WAW - Very confused and devestated - pt 5

[confusedinpa]

Assignment for you:

Write a list of things she is saying and doing that you don't like and/or disagree with.

I gave this question some more thought. I think it is so hard for me to really answer is that she doesn't act/treat me the way it sounds like most WAW's do. The biggiest may be filing for a divorce, but even that's not quite right as most WAW just leave.

She treats me with kindness when it comes to our day to day lives. She pretty much still does whatever I ask (except when it comes to the divorce or sex). I think that's her core nature - she's trying to be a "nice girl" all the time, trying to please everyone. It's almost like she's the girl version of the guy in the book of No More Mr. Nice Guy.

I had told my friends over the weekend how she was the first "nice girl" I had met and was "marriage material" (vs. party/club girls). I think that's why I fell in "love" and married her. What they were surprised was that we hooked up almost the first nite (not all the way since it was a bad time of the month for her), but the second nite wasn't for her. They were both surprised as they thought she was a "nice girl" and she would have waited.

In retrospec, I was very forward (tough guy jerk) back then so when we were making out in her living room, I had told her to take her clothes off. She exposed her top, the whole time just saying she could not believe she was doing it. She said she had never hooked up on the first nite before or perhaps she was thinking it was going to be a one niter from a bar pickup. Before she got to her bottom she excused herself to the bathroom (I thought it was to take care of birth control or freshen up) and came back to appologized that she couldn't since it was a bad time for her. I told her that was ok we can do other things tonite but we can check tomorrow. Which we did and she was ready, and that's how our relationship started.

Most of our relationship together had been that way, I would just tell her what I wanted and she would comply. She would try to "beat around the bush" if she didn't like something, but often I would miss it/didn't hear it (particularly if it was something that I felt strongly about). I do noticed that when it was related to something that I didn't have a strong opinion on, I would notice/realize that she was "beating around the bush" with something. That was the issue that over the years, she built up all this resentment that's pushed her to this point.

From a more tactical/day to day type of things, it's more physical:

1 - When we hug, she hugs back and sometimes offers her check to me, but usually doesn't kiss me back on the check. I do this one thing where I lean in for a kiss, even on her check, and I would stop about an inch or so away so she would have to lean into me (something I have been doing since I started kissing girls).

2 - Of course the lack of sexual contact is something I don't like or agree with as well

3 - Her jabs/picking of the fight could just be me being overly sensitive to our situation. Perhaps it's the feeling of walking on eggshells that I still have - which I suspect is tied back to my sense that she still is reluctant to share her feelings.

So right now, the divorce is the most significant thing that I don't like/agree with is and that she's acting very selfishly by not wanting to do anything to improve our relationship. I feel she doesn't want to work on the relationship because she is still stuffing her emotions and not bringing them up till after she's built up some resentment. Thereby enabling her to hold onto her anger/hurt as she walks out of the marriage.

[confusedinpa]

I agree with SF. You did ask her plain and simple. She's taking every excuse she can to break away from you. Now is the time to start apologizing and standing up to her. When she went on about not inviting her, you should have stopped her and reminded her that you did.

The thing is there is a certain point where you have to have her stop treating you like a doormat. She's going to accuse you of doing the same them that you did in the past, but you know what? It's different. You say it very calmly and matter of factly and don't lose your temper.

Tell her you've given her everything that she has asked for, yet she still makes excuses for what you're doing. It's wrong and she has to start treating you with respect.

She says that she is hurt and is pouting like a teenager. She has to again realize that the feelings are all her own and you've been very polite and courteous to her.

Find a way to anticipate her next move and cut her off from it. You can guess that she's going blame you at your next C session.

I did stop her when she started about the "not being invited route". I said I was sorry that she felt that that she wasn't invited, but I did feel that I invited her by saying "I would love it if she would come". I also appologized that she felt that I was telling her vs. planning the trip with her, I can see how she interpreted it that way as I did make the tactical decision to tell her that way (I didn't say it that though). I did tell her that I had talked to my friend Weds afternoon and she had called shortly after I had worked it out with my friend.

I guess in hindsight, I should have reminded her that when I told her I was going to CT with the boys, and I had would have loved that she would have came, I had also told her that I was doing it to give her some time to think, which is what she had said she wanted. I see know she twisted it around to just be resentful this weekend and keep planning her moving out. The fact that she took the time instead to buy things that she would need when she moved out (her closet in the craftroom is full of stuff - i.e. throw pillows, comforter, etc.) Very disappointing, but it was what I had suspected she was going to do as well.

She is going to counseling with me tonite, but aside from the ones early on, she hadn't really blamed me for things. She spends most of the time talking about how she doesn't believe the changes. I'm planning on going into tonite's session talking about the positives from last week again (a shift in strategy that I started last Monday's session) since it at least got her more engaged/positive during the session.

This time around, I'm going to add about somethings that would enhance/raise the bar on the positives.

I also share during the session, my insights on how I view things differently, but this time I'm also going to work in trying her opinion/thoughts (she expressed some last time, but I'm trying to pull her into it more).

[confusedinpa]

Well I scheduled my third session with my coach today. It's the last one I had paid for already (I only bought 3).

I'm disappointed as clearly she is moving out, but I knew this day would come. I was hoping that my changes would come fast enough and be strong enough from getting to this point. Not just for me, but to prevent our kids from ever being impacted.

The odd part of it was this morning started out as every other morning. We did wind up hugging good morning and she leaned her check in for a kiss. We did hug good bye. We laughed and joked around as in every other morning. She mentioned that her mom can pick up our oldest from school on her way her to watch them so we can go to counseling.

Very un-nerving and confusing as she seems so ready to go out the door as well.

I know I can't control what she does, behaves or thinks. I can only influence it by controlling what I do, behave and think. There is just so much conflict in what she does. The most confusing part of it is to me is that, aside from the sex/physical, she is acting exactly the way she has always been through out our marriage.

I know my primary love language is physical, but it wasn't the sex that made me feel loved. Sex was actually one of our issues, as my depression had made me un-interested, so we would only be intimate ever 2-3 months. Ironically, she has said we have had more sex in the last 3 weeks (twice), than we had in the 4 months prior to the divorce bomb. What was odd is that I would get a different feeling from her when we were intimate prior to the divorce bomb, now it feels like just sex.

Since she's snapped me out of it with her divorce, all I can do is think about being intimate with her. Not just sex, but just to hold her. She in the past would always just touch my arm, shoulder, leg as her way to show me she loved me. That filled my heart but I never realized that I was letting her's run empty. I've been trying to fill hers again, even as mine is running empty (it's been filled by my sons, but it's not the same). Unfortunately, her's is closed to being filled by me.

I've limited/stopped a lot of the physical touches as she said they made her feel uncomfortable. Now I just give her hugs and check kiss when I am coming/going from the house. She keeps bringing up that she can't see it working as she still sees me as the person who negelcted her over the years and made her feel unimportant, unloved and emotionally abandoned.

She says she sees the changes and is proud that I've made them, but I do sense that she doesn't believe them. Perhaps she doesn't want to believe them. Who knows....

I need to remind myself that these changes are for me and the people who want to be around me. If that's not her, it will be her decision.

I still feel what I said to her last Friday morning was right, that I really do love her and believe the marriage can work. I also love her so much that I want her to feel free and I'm not going to stop her.

I used to beat myself up almost constantly everyday for not getting it earlier. Now I do it for a brief period about once/week - that's usually when I journal it on this forum

I'm sure my coach will be my cheerleader to pick me up. I was going to save this last session for the day after she moves out, but was feeling really disappointed today.

I guess it's part of the wild swings I must expect now that I've decided that I will allow myself to enjoy life (my depression was my way of controlling the down feelings, I would not enjoy life to limit the wild swings).

I had a great weekend with my boys up with my closest friend and his family up in CT. I will always have those positive/fun memories. I also know there will be more. I had hoped that my wife will be in those memories as well. I know that's her decision whether she will be there or not. I know I will be there for my boys.

I know one of the things that also hurt this weekend as she spent Sat nite with her friend and husband who are very happily married (HS sweethearts) and have a enjoy life attitude and let someone else worry about tomorrow. Her girlfriends is the one who she had vented with 2 years ago and had asked her what she would do if we didn't have kids. She had said leave. I know she's enabling my wife by saying you need to do what makes you happy. I'm not sure if she really understands what's she is doing. I'm tempted to talk to her girlfriend but I'm sure that will not be a good thing to do. I'm so confused and I'm hurting.

I feel like I've failed my kids...

I'm trying to have a good day but it is hard today.

[confusedinpa]

I just got off a call with one of my close friends.

She reminded me something that was really important - I'm not failing my kids as I'm not the one leaving. I made mistakes in the past, but I've learned from them and am making the right changes. It's her decision whether to be open to seeing/accepting the changes.

I can't live in the past of what could have/should been done or said. I need to live today and enjoy today and the future. Very similar to the Kung Fu Panda quote that goes something like the past is the past, that's why it's called history. The future is unknown. But today is a gift, that's why it's called the present. Or something like that, but I think you can get the gist of the message.

My wife is trying to be true to her feelings (so she says). She said on Friday before I left with the boys is that she feels that she loves and cares for me as a person, but just doesn't love me like a wife should love a husband which is why she wants to leave the marriage. She was crying when she said it.

I guess part of me I was hoping she would be sad over the weekend and miss me. That didn't happen. Instead she chose to find something to be angry and resentful about. That was her decision, it is impossible for me to be perfect enough to prevent her from every finding something to be angry/resentful about. I guess that's part of a person's choice to love - to be able to accept that person for all their faults.

I'm feeling much better now. It's amazing how talking to someone who understands and cares can change your day....

[AFWAW]

My wife is trying to be true to her feelings (so she says). She said on Friday before I left with the boys is that she feels that she loves and cares for me as a person, but just doesn't love me like a wife should love a husband which is why she wants to leave the marriage. She was crying when she said it.

My wife has said something very similar to me but has since recanted and now says she loves me. Keep your chin up. Now that she's moving out she may change her mind after she's been on her own for a while. You never know. I'm still trying to figure out how you can just all of the sudden not love someone. My wife is currently enjoying(or so it seems)her "single" life. I can only hope that she misses what she has very quickly and I hope the same for you. Remember, it's her decision not yours. You make the right one and take the high road always!

[AFWAW]

I'm feeling much better now. It's amazing how talking to someone who understands and cares can change your day....

Oh so true, it is nice to have an outside perspective as they can be less emotional and more objective as it is not happening to you. Keep getting support from those who will give it, just don't abuse it.

[confusedinpa]

Oh so true, it is nice to have an outside perspective as they can be less emotional and more objective as it is not happening to you. Keep getting support from those who will give it, just don't abuse it.

You are right about being careful not to abuse it. I've been building my network very slowly/carefully. I've got a married couple that is retired (I count them as 2 since the husband and wife are so different and when I talk on the phone, it's usually just one of them), a former co-worker, a person at work (who unfortunately works for me, but she is a WAW so its nice to get that perspective), a long time friend that is in DC and now my long time friend and his wife that I just came back from visiting in CT. I basically call each of them once every week or so. I allows me to get some support almost everyday.

And of course the people on this board.

Thanks for everyone time!

[confusedinpa]

I'm still working on what to say/do during counseling tonite. I have a call with my DB coach this afternoon so maybe I'll get some more answers then.

Last week I started the strategy of focusing on recent positives. Our counselor/my therapist had thought it was the most encouraing session yet as my wife seemed engaged/happy. Problem is, my wife nor I ever brought up her pushing the custody agreement and the fact that she said that the marriage would never work because she's not going to work on the relationship.

I think I'm going to stay on the positive route - may be tough to find some positives over the last week.

One of the positives that I had brought up at the prior session, was that it felt like she was opening up/getting more comfortable in sharing her feelings/needs. The example last Monday was how she expressed it was ok that I was caressing/touching her leg/feet and how she asked about going out on St. Patricks day with her girl friend even though she knew I had plans. The counselor commended us on the improvement and we talked about what's changed that made us comfortable to have that level of dialog (I know, more discussion of the past, but I ju-jitsu'd it around to emphasize why it's a real change).

So I thought about starting with this:

I feel that we were able to continue to build on how we are able to discuss things over the past week as well. I think we can enhance can enhance our comunication where we continue to feel free to express our feelings.

For example, last Tues it didn't work out for her going out on St. Patricks day. She expressed how she appreciated me accomodating what she wanted as well as sharing how she was disappointed that she it didn't work out going out with her girlfriend. I had sensed that there was something making her sad during dinner, but she didn't bring it up until after the kids went to bed.

One of the things I think we can both do is improve telling each other how we feel earlier - rather than walking on eggshells. I should have said something to her earlier that I felt that something was bothering her (I didn't because I thought it was related to our situation and didn't want to check her temperature). If we had talked about it at dinner, we could have had a more enjoyable evening.

Then I was going to talk about how she felt how I had discussed my trip to CT with her on Weds nite. Since I went out Weds nite with my friends, I didn't get a chance to really talk to her about it. I had sensed that something was bothering her again on Thursday nite. I wish I had said something then, but I'm guessing it was about my trip to CT and how I discussed it. I was glad that she felt comfortable sharing her feelings with me, but feel it would have been beneficial if she shared those feelings with me before Sunday.

I've a number of those that I can bring up as examples, but I would expect that our counselor will ask her why she didn't express her feelings earlier.

So it is starting to look like my theme will be for tonite's session will be I see improvements in our communications but still see that we are still uncomfortable with sharing them when they occur. This is hurting how we interact.

Any thoughts?

[working on me]

Hay confusedinpa, first off, I am so glad to hear you had a great weekend with the boys. Napping with your son, does it get any better than that.

Like I have said in another post, I am way to sucky at this to give you any good advice except to say, follow the advice of the DB Vets on here. They are looking out for you.

Now I can't say I am doing as they say either, but I am doing my best. I have failed a lot in the last week. Just read my posts and responses and see. By the way, if you are not already doing so, read other peoples posts you has given great insight because your 'actually detached' when you read them.
I have begun to read yours religiously. It's funny I think we handle and view some things in a similar way.

In your sitch, I can't say how fortunate you are that you still have physical contact the your wife. As in my case we haven't made love since december and we no longer hug or kiss. I stopped on the advice of those on this sight. I agonize over it daily!

Like you I don't know wether to go dark or just continue my 180. I never know what is working and I don't want her to think anything negative.

Well if you can put as much of what your DB coach tells you on here so that I may pirate some of the advice,LOL. I can't afford it otherwise I would spend every penny I had on it.

Hold your head high, your a strong man and a great father.

[MrBond]

When you kiss and hug in the morning, are you initiating it or are you still ignoring her and letting her come to you? If you are initiating, you've got to stop it. It's like an addiction where you're getting a "fix" from her. Again it shows your neediness.

At the C session, just be sure she doesn't go back to blaming you for things like this weekend. Remind her that you asked her and that you told her that you needed the time alone. Which is what she's been asking for. Again, you're not a mind reader and if she wanted to go, she should have just said so. You can't keep taking the blame for everything. It's called establishing a boundary and not being a doormat. There comes a point where our spouses have to learn to take personal responsibility.

The fact that your W isn't even thinking about what she wants shows that she's not dealing with anything. She hasn't learned a single thing and is bound to repeat the problems in whatever relationship she's in. I'm hoping your C can concentrate on her issues, then she can see that the problem isn't her M. It's her and her attitude.

I always find it odd that our WAWs continually say things about how they know what a M should be like and they know it's not supposed to be like this, or they don't give us the love that a W should. We are the ones who actually study and read up on what M should really be and they just "think" they do. Very sad.

My W did the same thing and I have to constantly remind her that she has a voice and that keeping it inside isn't going to make things better for her.

Again, just say it calmly and lovingly without accusing.

Also, you've got to think positive again. You mention that "it was going to happen". Who says? When you were dating her, you didn't know if you had a shot at her or not, but you stayed positive and got her. That's how you have to see things again. Stay positive so that you don't reflect any negative feelings.