I posted this on my other old thread but thought this was a more apt title.
I was looking for those old MLC threads for a reason. I have just found the "acceptance" stage of the six stages of MLC and explanation of reconnection a good refresher.
Briefly my story was:
Bomb April 04 MLC WAH confessed OW Drop out type of MLC man Uneventful/administrative D as of April 06 Not much drama nor contact with WAH.
In other areas of my life I am still unemployed. My father's cancer has worsened and I believe he has turned the corner for the worst and given up trying. I don't think he will be around much longer.
I just heard Sunday that my grandma (who is 88) had a heart attack. She was not doing well at first and had also contracted pneumonia. She suddenly improved but is still not out of the woods.
Since the bomb and subsequent D, XH would contact me every 6-12 months for some manufactured reason which I attributed to a "touch and go" or just a look to see if I was still around.
This past Thanksgiving he called to tell me of an injury to "our" dog who has remained in his custody. We chatted about various superficial topics such as work, the election, politics, the pets, etc. and it was the longest phone conversation we have had in years at something like a whopping 20 minutes. This was the first time that we have talked (for me at least) where I have not been the least bit nervous or had any expectations or anything (as it is now, for the most part). I thought nothing of it and went on with life already in progress.
Then at Christmas time he called and left a message because I was unavailable. He had called to wish me a Merry Christmas for the first time in four years. Big Deal, right? I thought it was kind of significant because for one, he called twice in a months time period and that was the first time he has ever called without a "manufactured" excuse. I returned his call the next day which was Christmas Eve morning and also had to leave a message. I thanked him for wishing me a Merry Christmas and said I appreciated it and hoped his was a good one also.
Life goes on...
In early February I was poking around in Facebook (of which I have been a member since last summer) and I put in a search for XH and he was not there. This is no surprise because though very computer literate, he just wasn't into them for fun or connection. Next I search for OW (that he left me for) and there she is big as day. She happens to have an open profile so I read all her posts and looked at her pictures and so forth and ascertained that she is with a new guy (not my XH) and has been for quite some time. So, of course I wondered, if XH is not with her...where did he land?
Unable to let my curiosity sit, I called him to inquire how the dog had recovered from his injuries (my "manufactured" excuse) and to say "hi" and "chat" if he wanted, etc. I left a message to that affect since he did not answer.
So a month went by and he called last Sunday evening apologizing that it had taken so long for various work reasons, yada yada. We had a nice conversation in which he told me about his new website for his business and other things mostly relating to his work. He also relayed the dog's condition and that he is getting old and told me a couple of stories and said "remember when...?" about the dog. He said the dog is "getting old" and I said something like "well, he had a good life..." and XH said he thought the dog's old life (while we were together) was better and reminisced about that. He gave me the website address and e-mail address and suggested I check it out. I said something encouraging and said I would check it out. He said he had to go meet a friend (a guy) and he would call me back in a couple hours and see what I thought.
I was just checking the website out when he called some 40 minutes later while driving, to ask what I thought. I said some affirmative things and then he asked if I would like to meet him for a beer (by this time it was obvious he had been drinking)" for old times sake" and because "he hasn't seen me in ages." He said "you do know that I have no hard feelings for you..?" I thought WTF! but I said "I didn't know that but I know that now" and then said "sure, I could do that." The he said "well, you don't have to" and I said "do you mean right now? tonight?" and he said "yes...well I'll let you think about it...I'll call you back in a half hour." He did call back in a half hour and "I said I would meet him and asked where, etc." He said again "you don't have to..." to which I replied "yes, I would like to see you." We made our plan and I went. I have not seen him in person for three years, since right before I found out our D was final.
When I arrived he was outside having a smoke. He hugged me really hard, though a "side" hug and we went in and sat down and he stared and smiled at me for what seemed like an eternity with good eye contact, etc. We exchanged the usual "you look good, etc" and the first thing he said was that he was not with that "girl" anymore (OW) and remembering my DB roots I said "oh, I'm sorry to hear that." He said "don't be sorry" and then I said "well, can I ask what happened?" He said a couple of years into it she started getting obssesive and nutty and doing things like peeking into his windows in the middle of the night and her behavioral patterns bore themselves out "but he didn't know that at the time..." These behavioral patterns were that though her husband was abusive she had had a couple of "flings" on him and cheated in the past. XH said she did some "sneak backs" to her XH and then started "messing" with this other guy so he "busted up with her." He said he loved her but those issues plus all the drama in her life and her three children with varying hormone levels and her loopy sisters and her wanting him to "be the dad" were just too much. She was also "all up in his business" which I took to mean that she had him on a short leash (like someone you can't trust). This is where it is very difficult fo the LBS not to say I told you so, but I didn't. I just listened. He did not seem to make the correlation that he was also one of the people she cheated on her husband with.
He then said for the past couple years now he has been dating a girl he met on the job. He said she has no children and the only "complicating factor" there is that her mom rents a room from her and the mom runs the house. The "new" GF happens to be on vacation for two weeks therefore he was "on his own" while she is gone.
XH then asked if I had a significant other and I said "no, I hadn't really dated much..." then he interuppted to verify that at some point (late '06) "some guy was living with you, right?" I laughed and asked where he got that idea. Apparently he had called once and was going to call back and told him to call my cell phone. That was when I was discontinuing my home phone and I guess that's the conclusion he came up with. I just went on to say that "no one good has come along since I've wanted to." He repeated "since you wanted to" and sat silently for a moment then said "I guess you put me in my place." I think that meant he is realizing that his departure had an impact on me (duh!). While talking about OW and her family, her XH etc he paused and said it was difficult to talk about because "there is a lot of hurt there" (what about me, a-hole!)
I'm trying to make this short but it isn't working very well so I'll just try to make a few key points.
He said something to bait me regarding my supposed lack of faith in his business and "I said when have I ever not done that?" (had faith in him) and he said I did not support him. This is a perception he obviously still carries. I didn't want to argue but I reminded him of something I said and when that illustrated my full support of that. He did not reply. Then he said "you got complacent...but so did I". Somewhere in the conversation he said he held me in the "highest regard" and really "respected" me, etc. which felt like when a girl tells a guy "we can be friends."
He also told me of a "nightmare" he keeps having where he is looking down at our old house but now it is on an island and you can't get to it. He doesn't know what happens next because he wakes up but it is "bad." I just did a lot of listening and he talked about himself a lot. Previously he has been very closed and intitially secretive about what he is doing, etc. so I was quite surprised he gave me his web address and e-mail and volunteered all this information about his personal life, OW, etc. Somewhere in there he said "you probably have hard feelings for me though" It caught me off guard because it wasn't a question and I didn't really say anything. He also said I had his permision to be bitter (more testing). I said that "I am not bitter...it took a while but I had made peace with things...for the most part." Near the end I was in the restroom and came out and he was on the phone. I got back to my seat and he continued finishing the call for a few seconds while looking confused. He hung up, set the phone down and stared at it for a minute. He returned to the convo and we went outside for a smoke and he put his coat on.
Outside he told me I need to take care of myself and hugged me again and said he had to work tomorrow and left kind of abruptly. When hugging me he said something like take care and said a shortened version of my name (which he has never said before). When were together it was "hon", then from the split up until now it was my full name.
The whole thing was about an hour and a half but that was the gist of it. I was wondering if anyone has thoughts about whether this was some beggining of reconnection or what the meaning is behind it. He does have that new GF...but did not talk about her much or seem enthused about her. I guess I have never completely slammed the door and have a morbid curiosity to see what may develop from this, if anything. I'm not sure what I should "do" next.
If you are out there Snodderly, I would love to hear your thoughts because you are so experienced and knowledgeable about this.
What do you have to lose in seeing where this goes if it starts going there?
You can even be direct and point blank ask him, rather than wonder what he is thinking. Be honest, "This came out of the blue and I'm wondering what brought this about. I'm not trying to shut you down, I'm just curious if you wanted closure or were looking to mend bridges?"
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
Heavens no, not just Snodderly! Everyone, please, anyone who has a comment.
To answer your question..."Nothing." I have nothing to lose by seeing what develops. In fact I wasn't all that nervous about meeting him because I have nothing left to lose in that department. I am very curious, but I'm not sure if the direct approach would be productive or at least not yet at this point.
During the MLC or whatever you want to call it, he was a runner and the slightest diplay of directness or bluntness or anything that would make him feel guilty sent him into a tirade or scurrying away, not to be heard from for months.
To be honest I'm not sure if I have anything to lose.
Like I said I have never really slammed the door and would probably still consider another try if XH made a move in that direction.
Like we all used to talk about though, I would have to see actions and desire and remorsefullness and all that from him for that to even be considered.
Right now, today he does not seem to possess any of those qualities but has made some obvious steps in my direction, whatever his motive may be.
If you subscribe to the theories of the Six Stages of MLC and the Reconnection thread he appears to be at the beginning stages of acceptance and this is where the LBS is not to jump and push and otherwise scare the MLC back into the tunnel.
I am now somewhat wondering what he is thinking but over the years have learned not to obssess about unanswered questions.
So, I guess my loaded answer is that no, right now I have nothing to lose, but I feel I may lose the potential of something good, if I screw it up now.
Although, neither XH nor I have been very good at the direct approach in the past. It would be something different.
For background me and my wife are piecing, divorce busted, so I usually only offer advice that I think applies. And I know the stages and the resources back and forth.
I guess with him coming around, I figure he should be tough enough to be able to handle some directness from you, that what I did with my wife. In fact I was no where near as nice as I suggested you be in my directness.
Quote:
Although, neither XH nor I have been very good at the direct approach in the past. It would be something different.
My question to you then is this.
Do you want your old broken marriage back then and if not, when do you change the dynamic of it?
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
GG, you are a veteran poster, not to say that you are old, just been at this for awhile. Its possible that your XH is trying some sort of reconnection, but based upon his responses to meeting with you "you don't have to" etc. I am concerned that he won't be able to admit he did wrong, nor he might not be able to do the work needed. GG, the big problem with this whole thing IMO is the fact that most people regardless of the concequeces are not willing to admit they did wrong. That makes it SUPER TOUGH for the LBS to make a go at a new relationship. I also believe that an MLCer that doesn't come back with the hat in the hand, truly didn't come out of it the way they needed to and is subject to do it again. I also look at the respect factor, how can you respect someone that you crapped on then just come back with no concequences? I think that a lot of people are so desperate to have thier former spouse back that they overlook these things. Just my .02 worth.
GG, the big problem with this whole thing IMO is the fact that most people regardless of the concequeces are not willing to admit they did wrong. That makes it SUPER TOUGH for the LBS to make a go at a new relationship. I also believe that an MLCer that doesn't come back with the hat in the hand, truly didn't come out of it the way they needed to and is subject to do it again. I also look at the respect factor, how can you respect someone that you crapped on then just come back with no concequences? I think that a lot of people are so desperate to have thier former spouse back that they overlook these things. Just my .02 worth.
This is why we acknowledge that the old Marriage is dead.
This is where forgivness comes in.
IF you are looking for a Hollywood ending complete with apology and flowers and chocolates, sorry, you won't get it in the begining.
Piecing, or as Jack likes to call it, Piercing is hard.
It actually takes a good couple of years for the Marriage to really and truly feel "normal" again after the MLC'er comes home.
My Husband has been home for almost two years now after a lengthy MLC. Our life together is very different now. We have a completely different relationship then the one we had before MLC.
I like my Marriage better this way. I do not take things for granted anymore, and neither does he.
Sorry for my rant, but again, I totally disagree with Braveheart about this, and wanted to give my .03 cents worth.
There can be no testimony without a test. I am praying to go through this test and come out the other end with a new and better marriage then before.
Well, I respect everyone's opinions, but I believe that part of the problem with MLC is people do not hold them accountable for thier actions. I'm sorry, I have a big heart, but at the same time in these cases a lot of damage has been done to the LBS, children, and countless others. I just believe there should be some accountability, responsibility, and admission of wrong doing in all of this. BND, I am truly happy that your Marriage is back better than ever!! Good for you!! For the record, I don't believe in hollywwod endings, in fact I am a major realist, if you didn't already know that! Being a realist I have to say that your situation is one of extreme rarity here. Again, not to say that it doesn't happen, but many more often times than not, it won't. Maybe in GG's case it will though. Just M.O.
