Yes, I agree that he owed you honesty if he said that he was trying to reconcile with you and was not seeing other people or sleeping with them. It seems he has even been working on being more honest. He has, for instance, told you that he is dating and that he has deep dark secrets. He surely has not treated you well as a friend or as a romantic interest.
No, he has NOT been working on being more honest. He has simply talked about needing to, but there has been no action. And no, he did not tell me he was dating...his words to me were, "I have plans this weekend, how about when I get home from my trip?" I pushed it to get the "date" word out there. He wouldn't have told me, I guarantee you this. Why this is important for me to say- I don't know. But I am saying it, and maybe you all can find yet another flaw in my makeup that you can point out to me. That sounded really sarcastic; I assure you it was not meant in that way a bit. My first time thru here I was honest, but I did withhold. This time I am not. I am serious about changing my ways. It hurts, but I need to hear some things about myself to make this possible.
2gthr- Thanks for the support. A simple sentence like the one you offered is much appreciated.
Ian- You are right about jumping onto threads regardless. And I am very happy that you did so. Thank you again.
OK, on to today.
Maybe there is nothing to discuss, but my sleepless night told me otherwise. I went back and forth about it--- let him bring it up...make the arrangements. I am telling you, I slept for all of an hour- I just prayed for some peace and for the voices in my head to stop.
Ultimately, I decided that I needed the closure. Chances were very good that he would not contact me, but would be here when I got back from my exercise class (a Monday ritual). I didn't want that.
So, I texted: Good morning. I hope you slept better than I. May I come talk to you this afternoon? (Son) is supposed to go to your house tonight, and, well, I'd really like a chance to speak with you.
Him: What is it that you want to talk about?
Me: I just need an ending. May I have that?
Him: OK, what time?
Me: 12:30?
Him: I am in meetings, how about 3?
Me: OK, see you then.
About an hour later he called me. I was at work, but able to pick up the phone. I am sure he expected voicemail.
Him: I got called into a work meeting and am on my way downtown (he primarily works from home). I am not going to be able to make it at 3.
Me: I would really like to talk to you.
Him: We can do it later. I can call you on my way home. Can I ask what you want to talk about?
Me: Well, I have already apologized and I hope you believe me when I say I know I was wrong. There is just so much unfinished between us, and I just want to be able to put some things to rest. This is not about me needing to yell at you.
Him: (Surprised) It's not?
Me: No. You have your own life and I need to understand that. I do think that I understand why you do the things you do.
Him: (really surprised) You understand?
Me: Yes. I think that I do. Can I ask you one question?
Him: Sure
Me: When you told me you had plans before your trip, but that we would do something when you got back, did you mean it? Or were you just going to blow it off when it got closer?
Him: I meant it.
me: That may seem insignificant to you, but it was important for me to know that. (side note: I just wanted to establish in my own head that I wasn't making things up...that he was sending very mixed messages.)
Him: I went on vacation to think. I had a lot of soul searching to do. (This then turned into a rant about work, and how they called him every single day, and how he hates his job more than I could ever understand.)
I said I was sorry. That seemed to embarrass him, and he quickly told me that he was not telling me for my pity.
Me: It is not about pity. I know how hard you work and how badly you needed that vacation. I am sorry you didn't get that.
We talked for another minute or so, then he said he would call me on his way home. He asked about son going to his house (as I said, Xh always comes here on Mondays, but I ended that option when the dating came to light.) As I suspected, he was surprised that he was not coming over. He said he would talk to son. He said, "so you told him then?" I said not in so many words, actually that it was a family time that I was opting out of, and that I wanted him to still see his dad as often as possible, so he could drive over to his house.
2X4 ready? Good, you'll need it.
I then said that I would see him later. I told him that I missed him while he was gone, and that it was hard to not call or text. He said that he was surprised to hear this, and then he sighed very loudly and said, "this is where I get into trouble. If I tell you how I was feeling you will run with it." (meaning, he missed me too, and wanted to talk with me also)
I said that he didn't need to say anything.
He once again said he'd call on his way home. Then we hung up.
Can I be his ongoing friend? No. Do I want to go out as enemies? No.
So, that's where I am. No where....everywhere.....
People who aren't trying to be more honest don't agonize over it and tell people they are hiding things. He did not have to tell you he was dating. He could have lied about that as well as lying about the sex.
Good luck on "closure." I doubt you'll get it. It seems instead that you are using this as an excuse to do more of the same. You're already extracting what you call "mixed signals" from him.
Here is his signal. It has been pretty darn clear from what you have written PRIOR to your last snooping. It is not confusing. Do not run with it. HE DOES NOT KNOW WHAT HE WANTS. HE IS UNWILLING TO BE THE ONE TO CANCEL HIS BACKUP PLAN. HE WANTS YOU IN THE WINGS WHILE HE CONTINUES TO DATE AND HAVE SEX WITH OTHER WOMEN. HE WANTS HIS PERSONAL LIFE TO BE NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.
If you accept that role, well, then maybe you have "unfinished business." Otherwise, there is really no business to be finished right now.
You have not gone dark. You are making excuses to connect with him. You are trying to extract something from him that you have to find for yourself -- peace with his lies, peace with ending your recent illusions of an exclusive R with him, peace with choosing not to be his friend, when friendship doesn't include the details of his personal calendar or bedroom.
X will tell you what you want to hear to get back into his comfort zone. Will you join him there?
Ya know, I'm not actually all that much against snooping. Indeed, I think some people should snoop.
However, at best snooping is justified in the context of what is supposed to be a committed monogomous relationship. You don't get to hack into the email of an ex-spouse who is dating other people just because you can guess the password.
Snooping at the begining of this becomes a habit and its like self inflicting pain on yourself when you keep finding more and more evidence of an affair. Self mutilation...
I agree with you though. Snooping is useful as long as it doesn't become an addiction.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
First of all, I realize I am making a lot of mistakes. Those of you posting to me are well beyond these times, and YES, I should be too, but there is the part of me that just wants my family together so badly that I make the dumb choices. I am not excusing myself- I just want you to try to understand when you think of how much this hurts when you are in the middle of it. You canot beat me up as badly as I am doing it to myself.
Yes, OT, you are right. Going is just going to give me hope- its going to allow me to hold back onto that thread that I say I so desperately want to detach from. Notice I am still at home. I have not gone. I know that I want answers, but I probably just want the answers that I want. Please understand that I came here to be honest, and also to get input. YES, I SHOULD KNOW BETTER. I know this. Anything I can say to that is just an excuse as to why I can't. So, I won't do that. It is frustrating; I know.
BND- what do I truly want from this man? My most humble and honest answer--- I want him to be someone he is not. I want him to love me. I want him to be the dad that he used to be. I want him to get help for his depression and to heal.
None of those are in my control. And all the words in the world won't make them. I do understand that. Now I just need to keep working on shutting the hell up.
And, hopefully you will help me thru this until I get strong enough to stop needing the input.
Wow. I missed out on a lot that was going on with you this past week. (I'm keeping my fingers crossed that my internet problems are fixed.)
My heart is hurting for you right now. I can imagine how painful this is. OT and Jack and BND and others had some great words of insight and advice.
I think I'm very much in the same boat with you. We still love our x's and want so much for them to be the good guys that we knew for so long, that we keep asking the questions and having the discussions---all the while hoping for the good guy responses---even though we know deep down that our x's are not capable of that yet.
You hit the nail on the head, for me as well as for yourself. We need to work on shutting the hell up.
IMO, don't meet with him. You don't need to talk about it anymore. You verified that he was lying to you, then you apologized for the snooping way that you got the info. Now leave it. You've already told him you can't be his friend while he's in another relationship. You stated your boundary, so stick to it. Any further discussion is pursuing behavior and clouds the boundary. No more wishy-washy.
We know you love him. He knows you love him. He's not ready to love you, so leave him alone.
Me:40, xH:41 M:19 T:21 D14, S10, D6 IDLYA bomb:12/22/06 OW bomb (21 yr. old employee):12/23/06 H move out 2/07, OW move in 5/07 D papers served 6/07 D final Nov. 26, 08 :-(
Well, a vigorous workout and I feel tons better. Like a different person, actually. I think I will be able to sleep tonight. I need to shut down all my thoughts and get some much needed rest.
I don't have a lot to say, except I really regret my actions and even thoughts of the last 2 days. But, I can't change it, so I will forge on and chalk it up as an experience that I wish to never repeat!
My mind is in a good place right now, and while I would be silly to think it will last, I will go with it.
Let this be a lesson as what not to do! No matter how much you think you know the other person better (than the people on the board offering advice based on experience), no matter how much you want to convince yourself that your situation is different...there is no reinventing the wheel here.
I doubt that my story is over- however, any parts that have to do with XH will have to be written by him. Maybe that will happen and maybe it won't. I will go back to my crazy busy life and stop fixating on it all.
Oh, and I plan to continue on working on that part of me that feels just not good enough. I have no reason to feel embarrassed (and I have, believe me, I have) for my XH moving on.
My most humble and honest answer--- I want him to be someone he is not. I want him to love me. I want him to be the dad that he used to be. I want him to get help for his depression and to heal.
Then let him go Pam. You have to truly let him go and if he makes those changes for real and reenters your life, great. That is if you have not found something else that takes your heart by then. Otherwise why would you pursue something that does not currently meet your criteria for healthy?
Right now, stop the talking. Stop trying to look for the magical button that will fix him, it's not your job and you have not the power to heal him.
I see far to many times people that search so hard for the person that they fell in love with that they overlook the distinct possibility that he/she is actually gone. You want so bad to see the good that you are willing to tolerate things that you would bitch slap others for tolerating, this is the definition of self destruction.
I absolutely hate watching solid, good hearted, and intelligent people suddenly turn into exactly what they never wanted to be. Pam, step back from this, change the names in the story and see what you are really looking at here. Take the personal out of it and strictly look at this factually and see what you would recommend to someone else.
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None of those are in my control. And all the words in the world won't make them. I do understand that. Now I just need to keep working on shutting the hell up.
YEP, and moving forward at the same time. Do not simply shut the hell up and stand still, thats like watching the train coming and not getting off the tracks....doesnt make sense right?
