WAW - Very confused and devestated - pt 5

[confusedinpa]

The toughest part of today for me is that my youngest turns 3 today. So this could be the last time we celebrate it as a family.

It's not fair! But I guess this will be his first experience of life being not fair.

Like Kayne West song says, whatever doesn't kill you will make you stronger....

[confusedinpa]

More to the confusion pool

This morning, she woke me up like normal. Big difference was that she stayed in the bathroom while I got ready. Last several days, she would leave the bathroom as soon as I got in.

We talked/chatted lightly (not about our relationship). I did not try to give her a hug and/or kiss like I normally do.

My wife came into our room with our youngest so I gave my youngest a big hug and kiss for his B'day. I finished getting ready.

I went downstairs and I was about to actually leave when I realized that I forgot my cell phone in our bedroom. I started to go upstairs as my wife started to move. I walked right by her and she said "I was just about to give you a hug".

I stopped and gave her a hug. I tried to breakaway but she kept hugging so I continued for a few more minutes. I then broke away and she kissed me on the check.

Go figure - oh well, whatever.

Then she bombarded me with a whole bunch of emails this morning - everything from how am I doing today, how difficult our youngest one was this morning, to a resturant we like has discount coupons, to what we're doing for dinner tonite, etc.

I replied to one of them after about 30 minutes (I was on a conference call). Minor chit chat stuff, I didn't answer her how am I doing today question (I almost wanted to reply how does she expect me to feel knowing that she will be moving out soon) but put at the closing "Our hug this morning was really nice though"

She responded right away, but didn't comment about my hug comment.

I kept waiting about 15-20 minutes to respond, but she kept responding right away.

Oh well, all I know is we are going to my 3 year old's favorite resturant for his B'day tonite. I'm going to pick up my 7 year old so we can pick a cake out for his little brother on the way home from school.

It will be a good day!

[confusedinpa]

Is there any reason why you're still going to attend C? It continues to sound like she's doing it just for you.

This is why -

With an MLC person that's the hardest part because they don't see the problem as being themselves. But there are "ah ha" moments that hopefully you or the C can bring out of her.

Our marriage counselor is more of a mental health therapist. We're not really working on the relationship per se during the sessions. Seems like she's really trying to work with us to make sure we're both ok emotionally.

This past session she's been working on pointing out how communication was/is a big driver in developing a loving/happy relationship (under my steering of the discussion). We talked about the recent example of the CT trip "discussion".

I do see how my wife interpreted as not being involved in the decision process as she clearly was not. What my wife had assumed was that I decided it several days before. What I brought up was that it actually came up that afternoon I called her. I do see how I didn't communicate it very clearly that it was a sudden trip plan that just worked out.

Our counselor then challenged her why didn't she say anything until Sunday. My wife said she was in such a shock as I've never gone away with the boys by myself that she didn't know how to respond.

Our counselor gave us both suggestions/ideas on what to do differently next time.

Ironically, my wife and I had a discussion of how we thought the counselor was helping our relationship. We both agreed that she was helping us feel better about ourselves. I guess that's part of her approach was that to get both of feeling better about ourselves so we can bring something healthy to the relationship.

I did float out the idea of finding someone else as I had been looking for something more relationship focused. She said she would be open to trying someone/thing else if I wanted to. I did press about asking her if she wanted to go. She said that trying to save the marriage was not what she wanted as she didn't feel that way anymore so she wants a divorce. She knows that I want to save the marriage so she will go to support what I want.

I interpreted her as what I told her. I love her enough so that if she wants to leave, I will not stand in her way, even if it's not what I want. She respects my want to save the marriage, even if it's not what she wants. She won't stand in my way by not going. She does participate and engage during the sessions. So if all she wanted to do was go for me, I would expect her to say nothing or just throw jabs at me. She does talk about how she feels and what she is thinking when asked. She doesn't offer it freely, but I guess that's the difference between not standing in the way vs. helping.

I am thinking about broaching the topic of retrovaille as an alternate counseling. I thought about DB phone counseling as well but I'm torn. Anyone with an opinion/ideas?

[confusedinpa]

Another question I have is after she moves out, does that mean going Dark/Last Resort the move to make on my part?

[MrBond]

"I did float out the idea of finding someone else as I had been looking for something more relationship focused. She said she would be open to trying someone/thing else if I wanted to."

Obviously she's not into it or going to participate. Right now is not the right time for her so I wouldn't push it. She should actually go on her own for herself and not for the R. Right now your W is seeing everything in the R as negative, so anything associated with it (M included) is not for her. She's just going for you which is the wrong approach. She has to want to go.

MLC is like alcoholism. First they have to recognize that it is a MLC. Then they have to get help for themselves. We can try all we want, but it WILL NOT change their mind until they want to.

"I walked right by her and she said "I was just about to give you a hug".

Maybe you should have said, "okay if that's what you want". Then do it, but act indifferent either way. She's doing it to make herself feel better about putting you down.

"I replied to one of them after about 30 minutes (I was on a conference call). Minor chit chat stuff, I didn't answer her how am I doing today question (I almost wanted to reply how does she expect me to feel knowing that she will be moving out soon) but put at the closing "Our hug this morning was really nice though"

Start detaching yourself. You shouldn't have responded to everything. Maybe just one and mention that you were busy. Then end it. And you DEFINITELY shouldn't have said that about the hug. You're showing her your neediness. And also showing her that you'll be okay as long as you get your daily hug. Believe me buddy, you'll be lucky if you get a hug or anything else for that matter once SHE decides to stop it. Then you'll be disappointed again, feel sad, regretful, etc. You've got to be the first to detach yourself from that now. You're setting yourself up for a big fall.

DB counseling is fine. And you can try Retrouavaille. I've heard that miracles do happen there, but every case is different. I think it helps more if your W has a strong faith in God as it is faith based.

IF she moves out, then you cut her out. don't call, don't pursue, don't leave TMs, nothing. Talk only if it concerns the kids. If she calls, keep all conversations short and always end it first. The thing is you want her to wonder about you and show her that she is not the key to your happiness.

Again, with a MLC person, that's all you can do. You stick to the changed person that you are and live as such. She's going to have to find her own path.

The problem is that if you continue to "help" her along the way by letting her hug you, be overly friendly, you apologizing for every time that she feels angry (even when you are not at fault), she's going to keep being nice to you until she's out the door. Then once she's out, she's going to shut the door and be the one who doesn't initiate anything friendly and you're going to be left wondering WTH happened?

Look over your posts again. Her interactions to you have been like a mom to her child. She punishes you for your "bad" behavior, and rewards you for good behavior, but only when she feels like it.

Stay compassionate, yet firmly rooted in your beliefs and do what is right for you and your kids. Not her.

[spellfire]

Not trying to be lazy here, but no point in being redundant...I agree with everything stuck just said. ^

[confusedinpa]

I'm really torn on the counseling thing though. If she was really just going for me, wouldn't she just act like a bump on the log and not say anything or just through jabs constantly. She does participate in the introspective, so I think. I have my appoint with my therapist tomorrow (who is also my counselor) so perhaps I should talk to her and get her opinion.

I see your point about the hug. I wasn't going to say anything but put that in there to put something positive out there - I hadn't thought that she was just doing it to make herself feel better. It's a tough call as in the past, I never would give her a hug (at least a long one, nor with any emotion). If I don't give it to her, can't it be interpurted as I'm hurt and pouting?

That is an interesting point about mom to her child. It is a real reversal as in the past she had said I treated her more like a child than a wife. I'm going to have to think about that one.

Also, I only responded to one of her emails. I didn't respond to all of them. In fact she sent me two more after my last email, just misc stuff, that I didn't think needed response. I always try to end the day with her sending the last email. I rarely send the first text or email (only if it is something related to the kid's schedule)

Tonite is my 3 year old's b'day so I'm not going to bring up any relationship discussion so I don't ruin the day.

I want to ask her to consider waiting till after a B'day party for the 2 boys (every year we throw them a combined B'day party as their B'days are only 2 weeks apart) before moving out. I'm trying to figure out how to bring it up. I think I'm going to use the technique the counselor suggested.

I was thinking something along the following:

"My thought is out of fairness and consideration for our kids, can you wait till after their B'day party before moving out? It is suppose to be their day and I don't think it would be very respectful if they were not the focus of the party."

Any thoughts? I'm trying to get her to be part of the "decision" making process.

[confusedinpa]

Well, I'm heading home to pick up my oldest so we can pick out a B'day cake for my youngest.

I know I need to stay positive and upbeat for my son's B'day. It is his day.

I do need some encouragement/advice. This may be the last couple of weeks I will have my wife in the house, ever.....

[MrBond]

In terms of the C, you have to ask yourself. Has any of it done any good in terms of having her work on your M? So far the answer's been no. She contributes when she needs to, but hasn't really thought of the M in terms of herself. It's up to you to continue, but I wouldn't. She should see her own C.

"I see your point about the hug. I wasn't going to say anything but put that in there to put something positive out there"

Just shows your neediness.

"I'm trying to get her to be part of the "decision" making process."

Tread lightly here. There is no decision making process. She made the decision and is waiting for you to agree to what she wants. The thing is you have to try and change her attitude to see that what she wants is the M.

Write down what you want in terms of the separation and go from there. You say you're a negotiator, well think of her as someone doing a hostile takeover. Do what's right for you and your kids. Take your focus off her and her needs.

[working on me]

confusedinpa,

Thanks for checking in on me, Happy B-Day to the little man!

Today is a big gift to you as well, celebrate it to the fullest, forget the wife today, it's all about the little man.