WAW - Very confused and devestated - pt 5

[Astimegoeson]

More to the confusion pool

I had a lot of these mixed signals in the beginning. I truly believe in most cases that the WAS does not want to intentionally hurt the LBS. Especially when you have a history with kids involved. I think a lot of the unexpected hugs, favors, and good gestures from my ex were more of an apology for what she was doing to me. In most cases, it was behind my back at the time. It was compassion mixed with a little guilt. Very confusing for me at the time.

I think this back and forth/cold and hot is pretty typical. The thing most will tell you is not to read to much into it one way or the other. Don't pin your hopes on it, but don't let it discourage you when she goes cold in the other direction.

[confusedinpa]

It was a good 3rd B'day at Applebee's. He was thrilled when they sang to him. We went home and he loved his presents. I enjoyed his moment almost as much as he did!

I did try to talk to my wife about their B'day party. I asked her to consider waiting to move out until after their Bday party so their day will be about them not talking about our situation. She had the audacity of suggesting of having it in the community center of her apartment complex. I said no way. This could be their last Bday party in the family home. We need to make it about them. She said what difference would it make.
I lost it at that point and said that our kids need to be the top priority and she's not acting that way. The fact that she wants a separation and divorce shows that. It is not in the best interest of the kids to only have 1 parent around. That I why a divorce is no the answer

That's when she said she agreed its not a good answer. It just that she feels we were not meant to be together since we weren't able to maintain/develop the connection shortly after we were married. Then she went into her pity party line of being hurt/neglected/ignored. I said that was then, this is now and I believe these changes are real. Everyone has seen them and believe. My co-workers, kids, therapist, friends and even my buddy up in CT. I know I am making a better, fuller life by making these changes permanent. Only time can prove it.

She tried to take a jab at me saying I so much, like she wasn't doing anything. I said I use I as I am the only person I can control and speak for. She is in control of her decisions and right now her decision is putting what she wants above what's best for the kids

I then said I am very comfortable with what she wants as I know I will be happy and will be loved by the kids. The kids are innocent victims here so I need to put their priorities first. That's why I am fighting for the marriage. For them and for us. I told her I do love her and want her to be part of my life. But I know even without her I will be happy.

She said I was starting to be a sound like a preacher. I said that's because both a preacher and I are passionate about what we believe in. And I believe that what's best for the kids must be a priority and I believe our relationship can work

This is entirely her decision on whether either will happen

Then she said that I was starting to get mean and nasty. I told her we would be kidding ourselves if we thought a divorce would be nice and easy. How it affects each of us and our kids will be nasty. The children of divorce has a divorce rate of over 79% (87% if both are children of divorce). That means most likely one if not both of our kids will wind up going through a divorce

I said I still believe in our marriage and believe it can work. But we would need help as we both never seen what a happy loving marriage looks like as we were both children of divorce. I know I will work on it. Its her decision whether she will work on it. If she doesn't, it won't work and that's on her

Then, big surprise, she said it was late (10PM) so she was going to bed

I said good nite and walked away from her (no hug or kiss)

Not sure if what I said/did tonite helps or makes it worse but I firmly established kids as the priority

[MrBond]

Sorry your night of celebration ended the way it did.

The odd thing about WASs is that oftentimes they choose special occasions or holidays to drop the bombs. My W and I separated on the day of our birthdays.

"It just that she feels we were not meant to be together since we weren't able to maintain/develop the connection shortly after we were married. "

YOu are right. that was the past. This is the present.

"She tried to take a jab at me saying I so much, like she wasn't doing anything."

It's true though. She hadn't done much to try and stay in the M. She was waiting for the feeling to come back while she had one foot out the door. All she had to do was say she wasn't going to leave, to herself and go with the flow. You can't say you're trying when you still say you're leaving. That's a half-ass way of trying.

"Then she said that I was starting to get mean and nasty. I told her we would be kidding ourselves if we thought a divorce would be nice and easy."

Well you had to let it out and I don't blame you.

We'll see how things turn out in the morning.

[DrHemlock]

I agree w/ Stuck that you made an excellent point on the past vs. the present. The self-help guru Tony Robbins (got a D, one observes, so take w/ many many grains of salt! ) had a catch-phrase I heard him use once on an info-mercial, and it's always stuck (no pun intended) with me:

"The past doesn't equal the future."

I think that's pretty apropos for DB'ers generally. But WAS's go the other way.

[confusedinpa]

"Then she said that I was starting to get mean and nasty. I told her we would be kidding ourselves if we thought a divorce would be nice and easy."

Well you had to let it out and I don't blame you.

We'll see how things turn out in the morning.

When she said I was starting to get mean and nasty, it wasn't about my tone. I wasn't yelling or screaming, I was actually crying. It is something I still haven't gotten a handle on. I don't cry when I talk about her and I and what is happening. I only cry when I think about my kids. It was a tough conversation for me as I used about 1/3 of a box of tissues in the hour we talked.

I'm pretty sure she was referring to that she felt the things I was saying was mean and nasty. That she wasn't putting the kids priority first.

Another thing that came up was that I had asked her mom if we can chat. We were going to try and have lunch during the week. I normally NEVER talk to her mom - she's too touchy feely and felt she was so nosy that I didn't want her to know my business. I was going to talk to her just to let her know my side of the story of saving the marriage, but wanted to make sure I could still call her if I needed any help with my kids.

She asked what I wanted to talk to her mom about. She threw it out there in the middle I think to try and derail me. I told her that it was to ask if she would be willing to help me if I needed any help with the boys. My wife said that I could always call her. I then told her I knew that but wanted to make sure I had a full support structure to make sure I would be able to take care of the boys and the home. That was when she dropped the why am I saying I so much.

Throughout the entire conversation she didn't say too much after we got off the B'day party discussion. When I started talking about how her decision to get divorce was not putting the kids as the first priority, she stopped talking. I would pause at times and ask her what she was thinking or feeling. She would just say she was just listening. Once she sad she was mad. Another time she said I was starting to get mean and nasty.

Another time after I had gotten up to get a new box of tissues, I stayed standing for a bit, and she asked me to sit down as she felt I was trying to over power her (sounded very text book, wonder where she read that one). I appologized and sat down, but didn't ease up.

The only other question of substance is she wanted to know what my buddy up in CT said when he commented about my changes. I told her he saw that I was much more relaxed, no longer on a hair trigger, more verbal/talkative and engaged. This is a guy that nows me better than anyone else as he grew up with very similar experiences as I did starting the second year in HS.

I told her that I know it was weird saying that as I know that my wife should be the person that knew me better than anyone. I told her that as part of my changes, I recognize how I was afraid and/or embarrased to share things about me. I see that now, which is why I've been sharing so much with her. I shouldn't be embarrases about my past. They made me who I am and I not only survived, I thrived.

The odd part of it was this morning started like any other morning. She woke me up. We both got ready in the bathroom. We talked and joked around about various things. If anyone saw us, they would have no idea we were in a midst of a divorce.

I was tempted to just give her the cold shoulder or ask her if she has given our conversation any more thought, but didn't want her to think I was going to "hammer her into submission".

I may bring it up the next time she brings up custody, which will be soon since we have a mediation hearing on Monday. She usually asks if I had given it any more thought. Perhaps I should reflect it back to her about if she has given what I said about the divorce any more thought. In hindsight, I should have ended the conversation last nite with the comment that I want her to think about it.

The only difference this morning than any other morning was the hug and kiss. I wanted to but trying to give her one wasn't an option. I gave my youngest an extra hug and kiss instead. It felt so much better than what I've been feeling with my wife.

[AnotherNightmare]

CIPA,

I have read through a lot of your posts and also what other people have recommended to you. You and others are saying that you tried the kind and compassionate route, and it did not work with her. I doubt that you really tried and I want to tell you why...

Let me try to describe one more time what compassion means to me. Compassion to me means leaving behind your point of view when you approach her, trying to be completely open, to fully understand her point of view, to simply accept and respect that whatever she says is her point of view, her feelings, her thoughts and her opinions. It means trying to get, maybe even to feel what causes her pain, to connect with her before you start talking with her, to simply stop stating your own point of view.

If anything you write and how you write about your conversations with your W is any indication, you are still trying to convince her that your point of view is right. You excuse your own behavior with the depression that your C diagnosed and accuse her of having MLC and the typical WAW mindset. Even if this is correct, if it is on your mind when you approach her, you will invariably attack her and she will get defensive. There will be no compassion and it will increase her fear and her urge to just run away.

I get the sense that deep in her heart she does not want the divorce either, but she cannot bear the situation anymore like it is right now. She simply has to end it. She sees and notices your changes, but you are not yet where she would like to see you. Maybe she doubts that you will ever get there. It is more than a whatever attitude. As long as you avoid (which you probably did before the bomb) or attack her (which you are doing right now for not doing what you want her to do), she will not come back. If you want her to come back, you need to approach her patiently and openly, with an open mind and an open heart.

I know that this is extremely hard. You basically have to swallow your pride, ignore your own feelings of pain, anger and hurt, it takes a leap of faith, but in the end that is the only way to make it happen in a situation like yours. She does not have an A, which would require a completely different approach, so get over what she has done to you and try to be the best husband and father you can be. When you interact with her, make her, her wishes, her feelings, her thoughts a priority. When you do not interact with her, make yourself, your emotional and intellectual growth, your own feelings and thoughts a priority. You can do this.

AN

[confusedinpa]

I get the sense that deep in her heart she does not want the divorce either, but she cannot bear the situation anymore like it is right now. She simply has to end it. She sees and notices your changes, but you are not yet where she would like to see you. Maybe she doubts that you will ever get there. It is more than a whatever attitude. As long as you avoid (which you probably did before the bomb) or attack her (which you are doing right now for not doing what you want her to do), she will not come back. If you want her to come back, you need to approach her patiently and openly, with an open mind and an open heart.

I know that this is extremely hard. You basically have to swallow your pride, ignore your own feelings of pain, anger and hurt, it takes a leap of faith, but in the end that is the only way to make it happen in a situation like yours. She does not have an A, which would require a completely different approach, so get over what she has done to you and try to be the best husband and father you can be. When you interact with her, make her, her wishes, her feelings, her thoughts a priority. When you do not interact with her, make yourself, your emotional and intellectual growth, your own feelings and thoughts a priority. You can do this.

AN

I hope you are right that she doesn't want a divorce deep in her heart. The reality is that is the decision that she made. I've recognized that I've caused her significant hurt. It is not something that I can take back. I don't feel that depression is an excuse either. I feel that it happened and I see the pain it caused, and that's what pushed her to make this decision. I've taken accountability for that - even last nite.

I am trying to change, not for her, but for me. I do recognize how I struggle with the compassion aspect.

Any suggestions on how I should have approached the B'day party conversation/dialog that would have more compassion?

Thanks for checking in.

[confusedinpa]

Anybody have any comments/thoughts on compassion?

[song]

Read "Love Without Hurt" by Stosny - his website is http://compassionpower.com/

However, be prepared for some difficult truths, that book really threw me for a loop.

[confusedinpa]

Read "Love Without Hurt" by Stosny - his website is http://compassionpower.com/

However, be prepared for some difficult truths, that book really threw me for a loop.

I'm actually half way through his book. I was looking for some specific examples of what compassion would have looked/sounded like in my conversation last nite

Any suggestions?

Thanks for checking in