WAW - Very confused and devestated - pt 5

[confusedinpa]

This morning it still seemed like something was bothering her. She seemed to act just a little softer. Not sure what this means, but it's not really affecting my mood. I do feel concern for her as she is my wife and I do love her.

She sent me a text about mid-morning complaining about work stuff from last friday. I tried to be supportive via a text back. We traded a few more text messages back and forth. She wound up saying for tonite, before the counseling session, that we could go out to dinner at a resturant that she has been talking about all weekend. So it sounds like she's going to counseling.

Now I just got a text asking if I'm still planning on going out with my buddies on Tues. I text her back that I haven't heard for sure yet. She text back saying that her divorced friend is looking to go out. She's the one who is anti-divorce.

So the saga continues. It's a busy day at work for me, but I'm still having a good day.

[spellfire]

Spellfire,

Any more thoughts on this one?

Phew, busy weekend. I was going to get back to you on this one, but I actually think stuck nailed it a few posts back. Now is a great time to start thinking about some boundaries, especially with regards to her blaming you.

Not sure how far you are through your current book, but I think this is the perfect time to pick up "Hold on to Your NUTS". It covers boundaries in a concise and easy to understand manner, and it will get you thinking about what you are willing and not willing to tolerate.

The good thing about boundaries is that as you set them and internalize them, you become more decisive, strong, and in-control without being controlling.

[confusedinpa]

I'm having a tough day at work - I have to tell about 1/3 of our salaried work force that in addition to their 10% pay cut, that they will also be furloughed 1 week/month for next quarter. Very depressing time.

That's probably what is also getting me torn/anxious of her going out with her friends. That has been one of my issues in the past that she felt controlled about. I know that the last couple of times I "let" her go out over the past few weeks, she came home in a really good mood and it helped our relationship. I'm just anxious as this could be her way of getting ready/comfortable with the idea of being single again and going out. In the past I was worried she was seeing someone else or would meet someone else or was looking for someone else. Very irrational thought process. I guess I still haven't been able to get that anxiety under control. Particularly, as that would be exactly what she would do if we were divorced.

I'm trying to recompose myself (don't want to lose my DB orange belt) before I see her.

Other thing is to decide what to say in counseling tonite.

I was thinking about saying a little of what stuck and what others have said in various other threads suggested:

I feel like I've gotten alot out the sessions as I have been very open to find out what was wrong with me. And these have been reflected in my changes. Last Weds our oldest son really drove it home to me when he commented about how I was acting differently. When I asked him in a good way or bad way? He said definitely a good way. That's when it really hit me why I was making these changes and it really reinforces that I need to make sure these changes becomes habits.

I still believe in the marriage and that the relationship can work, but right now she doesn't feel that way as she has choosen to hold onto her anger/resentment and not work on the relationship (she said that to me Sat nite).

I will always be sorry for how I've hurt her emotionally in the past and I've appologized for that. I know that regardless of the path that we head down we will always have a relationship because of our kids. I feel we will both need to be able to let go our anger/resentment to make sure we have a relationship where our kids will always feel loved by both parents.

What do you think? Too much Hallmark? Too confrontational? Too much like a campagn speech? Or what?

[spellfire]

but right now she doesn't feel that way as she has choosen to hold onto her anger/resentment and not work on the relationship

^ delete, stop reminding her.

I will always be sorry for how I've hurt her emotionally in the past and I've apologized for that.

^ delete, you have said sorry already. Time to stop reminding her.

I know that regardless of the path that we head down we will always have a relationship because of our kids.

I feel we will both need to be able to let go our anger/resentment to make sure we have a relationship where our kids will always feel loved by both parents.

^ Reminding her again about her anger/resentment and telling her she needs to let it go (controlling).

How about this:

"Even though I wont be able to remain friends with you if you choose to leave, I know we will still need to have contact for the sake of the kids. All I ask is that no matter what happens, we treat each other with respect and set a good example for them."

Something like that, may someone else can chime in.

[confusedinpa]

Spellfire,

Those are good points. Relative to "Even though I wont be able to remain friends with you if you choose to leave,..." Would that cover the separation as well or would it be in the case of a divorce. Seems like it would be hard to DB if she moves out and I tell her I won't remain friends - unless that's part of going dark/last resort technique. I'm just trying to be prepare my wall as she seems hell bent on moving on with the separation/divorce

I had thought this weekend's "reality check" by her was a major setback, but the reality is that this is no change from when she dropped the bomb. She had said during the first 1-2 weeks, when I was an emotional wreck, she considered withdrawing the divorce petition as I wanted to work on the marriage, but obviously she decided to just continue. Perhaps if I was DB'ing right away it would have helped, but I can't change the past.

The counselor always starts by asking us how things are going so I just want to be prepared with something. The message I'm trying to send is to to reinforce how I've changed and the changes are real. Originally the second half was to get her to talk about her hurt/anger and trying to let it go, but I guess I should drop that part. Perhaps I should just close with I believe that the marriage can still work and recognize some recent positive

Anyway, how about this:

These sessions have been helpful as I have been very open to find out what was wrong with me. And these have been reflected in my changes. Last Weds our oldest son really drove it home to me when he commented about how I was acting differently. When I asked him in a good way or bad way? He said definitely a good way. That's when it really hit me why I was making these changes and it really reinforces that I need to make sure these changes becomes habits.

Now I still believe in the marriage and that it can work. I feel that we are now more open to sharing and we're getting more comfortable with talking.

Hopefully the counselor will try to bring up getting past and letting go of her anger - our counselor touched on that for the first time in our last session.

[confusedinpa]

Well I worked it out with my buddies that we'll go out on Weds so I'm going to tell my wife that she can go out with her girl friend on Tues. Guess this will be another test of my anxieties....

[confusedinpa]

I think we had a good counseling session.

It started off a lightly shaky at dinner as she felt really tired and her ankle was bothering her. She continued to complain about her weight. I tried to change subjects and get her to talk about things that she was up/positive about or at least not be grumpy about. I did tell her I was able to work out going out with my buddies on Weds instead of Tues. We were just going for beer and wings (we didn't even realize it was St. Patricks day). I told her that I had thought her's was a St. Patricks day thing. As I knew she wanted to go out, I wanted her to be have the freedom to go.

When we got to counseling, she was starting to be in a better mood.

Our counselor asked how it was going. I tried to get me wife to start but she looked at me and said go ahead.

I didn't use the exact words as I wanted it to sound natural, but got the message accross of how I felt that the sessions have been helpful as I was open to finding out what was wrong with me and how that has helped me change. I told my story of my oldest son recognizing the changes which reinforced my intent of making the changes permanant by making the changes in behaviors into habits. My counselor applauded how it was signficant breakthrough in me. We then explored how my changes aren't just for my wife, but how it is making positive impact on the people around me (i.e. friends, children, work).

We really talked up the positive changes and how significant they were. My counselor talked about how it is possible to make these real permanant changes.

My wife even then brought up examples of how I used to handle things in the past that would make her very upset and brought up examples of how I handle things differently. I could see she was trying to speak of it not in terms of positive, but more of giving the example as not negative (i.e. how I didn't act controlling, or unsupporting).

I then got into how I still believe in the marriage and that it can work (I think that part of my statement was lost in all the discussions though). I felt that we felt more comfortable sharing and talking. I used the example from earlier last week where she moved her foot after I was carressing her leg/foot. In the past I would have over analyzed what she did and why, but recognized how she was able to express that it felt good and she was just shifting to get comfortable.

My wife then brought up the example of how in the past she would have been reluctant/afraid to ask about going out with her friends on Tuesday. She recognized how she asked and that I was able to work it out so I went out Weds instead so she could go out Tuesday.

Then she did go into how in the past when she did want to go out I would be upset. Our counselor asked why that was.

Fortunately I had gotten to the part of relationships in Love without Hurt. I didn't reference the book (recalling how it didn't go over well in the last counseling session when I referenced 5 languages of love). I talked about how in the past I felt we had to stay and function together purely as a 4 person family unit. That was my unhealthy paradigm of what a perfect family unit did. I never had that growing up - my dad left when I was 1 month old and my mom was always working so my grandma raise my sister and I.

I see how that paradigm was wrong as it stifled any freedom the individuals had and created an unhealthy codependency. I see now what makes the relationship of the family important are the individuals. It is important that each of us are able to develop as individual by interacting with our friends, co-workers, community and others around. That is what had attracted me to my wife, was her as an individual, not as a mom in a "perfect" four family unit.

My wife then talked about how I had these "crazy" expectations in the past of doing everything together. That's when I worked in that was then, this is now and I get it now.

My counselor said how my wife seems to be an easy person to talk to so it was good that I see that now and am comfortable in talking with her.

I shared with her how in the past I was afraid to share my fears with my wife as I didn't want her to see I wasn't the tough guy. I see how that was irrational. I talked about I had been afraid with her medical issue and how I was afraid of being sure I was going to be a good father when my first son was born. I said I was afraid as I have never seen/known what being a good father was so I made up an "image" of what that meant by myself. I see how that image was flawed now as well as recognize how I should have just talked to my wife about it. My counselor then remarked how attractive that is for women that a guy can share his fears as that was extremely intimate. I didn't get it, but just agreed anyway.

On the way home from counseling, we did talk and laugh about various light topics (no relationship talk) about our her co-worker's quirks/behaviors would annoy us. I did recognized how her attention to detail behavior makes her so good for her job as an auditor.

Not sure how it helped the relationship or save the marriage, but I had an enjoyable evening and thought it was positive.

I feel like I'm make very significant changes for me.

[MrBond]

Great and that's all that matters.

All of the things your W have been doing are so opposite the typical WAW. Even her worrying because you didn't call. I mean many of our spouses are glad we're not around.

You're doing fine.

[confusedinpa]

Great and that's all that matters.

All of the things your W have been doing are so opposite the typical WAW. Even her worrying because you didn't call. I mean many of our spouses are glad we're not around.

You're doing fine.

Spellfire

I do appreciate your optimism

She seemed to be back in full WAW mode this morning as she wouldn't even look at me. I wound up getting up early as I had an early meeting today

The boys and I had a good morning getting ready for work and school. Before I left with my 7 year old, I did tell her "Have a great day! Have fun tonite"

I did ask her to let me know when she may get home whenever she knew. Probably crossed the line but I did feel that was a boundary of mine

[theroadback]

I feel that the concern your wife had was more of a jealousy thing which shows that she still has feelings for you. I think it’s a really good sign.

My waw does the same thing, actually becomes very upset, if I run a errand and seems to take longer than it should she starts questioning me.

It is something I have a hard time understanding. I mean she treats me like she does not care so what is the difference if I am with someone else? I take it as she really does care deep down inside but she is trying to suppress those feeling, she is keeping the wall up but peeking over it at times.
I think you are doing great keep it up.

I am also thinking that this is going to turn around but it is going to get scary for you. I say this because I feel that you are going have to show that you are not afraid of the divorce.

You will have to show this by cooperating in everyway you can. I think your actions in delaying things are hindering your progress a little but it is understandable.
I think your wife test your feelings by bringing up the divorce. She sees the fear and the hurt and she then feels that you still care.
When you take this away she will stop bringing it up because she will not get anything out of it anymore.

I did this with my wife and pretty much all D talk has stopped.