WAW - Very confused and devestated - pt 5

[confusedinpa]

You just summed it up in your first sentence. "She said that was so selfish of me". Oh please. And her asking for divorce is not her being selfish to you?

After you tell her that she should leave since you obviously bring her so much unhappiness, tell her that all you're doing is giving her what SHE wants. She has nothing to get mad at. She doesn't want the house, she doesn't want you. She doesn't want the M. So what's the big deal? You're giving her everything she asked for.

I would recommend something drastic like that. She will get mad, but again, she can't blame you because once she sits and thinks about it, it is what she said she wants.

When it gets to that point, you tell her that there's only so many put downs you are going to stand their and take from her (which is true) and that you have been nothing but kind and compassionate to her.

If she refuses to leave, then you need to set a firm boundary and tell her that she must respect you and YOUR boundaries. That you will not be constantly blamed for things you did in the past and that she should look inwards and see how much she hates herself and what has happened in her past (such as her father). Say that she cannot threaten you anymore about C or anything else as you will not be 'controlled' by her any more. She will deny that she has been, but tell her she has.

If she expects you to respect her wishes, then she must respect yours. I think its time to step it up a notch so that she starts respecting you again. And that's what it comes down to. RESPECT.

She can't keep getting mad at you and expect you not to have any feelings. You're human and its about time she treated you as such. Our WAWs enjoy belittling us or seeing us as less than human so that it's much easier for them to leave and they feel better about themselves. Show her your 'man' side. Or rather, the new man you are. The one who is compassionate and listens to her needs, yet will not tolerate being stepped on and will not compromise on his convictions and beliefs.

Stuck,

That's a pretty radical direction with that one. I'm curious what kind of results people have gotten or their thoughts with that approach

Part of me really likes it and wants to wake her up right now to hit her with it. The other part of me is scared to death.

The approach I started at the last session, and for the following sessions had been to get her to talk about the positive changes that's she's seen. This would be a big swing from that approach. What do you think about bringing it up at the next counseling session?

[MrBond]

Actually it's not really a radical direction. You are reinforcing the idea that you care for her and understand her needs. The only difference is that you are now stating YOUR needs.

The thing about MLC is that the people under its spell will blame their spouse and family members that they are the ones at fault. It is a very selfish time for them, so all you're doing is lovingly giving her what she wants. She will also be prone to extreme mood swings which have been so evident just the past couple of weeks alone.

You don't have to be mean about it, just matter-of-factly, the same way she's been saying it to you.

Going back to the stray cat analogy. You've given her all the food, water and shelter but she still wants to roam free. Well, let her. She's leaving any way. The only thing you're doing is upping her schedule to what's convenient for YOU.

Just tell her that you were getting a little tired of being her punching bag and don't want to be angry at her. But if she insists of remaining angry at you for the past, then you would appreciate it if she not continue to treat you badly.

[confusedinpa]

Stuck,

Once again, you bring up a very interesting perspective to it. I'm going to talk to my therapist/counselor about it. It seems to make a lot of sense but I'm just worried about how my wife would percieve (I know, don't try to guess what she is going to do/think). When she dropped the bomb on me, she said that she expected one of two reactions. First was that I was glad that she did that as I wanted out (can NOT believe how she would have gotten that one). Second was that I would get angry/violent and throw her out.

This is a twist as I need to be sure I can stay calm and composed so it is delivered in a manner that I'm not throwing her out, but that I'm letting her out. Subtle sounding different but huge.

I hadn't really thought about being her punching bag. She has always done nice things for me during this situation, as long as its not things related to situation. For example, if there is a particular outfit or perfume that I want her to wear when we go out, she would. If she sees I need a drink or if I ask for a drink, she would make/get it. If she hear's I'm hungry, she will get/make things for me to eat.

I guess where she uses me as a punching bag, is that she continues to blame me for all her hurt and anger and isn't spending any time looking inward. I have to think about this one. I've gotten up to the point in the Love without Hurt book where it talks about the wife who feels emotionally abused lets go of her resent/anger/hurt. It actually seems to help me too as I feel like I'm the one being emotionally abused.

Something to think about and grow on....

[theroadback]

"So she had asked me to contact a real estate agent adn I told her that she can if she wants to. So tonite, she told me she did.

I reacted cooly with an "Oh. ok" Then she said what she thought we could get for the house based on the other houses selling nearby. I looked at her calmly and said "That's what I had thought".

Mentally I'm ok with selling the house as if we do get a divorce, it would be sold as part of the division anyway (she would get all the equity in the house as part of her 50%). If she gave the marriage another chance, we would want to sell it to get a fresh start (she said all the emotional abandoment started right after we moved into the house).

The she asked if I gave any more thought to custody. I said I haven't come up with anything new and asked what she thought. She told me which one of the two ideas she had presented already that she prefered. I just said "hmmmm, that's something to think about"

Then I made a comment about the show we were watching and the divorce/relationship conversation ended there.

So it looks like this divorce train is heading full speed ahead."

I think she is saber rattling myself.
When people see someone change like you have it makes them feel uncomfortable ...she wants you to change back to your hurt depressed self. She see’s that you are stronger and that you do not seem to hurt anymore and you are independent ... she wants you to be hurt because it makes her feel truly cared about… sick I know ….I have been here and done that.
So she contacted a realtor ok so what.....so when does she want to list it?

[confusedinpa]

Theroadback,

I hope you're right. It had really rattled me, but I tried to stay calm/buisness like - good thing I spend so much time negotiating as part of my job.

It was an awkward morning as we chatted lightly but she wouldn't make eye contact. I still felt pretty upbeat/positive so I acted as if it was any other morning. I did move towards her to give her a hug good bye, but I got a cue that she didn't want one. Fortunately my youngest was right next to her so I gave it to him instead!

I had a busy day at work this morning. She wound up sending me an email with a joke (seems like she emails/text me almost everyday - I do not initiate, I let her send the first one). I usually only wait between 15 to 60 minutes to respond, but since I was tied up, I responded about 3.5 hours later. She responded back right away. Don't understand nor am I trying to.

I go to my therapy appointment later today and will be going out with my buddies for beer and wings this evening. I know it will be a good time.

I'm still debating whether to visit my friends up in Conn. I would like to bring my kids. I was planning on bringing it up to her that she had said she wanted a few days to think by herself so I was doing that to help. I think she will be afraid if I take the kids I won't come back with them (crazy thinking).

She actually just called to set up a time for us to go to the seminar of children and divorce. We have it April 20th. I didn't react emotionally, I just treated it as another business meeting I was trying to schedule.

So the train now has another stop.....

I really don't see any chance/hope with saving this marriage as she's hell bent on moving forward.

I do think a separation will help at that point, I need to figure out how to press it without totally alienating her.

[confusedinpa]

I got of the phone with my buddy up in CT. Sounds he and his family is open to visitors so that's lined up. I'm going out with my friends tonite. I guess I'll bring my trip up to my wife tomorrow nite. Not sure if I should do this on the phone or after I'm out drinking with my friends

Either way this plays out, I need to keep doing this for me and my boys

[theroadback]

She wants a divorce about as bad as you do right now. Children and divorce? you should have her watch children of divorce..watch how bad divorce screws up kids. everyone that has seen that show that I know cried.... yes even the men.

I dont understand the email .....can I ask what was your response was to the joke that she sent?

[confusedinpa]

I dont understand the email .....can I ask what was your response was to the joke that she sent?

All I sent back was:

That was a good one!

[MrBond]

I don't think she's saber rattling. You do that if you have a bluff with someone. So far your W hasn't had any bluffs for you to call. She wants out.

She's been nice to you when she wants to. I think its because she does feel bad about hurting you. But it seems to be LRT time. She's talking about a children and divorce talk? I mean, c'mon. She's leading you around and calling the shots. Remember, if what you're doing so far isn't working, then do something else.

And I do believe she has been using you as an emotional punching bag. What she's been doing during this passage of time is fortifying her resolve to D. I think it is weird that she can be cold, yet TM you something funny. Maybe don't answer at all when she does it. If she asks why you didn't answer later, just tell her you were busy. Maybe start have her really feel the loss. The reason why I recommend this is that when you didn't call to "check-in" the other day, she was really worried. You need to capitalize on that insecurity.

Not to be an @$$ about it, but I think you need to do something to shake the ground she's walking on. When I decided I wasn't going to take any emotional abuse anymore from my W, I told her I love her very much, enough to let her go. I rehashed who she was as a person and held her morals and ethics to the fire. I told her that would not compromise my ethics for her "newfound" ones and that she was free to leave. I was upfront about how she agreed we both contributed to our problems and that if she stuck it out, it would be hard but do-able. All the stuff I was journaling about her I brought out and hit her with (figuratively). I tried to do it with as much compassion for her that I could, but I just didn't want to be blamed for her unhappiness.

I was detached enough that if she stayed I'd be fine, if she left I'd be fine. It was HER journey not mine. I told her I would love to be a part of her journey and where I wanted to help her achieve her dreams and desires. But she would need to want it. Then it came down to what she wanted. I kept asking her, but she had no answer because your typical MLC person has no idea what they want.

And what did my W do? She THANKED me for talking to her. Then a couple of days later she apologized to me for acting mean about a small incident. Something she had not done in over a year. Sometimes I think the MLC person has to be reminded of who they are and what they can become. This takes the focus off the past and instead shows them potential.

Maybe you need to switch her emphasis off the M which is what she doesn't want and what is it that she DOES want. Show her that you can help her achieve what she desires in the context of the M.

She wants to date someone new? Well you are a new person. The benefit is that you are also someone she trusts.

She wants to have a bigger house? Who says she can't do that now?

It comes down to you taking a stand rather than you being hit by all her little backslides.

[confusedinpa]

I don't think she's saber rattling. You do that if you have a bluff with someone. So far your W hasn't had any bluffs for you to call. She wants out.

She's been nice to you when she wants to. I think its because she does feel bad about hurting you. But it seems to be LRT time. She's talking about a children and divorce talk? I mean, c'mon. She's leading you around and calling the shots. Remember, if what you're doing so far isn't working, then do something else.

Stuck808,

Unfortunately, I do believe you are right about the saber rattling. I talked to my therapist about it today and her read is that my wife doesn't seem to have the "strength" to actually leave. It seems that by selling the house, she's just moving (with me moving to a different place).

She actually just called to say that the realtor can come around this Sunday to meet wit us.

I'm pretty sure I shook up her ground when I told her that I am taking the boys with me up to CT to visit my friends so I doubt if I'll be back by then. She asked if I was going to tell them anything and I said no (I already did, but didn't think she needed to know that).

She called back and asked if they would think it was weird if we just came by ourselves. I told her she was welcome to come but thought it would be a good opportunity to give her the time alone that she wanted to think about what she wanted. I told her I would just tell them that she wasn't feeling well.

She called back again and asked what time I was leaving on Friday. I said shortly after lunch and she reminded me that I would have to make arrangement to pick up my oldest from school early. I thanked her for reminding me.

I am thinking Last Resort Technique time as well. I remember reading it about it a while back, but the problem is she still has the DR book in the spare bedroom. I know she hasn't read it as I took a picture of how it was left a couple of weeks ago and it hasn't moved. I'm sure if I took it she would notice - reinforcing that I'm just going by a script. Can you help summarize or give some insight of what LRT looks like?

My therapist even mentioned about how last session my wife seemed happy and engaged/involved in my "positivity" discussion. I told her that what my wife didn't tell her was about what happened during the weekend where she basically said that the relationship will never work as she's not going to work on it. And how she was done trying to be nice and do things for me like going to counseling. My therapist was a little shocked. She thought that my wife is getting upset now as I am happier than she is.

Her take on it is similar to your's where she feels my wife is just trying to avoid making me angry and skate through the divorce process. She agreed that I need to give the "open the cage door, you're free speech" and the kids are staying with me speech and I'm not selling the house. She should just leave and figure out what she wants. I'm going to do that on Tuesday after counseling.

We also talked about my "enabling" behavior that is hurting my cause when my wife gets down about the situation. She said what was said here, that when I comfort her, I help her move to the next step. Can't believe I was so dumb. Guess I'm back to a white belt. I will not make the same mistake. She said I should just agree with her feelings (i.e. when she says the situation is bad, I should say, yes it is a bad situation).

So much drama. I'm off to have some beer and wings with my buddies. Should be a good time. I'm really looking forward to this weekend - seeing my buddy I haven't seen in a while.

I am good and will survive to thrive for me and my boys.