WAW - Very confused and devestated - pt 5

[confusedinpa]

Guys I appreciate all the support and really appreciate the optimism. From your lips to God's ears that there is really a chance

I was really sick this afternoon so I came home from work (chills, fever, stomach, etc). When my wife got home she said I should have called her. She did ask if there was something in particular I wanted for dinner (I didn't eat all day). I asked for jelly toast. She gave me a couple of advils. She didn't try to comfort me with any touch though. It made me a little sad

I did thank her for the toast and advil. We talked lightly for a minute or so but I saw she was trying to avoid eye contact. I suspect she signed the lease today. I'm not going to ask. It doesn't make a difference in my mind

I laid in the family room after dinner under a pile of blankets. After about an hour she suggested I go upstairs to bed

Before I went up, I thanked her again and appologized if she felt anything I said last nite was inappropriate. She said what? I repeated it. She didn't say anything and I went upstairs

My therapist feels that my wife is now emotionally shut down. Almost depressed like I was. She was surprised how little concern my wife is showing about the kids and to me. She noticed that my wife doesn't show any compassion or any emotion when I get upset about the impact to the kids

I noticed that tonite. I am scared for her. That is no way to live life. I just don't know how to help her.

My thrapist feels I have been extremely compasionate to my wife but I don't think she is really familiar with the Love without hurt concepts. I'm only up to page 140. Hope I can finish it when there is still time/hope

Thanks for all the support and insight

[confusedinpa]

CIPA,

has she been contacting you today?

No she hadn't. It's now a tell usually she has something to hit me with when she doesn't. Fortunately I was sick so she didn't drop any bombs. Guess she is saving it for tomorrow

[confusedinpa]

I want to give you another example (and I apologize in advance for being very blunt, but I really have no idea how I can be less drastic to get through to CIPA). I have read a few posts of CIPA on other people's threads. They usually start with a sentence like "I understand your situation...", and then he rattles on with his own situation. If he does the same thing to his W, of course, she does not feel understood and respected.

The only way to make her feel safe, to take away her fear is to approach her without an agenda, like a true friend who listens, validates her feelings and offers help. How about something like "I understand you feel hurt about what I have done. I wish I would not have done all these things. How can I help you feel more comfortable?" And then do whatever she is asking for. You can even hug her lightly or hold her hand, once you have truly connected with each other. But something like "I understand you are hurt. But the victims of a D will be the kids." for sure turns her off. I am exaggerating, but that is how I sense those conversations are going.

As long as CIPA has those thoughts like "I do not want a divorce. She destroys our family. I love her, so why can't she get over the past hurt?", he will always be in attack mode when he talks to her. When he is in attack mode, showing compassion is impossible.

However, her problem is the past. And we can't change that.

I am not really sure her problem is the past. Her problem is that she does not see a future with CIPA, because he keeps hurting her, he keeps scratching those old wounds so they start bleeding again and cannot heal. When they talk, CIPA's motivation is not to understand her point of view fully and accept it as her point of view, but to convince her to stay, to stop the D, to stay with the family. I hear that over and over again in his posts, and I just cannot imagine that he turns around 180 degrees when he talks to his W. And I am convinced that his W can sense his motivation better than anything else (an animal can sense your motivation when you walk towards it). Whenever she senses his motivation is own agenda, her defenses are up and she tells the story about the past.

AN

I appreciate all the advice. I will try some of your suggestions

Any thoughts on how to show compassion when she talks about moving out over the next 3 weeks?

[MrBond]

"I noticed that tonite. I am scared for her. That is no way to live life. I just don't know how to help her."

That's the thing. You CAN'T help her. She's got to be the one to help herself. AN is right in that you've got to stop being the problem solver and drop the rope. Remember the stray dog analogy. You push to much and she takes off.

Right now she's shut down because she doesn't understand what the heck is going on with her. She doesn't think she has the problem and is trying to do everything herself without really understanding what's going on. Typical MLC stuff.

You can show her compassion by understanding her confusion. She doesn't know why she feels trapped, she just knows she has to leave. She has to get to the point where she understands why she feels trapped in the first place. Only then can she truly feel "free".

If she chooses to leave, you can't stop her and it would go against everything you told her about wanting to be happy. So let her go and talk to her if she talks first. Don't bring anything about the kids or your feelings up to her. She can't be guilted into coming back. She has to learn through experience.

Pick up clues from what she tells you and write them down as you have been. Try understanding her more from the little tidbits she tells you.

[AnotherNightmare]

Right now she's shut down because she doesn't understand what the heck is going on with her. She doesn't think she has the problem and is trying to do everything herself without really understanding what's going on. Typical MLC stuff.

Stuck, you are right about this. She gets pulled in every direction. For what we know, she might even try to heal the past hurt and pain, but with everything going on around her, the constant R conversations, the changes she sees, but also the old habits she may still recognize, she just does not know what to do. She has mixed feelings, and even in her mind she might not be 100% clear on where to go. She simply needs time and space to figure this out on her own. Intuitively she is doing the right thing by moving out and creating that needed space for herself.

You can show her compassion by understanding her confusion. She doesn't know why she feels trapped, she just knows she has to leave. She has to get to the point where she understands why she feels trapped in the first place. Only then can she truly feel "free".

If she chooses to leave, you can't stop her and it would go against everything you told her about wanting to be happy. So let her go and talk to her if she talks first. Don't bring anything about the kids or your feelings up to her. She can't be guilted into coming back. She has to learn through experience.

Again, full ack. CIPA, you can show compassion by understanding and accepting what she is going through. Stop fighting her moving out. Stop communicating any of your own points. Show her that you understand that the separation might help her, maybe both of you to figure what you want and need and what is best for both of you. When she tells you that she is moving out on day X, do not give her a speech how bad this is for the kids and that you do not give up on your marriage, just tell her "I understand you need a break from all this. We both need a break. Let me know what I can do for you." Make everything you say to her about her and nothing about you.

AN

[confusedinpa]

My 7 year old and I are home sick. She did ask me if I needed any drink or medicine this morning before she got ready. She seemed to have softened somewhat from last nite when she wouldn't even look at me. She wound up calling at lunch to see if we needed anything (porabably more for our son than me)

She dropped some soup off for us and went right back for work.

I'm ok with her leaving but she wants to take the kids. I'm not ok with that. How do I show compassion in that case?

[AnotherNightmare]

She wound up calling at lunch to see if we needed anything (porabably more for our son than me)

This is an example where positive self-talk would help you get a more heart and mind towards her. Maybe she did do it also for you. Just something to think about...

I'm ok with her leaving but she wants to take the kids. I'm not ok with that. How do I show compassion in that case?

I think here you have to show compassion for your kids. Given the circumstances and her decision to leave, what is best for them, not her? Also, there is going to be a custody agreement soon. You need to hold her to that. I would definitely insist on a close to 50/50 agreement.

[MrBond]

When you say that she's taking the kids, what agreement did she want? The 50/50 would be best like AN says. Can you have the kids half the week at your place and the other half at hers?

[confusedinpa]

I'm still struggling with my stomach bug

She tried to call a few times but I missed the call. I did call her back and she had asked if there was anything I needed. When she got home she asked if there was anything in particular that I wanted for dinner

After dinner, my stomach bug was in full attack so I spent most of the time in the bathroom or laying down in the family room

When the kids started to watch their show she was in the den. I went in and massaged her shoulder lightly and thanked her for trying to make me feel better. I then said I know how hurt she must have felt and I wish that I didn't make her feel that way. I asked her how she was feeling now.

She said trapped was a good way to describe it. She wanted to leave back in Jan but stayed because she didn't think I wanted to work on the marriage. She realizes now how being confronted with the person who hurt her so bad everyday is not helping the situation. She thinks that by getting away, she may realize what all she is giving up. She did start crying. I asked her if it would be ok to hug her. She said yes

Then she brought up the kid's Bday party. She wants to have it in May and but wants to move out in April. Then she started pressing about custody again

Fortunately our youngest interupted the conversation so it ended there

We put the kids to bed and went to bed since I wasn't feeling well. She came in to appologize for talking so much when I was sick. I told her that was ok and thanked her again for helping when I was sick

So the journey continues

[confusedinpa]

So I guess this brings me back to my earlier question, how do I DB when she moves out?

Or is that the time to go dark?