WAW - Very confused and devastated - pt 7

[confusedinpa]

It's still very confusing - curious what people's thoughts are on the latest.

She picked me up a little after 8 for us to go down to the Children of Divorce Seminar. We stopped at a drive through to pick up breakfast. She unwrapped my sandwich for me as I was driving and handed it to me, just like she always did.

We drove down and chatted about the kids and other light topics. We got there and I sat down first. She sat next to me. We were the only ones who came together. All the other spouses were going seperated as one was attending the morning session and the other was attending the afternoon session.

She started to cry and the seminar started about the impact to the emotional, educational and overall development of the kids. I gave her a tissue.

After the seminar, we went out to lunch together. We chatted lightly and she asked me a question about a conversation we had Sat morning. She was concerned as she thought she heard me say "I was annoyed that she was still feeling hurt". I told her told her that I was annoyed that she was hurt by what happened in the past. I was also annoyed that since she's still hurt now, that I felt that we weren't really giving us a chance since we both see that there is a problem to work on.

She then challenged whatI thought all the counseling last year was about. I reminded her that the majority of the sessions I always said I didn't know why we were here as I loved her and was happy so I don't know what the problem is. Now I understand what the issue is and am working on me so that we can work on it. She said that she felt that I was not as developed as her emotionally. She said I was like a 12 year old emotionally. I was a little urked about that but kept my composure and just said that I'm working on me to learn and develop that and will continue to do so for me. Not for her, nor to save the marriage, but for me as I know that will make me a better person and father.

She said that she still wasn't sure about going to counseling. I told her that I am going to leave it up to her as I want her to go for her, not because of me. She said that she didn't want to go on her day with the kids but was going to see what she could work out with her mom to watch the kids. I told her just let me know as I would be going with or without her.

We talked about various light topics after that and she dropped me back off at home.

Hard to tell, I know it's only day 2 of the separation, but can't tell if there is still any hope left to hold on to....

[Dudess]

I told her told her that I was annoyed that she was hurt by what happened in the past. I was also annoyed that since she's still hurt now, . . . that I felt that we weren't really giving us a chance since we both see that there is a problem to work on.

As long as you feel annoyed that she was hurt by your behavior, rather than caring about how hurt she was, there probably is no hope. As long as you are annoyed that she isn't over it yet, you are pouring salt in her wounds.

If you can get to a place where you no longer are impatient for her to heal so you can feel better, and can accept that you hurt her deeply and that it will take a long, long time for that hurt to heal, . . . then, you might have a chance.

She then challenged whatI thought all the counseling last year was about. I reminded her that the majority of the sessions I always said I didn't know why we were here as I loved her and was happy so I don't know what the problem is. . .

I don't think that helps your case. You were happy, so even though your wife wanted to go to marriage counseling you still didn't get that she was not happy and that there was a problem until she filed for divorce.

In a marriage, it's not all about you. If you want your wife back, it needs to be all about her for a while.

[antlers]

If you can get to a place where you no longer are impatient for her to heal so you can feel better, and can accept that you hurt her deeply and that it will take a long, long time for that hurt to heal, . . . then, you might have a chance.



In a marriage, it's not all about you. If you want your wife back, it needs to be all about her for a while.

'This' is something that many of us need to remember. Thanks.

[MrBond]

"She said that she felt that I was not as developed as her emotionally."

This is a great big NO! She is the one who has not developed. Who is the one who is still "angry" and can't get over her anger and hurt? She is the one who is not as developed and is projecting those doubts onto you. It's very common.

Remember the times that you called her on it and she backed down? Sometimes our WAWs need a dose of reality to show them that the problems are in them sometimes. But they are afraid and its easier to blame someone else than look inwards.

Why would she even bring it up today of all days? It's because she feels guilty about everything she's doing so to alleviate the pain, she blames you.

Let me put it to you this way. You've given her everything she asked for and she still blames you. She's the one who's been giving off the mixed signals which is throwing you off and jerking your emotions around.

Stand strong and let her do her own thing, but DO NOT take everything she tells you. When many of us did that our spouses actually started respecting us again and started actually listening.

Let's face it, you haven't been taking care of your own needs just hers and she's stepping all over you or jumping on the pity train, remember? You have to have her realize that this is a result of what SHE is doing.

[confusedinpa]

As long as you feel annoyed that she was hurt by your behavior, rather than caring about how hurt she was, there probably is no hope. As long as you are annoyed that she isn't over it yet, you are pouring salt in her wounds.

If you can get to a place where you no longer are impatient for her to heal so you can feel better, and can accept that you hurt her deeply and that it will take a long, long time for that hurt to heal, . . . then, you might have a chance.

I don't think that helps your case. You were happy, so even though your wife wanted to go to marriage counseling you still didn't get that she was not happy and that there was a problem until she filed for divorce.

In a marriage, it's not all about you. If you want your wife back, it needs to be all about her for a while.

I must really be bad at communication. That was my wife's exact read on the original conversation as well. I had tried to explain what I meant to her yesterday so hopefully I got my point accross there. Seems like I didn't get it accross in my post either.

What I was trying to say was that I was annoyed about the overall situation. I wasn't annoyed at her being hurt but the entire circumstance where she got hurt and the fact that she was hurt (not because she's feeling hurt). I told her that I always loved her and was trying to do everything to make her happy, but didn't know that she was being hurt. I was also annoyed how now I understand the problem and its severity where before I didn't know what the problem was and its severity so I didn't even know what we were working on. Now that I know and understanding it better everyday, I am able to work on it and because she is still hurting, she isn't ready to do the same. I told her that until she is, I will just continue to work on me.

Does that make sense then?

Do you think I should make sure my wife understands what I was trying to say?

[confusedinpa]

"She said that she felt that I was not as developed as her emotionally."

This is a great big NO! She is the one who has not developed. Who is the one who is still "angry" and can't get over her anger and hurt? She is the one who is not as developed and is projecting those doubts onto you. It's very common.

Remember the times that you called her on it and she backed down? Sometimes our WAWs need a dose of reality to show them that the problems are in them sometimes. But they are afraid and its easier to blame someone else than look inwards.

Why would she even bring it up today of all days? It's because she feels guilty about everything she's doing so to alleviate the pain, she blames you.

Let me put it to you this way. You've given her everything she asked for and she still blames you. She's the one who's been giving off the mixed signals which is throwing you off and jerking your emotions around.

Stand strong and let her do her own thing, but DO NOT take everything she tells you. When many of us did that our spouses actually started respecting us again and started actually listening.

Let's face it, you haven't been taking care of your own needs just hers and she's stepping all over you or jumping on the pity train, remember? You have to have her realize that this is a result of what SHE is doing.

I've reminded her in almost every conversation that this is her decision as to what she feels she needs. I've told her that it's not what I want and I am ready to work on it but can't until she decides.

It's a good point about her "I was not as developed as her emotionally". I should have asked her for examples as I didn't fully understand what she meant.

She did bring up her need to see a therapist/counselor to work through her issues when we talked aboout going/scheduling counseling again. So I think that's a sign she's thinking about it. I just hope she actually does it....

[confusedinpa]

I had an interesting conversation with one of my friends. He's a non-DB guy, but he is a close friend and I do respect his thoughts/opinions.

I hadn't talked to him in a couple of weeks as he's been busy at work (late hours as well as traveling).

I brought him up to speed and he offered a couple of thoughts/opinions and I'm curious what everyone's thoughts are on what he said:

With respect to helping her move, I had told him how I told her that I didn't want her to leave and it really hurt to see her go. I do love her enough that I wanted her to feel free to do what she felt she needed to do so I wasn't going to stand in her way. I didn't want to help her leave as it would be hurtful to me, but since I love her so much, I would if she really wanted me to. She had said yes and asked me to take apart a bookcase and help split up the kids books/toys. Which I did (albeit without a lot of enthusiasm).

I also told him how I told her that I will be respecting her need for time and space/boundaries. Outside of talking about the kids, I was not going to text/email/call her. I would wait for her to take the initiative. She said that I didn't have to do that as if there was something special going on with the kids I should invite her - not pressure or guilt her, but just invite her. I asked how about something just for the 2 of us. She said she would have to think about that.

My friend offered the following thought/comment:

He said that if it was him, he would approach it as that he was now trying to date/woo someone who is being pursued by 3 other guys. If that's the case, he would want to make sure that he is the one that she can count on if she needs anything, especially when the "chips" are down. So he said that he would have done alot more to help her move. And he would also make sure that she knew that he was interested and that she was his "top priority".

Interestingly enough, that was how I "won" my wife's heart in the beginning.

But this is so anti-DB/Mr. Nice Guy.

So let the debate begin.

Go Dark/Dim or go into full "woo" mood?

[volleydog]

I really think you need to start with the Dark/Dim first. Give her some time to be on her own so she knows what it's like. If you go into "woo" mode right now it's just going to come across as pressuring her, imo.

[Coach]

Now I understand what the issue is and am working on me so that we can work on it.

What is the issue?

You are working on you for yourself.

She said that she felt that I was not as developed as her emotionally. She said I was like a 12 year old emotionally

She feels like she is "mothering" you. Not attractive to a female. She doesn't need another child she needs her man, partner, friend, lover and husband. Note I didn't say you were a emotional 12 yr old but your W "feels" that way. Change her feelings about that.

[confusedinpa]

I really think you need to start with the Dark/Dim first. Give her some time to be on her own so she knows what it's like. If you go into "woo" mode right now it's just going to come across as pressuring her, imo.

I was leaning towards the Dark/Dim mode first.

She called me a couple of times this morning (tactical stuff - i.e. mortgage info and baseball schedule for my 3 year old).

She had mentioned how she wasn't sure about going to counseling together when it was on her night with the kids (Mondays). I told her that I would be willing to give work with her so she didn't feel like she was losing any time with the kids if that was an issue. She said she appreciated that but right now felt she needed time to get into the new routine and as well as wanted to find/talk to her own therapist/counselor before she started going to counseling again. I told her that I wasn't trying to pressure her, only to address what I heard was a concern for her. I told her going to counseling was still up to to her and I would leave it as her decision.

I also made sure that she understood that I wasn't annoyed that she felt hurt, I was annoyed about the whole situation. I do know that she feels she is hurt and needs time and space to heal.

So starts day 3...

Thanks for checking in....