add to the strangeness, the morning I left with the kids, she texted me several times, telling me she hopes I have a good time, asking if the kids were excited, if we were on time to the airport, etc. I almost texted her back and said "W, if you wanted to come with us, why didn't you ask?" but I held back.
Before I left, I sent her an e-mail giving my final ideas on our separation agreement, and she replied agreeing with most of what I said, thanking me for doing it, then closing by asking "How are you doing this? And doing the texting, etc? Nevermind, no need to answer." What a ridiculous thing to do, ask a question, then tell me to nevermind, rather than just backspace over the question before sending the message!
The first day I was at my parents house, she called and left a message on my cell phone. She was crying and asked if I would have the kids call her. She has since called or texted every day we have been here. The kids also told me she asked them to ask me if I would go with them to a local festival when we get back from our trips. It's like she's pretending I don't know where she's going!
I guess you all get the general idea. So what the h*ll is going on??? Should I even be DBing at this point? Should I make her choose him or me? Should I wait for her to come to me? She is with OM right now as I type this!! This is seriously screwed up! My friends are telling me to STAY AWAY, until she makes a CLEAR DECLARATION of what she wants. I get that, but I also think time spent with me is increasing her feelings toward me.
Sounds like she is beginning to see that her family life wasn't so bad afterall. The day may come when she wants to get back together. I'd recommend that you keep doing what you are currently doing. When she expresses remorse for leaving and wants to get back together, I recommend that you go to a Retrouvaille weekend together. That will make your choices very clear to both of you.
While I have not read your previous sitch's, I have to pretty much agree with Sara. Future, I gotta say, "Keep doing what you are doing". I am jealous. FML.
First rule: Do what works. You are doing what works, so I'd continue it. Small positive doses of you.
Unfortunately, I think the long distance thing is lonely and frustrating for her, and you are an outlet. When it implodes, I think you'll be the first person she runs to. I know that being second choice is difficult to swallow, but if/when she does come running, you can set the ground rules. BUT, you have to personally be in a place where you can take her or leave her. You have to be able to say "No", if she wants to just come back no questions asked and no work on her part. Are you at that point? If not, work towards it.
You cannot be lonely if you like the person you're alone with. Dr. Wayne Dyer
That's the hard part of DBing, on the one hand you're dedicated to saving your M, on the other hand, you have to be willing to let it go even if your spouse says they want to come back, if they aren't willing to take responsibility for their actions and work toward fixing the damage.
In my case, yeah, the whole second best thing is something I think about and it troubles me. She will need to do some serious convincing if she wants me to believe she really wants to be with me, and not because OM is so far away and wouldn't move here. There is more history and complication than that though, and I know it. In a way, I was first choice and I blew it. She had her chance with OM long ago and soundly rejected him, while she pursued me like crazy when she met me. Only after our M buckled under the weight of 3 kids in 4 years, an endless fixer-up house project, medical problems, and financial difficulties did she decide to give OM another chance. Kind of pathetic for him in a way. Does he not see how she has run from all her problems and responsibilities? She still tells me she grieves every day for the life she wanted to have with me. I wonder if OM knows that? So if we somehow can find a way to reconcile, I think I will be able to believe I am first choice in her heart again. It'll take time and work though.
Thanks Phoenixdeux, I do need to be in a place where I can truly see my life as totally fine without her before I am equipped to face that decision. I know that, and I'm working on it. I'm most of the way there. We're all having a great time at my parents house, and I only feel sorry for her that she's not here to enjoy this awesome family time. The kids have done some very cool stuff, and those are memories she'll never have. They haven't even mentioned her, and when I asked them today if they wanted to talk to her on the phone, they all said no (I made them do it anyway). I know that isn't because they don't love her, it's because for kids their age "out of sight, out of mind" is the way they work. I know they don't think about me when they're with her, and I hate it.
Hi futureunknown! So glad the kids get to have fun at grandparents house. (I had my daughters and grandchildren over during the summer ---- noisy, but fun most of the time.) Isn't it so sad when we allow the normal negative stuff of M turn us away from the one person who we should be clinging to --- our spouses? I guess it's lack of communication or something. Dr Phil had a program last night about how spouses should be during troubling times, and it really hit home for me. We sometimes blame the other spouse for things that we have no real control over and I bet that's part of why your W is having the A.
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Only after our M buckled under the weight of 3 kids in 4 years, an endless fixer-up house project, medical problems, and financial difficulties did she decide to give OM another chance.
This is normal family life. Good grief! This is nothing compared to stuff other people go through and survive to the end. It would be the same for any M she goes into. It's up to her how she decides to handle difficult times and learn to balance it with good times that she can generate along with you. Perhaps you did 'blow it' (which I doubt), but that is no excuse for the A.
So, she's thinking she made the wrong choice long ago. What a foolish notion. She either loved you or not, and she clearly didn't love the OM enough then. And, the grass is rarely greener on the other side.
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She still tells me she grieves every day for the life she wanted to have with me.
A somewhat over the top thing to say, and to do so everyday, don't you think? A bit melodramatic, IMHO. Does she realise, I wonder, that she had half decision-making powers to make that life happen? Seldom does anything turn out exactly the way you want it to. I see your W as being somewhat emotionally immature and sees the world in a somewhat unrealistic way which is why she can act the way she is acting ---- friendship with you, fantasy life with OM, etc.
I think she needs to wake up to the realities of life and her part in it. You are not responsible for her happiness nor is OM. Yes, the actions of others can make us sad, or things in life (like the death of another) can make us grieve, but one overcomes it and moves on. In a marriage, we communicate, we negotiate, we stand by each other in bad times, we laugh and cry together.
Anyway, enough lecturing about M since I am still trying to get my H onto the playground. We are 'reconciled', but he just sits on the sidelines. Sigh!
Take care.
Me:57 H:52 M:28 Got another lawyer last year and filed. D35,S/D twins28,D22 EA4/04 End? Who knows? "Life is like a mirror. Smile at it and it smiles back at you." — Peace Pilgrim
My friends are telling me to STAY AWAY, until she makes a CLEAR DECLARATION of what she wants.
I don't think she can make a clear declaration at this point. She is cake-eating and at this point (except for the time away from the children), it tastes good. Why would she change anything? You can set boundaries and start making things a little more uncomfortable which might nudge her to a decision, one way or the other. Until then, you are in a kinda limbo, as I see it.
Me:57 H:52 M:28 Got another lawyer last year and filed. D35,S/D twins28,D22 EA4/04 End? Who knows? "Life is like a mirror. Smile at it and it smiles back at you." — Peace Pilgrim
Thanks for resurrecting my thread! Funny, I just came back to it to post an update and saw your replies.
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Only after our M buckled under the weight of 3 kids in 4 years, an endless fixer-up house project, medical problems, and financial difficulties did she decide to give OM another chance.
This is normal family life. Good grief! This is nothing compared to stuff other people go through and survive to the end. It would be the same for any M she goes into. It's up to her how she decides to handle difficult times and learn to balance it with good times that she can generate along with you. Perhaps you did 'blow it' (which I doubt), but that is no excuse for the A.
It is so good to hear someone else say that! Thank you! When I say I "blew it", that probably sounds like I'm being too hard on myself. I did try very hard, and I was very devoted, so I know I didn't fail there. I was emotionally walled off from my W though, for nearly our whole M. She was starving for emotional connection, and when she'd ask me to open up, I acted like the stereotypical overworked husband, and treated her request as just another demand on me. When OM re-entered the picture, he was eager and willing to open up to her, and she ate it up. That's how I blew it. Now that we're separated, I can plainly see she wanted to feel connected to me so bad, and I hurt her over and over when I wouldn't open up to the one person I should have. I regret that deeply, and I've told her and shown her that.
I agree with you, she's being quite dramatic about all this, and she is a little emotionally immature. Her mother told me she was a crying wreck on our anniversary. She certainly doesn't seem to accept her role in her unhappiness, but those all seem to be symptoms of the whole WAW syndrome, and MLC, and affairs. As this plays out, she does appear to be returning to normal. Actually, even better than normal. She is nicer to me now than she has been in many years!
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I don't think she can make a clear declaration at this point. She is cake-eating and at this point (except for the time away from the children), it tastes good. Why would she change anything? You can set boundaries and start making things a little more uncomfortable which might nudge her to a decision, one way or the other. Until then, you are in a kinda limbo, as I see it.
I don't think she WANTS to make a clear declaration. The question is, should I insist? If she thinks she can continue having this little fun flirty thing with me, while she continues her involvement with OM, that just shows how selfish she is being, and I need to stop participating. If her A is dying, and her reaching out to me is her way of "testing the waters" between us, and if it continues to move forward, then I'm okay with just letting that happen for a while longer. I think she needs to feel there is hope for something new and better between us before she'd be willing to humble herself and ask for another chance. My mission is to stay distant enough to be a bit of a challenge to her, while still making her feel special and loved when we're together. Seems to be working so far. At some point I need to make a stand and tell her and/or show her I'm done and moving on. The question is when? I don't think I have any other choice other than to follow my gut.
Very interesting that one of the first things she said to me when she returned from her trip was that she wasn't going back there in November like she had been planning. I said nothing in response.
I don't think I have any other choice other than to follow my gut.
In the end, that is your best bet. We here, can give advice, ideas, etc., but you're in the pit (as it were). You are surely walking a fine line and doing very well. But, I can see how frustrating this all must be for you.
Take care.
Me:57 H:52 M:28 Got another lawyer last year and filed. D35,S/D twins28,D22 EA4/04 End? Who knows? "Life is like a mirror. Smile at it and it smiles back at you." — Peace Pilgrim
Hey! Just read through your thread because it sounded like your sitch was similar to mine.
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I think she needs to feel there is hope for something new and better between us before she'd be willing to humble herself and ask for another chance. My mission is to stay distant enough to be a bit of a challenge to her, while still making her feel special and loved when we're together. Seems to be working so far. At some point I need to make a stand and tell her and/or show her I'm done and moving on. The question is when? I don't think I have any other choice other than to follow my gut.
Sounds JUST like the way I feel about my current sitch!! It has had some positive results in the last month. Like you, there have been some statements made by W that seem to indicate a change in outlook on our M. I'm gonna see where this goes for a while.
