PM Thread #4

[PositivelyMommy]

Hi Sandi, thanks for your truly kinds words! First of all, I have read many of your threads and never have I thought you gave two-by-fours, you just told the truth as you see it. I am that way also. To us, it's not about nice or not but more importantly what the truth of the matter is. So don't worry about hurting my feelings, they are not hurt. I understand that a difference of opinion does not equate to not liking or respecting someone. Two separate issues altogether!

I find that our normally articulate, capable husbands can be totally mute of matters on the heart. They really ARE unable to communicate and process feelings the way we women can. So what you have now is a sitch that seems like each thought the other were not there for each other. No use crying over who is right and who is wrong, you know that. So I guess you want to start right now to validate him and feel OK about it inside yourself. It's easy!!! Really easy, Sandi!!!

I read somewhere that general compliments do not work for guys. Don't ask me why, just is. But compliments with specifics works like magic.

E.g. "Thanks for doing the yard work yesterday" can be turned into 'The garden looks so much better after you put the new mulch down. It smells good and looks good. That was a great idea that you had to buy more perenials this year. It looks SO much than last year. I love it! I love the smell of freshly cut grass too, thanks so much, the yard looks fantastic. How about I make your favorite dessert tonight to thank you in return?'

OR

"You look nice today" to "Wow, that shirt and tie combo really looks good on you. Your skin looks more tanned and your eyes really come out with the blue on that shirt. Hunky! Want to fool around tonight?"

Now, it doesn't hurt to think up things in advance either. Would you go into an interview without preparing for it? Would your favorite football team go into a game without a plan? Just jot a few things down that you like about your H. Then write down specifics about those things. Be truthful, don't makeup something to say just because you are stuck. Try to have it come from the heart. Then when the moment is right, pop, out it comes! He may or may not be used to it at first so could be a little wary but on the inside he will swoon. Now, if you guys are not on good terms and he accuses you of being fake but since you really mean these compliments (you do, don't you?) you can just tell him honestly (making eye contact) that you mean it. I doubt that will happen though, my H and I are not on the greatest terms now but he reacts very positively when I give re-enforcements. Guys are suckers for compliments.

Now, regarding feeling fake - you may or maybe feel comfortable the first time you do it. But it is like riding a bike. (My daughter just start a two-wheeler.) You may be wobbly at first, unsure of yourself and stumble a little over your words. DON'T WORRY. The more you practice, the more comfortable you will feel. Nothing new feels comfortable, everything takes a little time to get used to, right? So give it a shot, give him a specific compliment today. See what happens, I will wait for your good news.

[Can it work]

PM, I've just written a gargantuan post on my own thread and I'm planning on going to sleep soon. I just thought I'd check in on you though and saw that you asked me a question about explaining what you could to change the mind of a 'Nice Guy' if he'd tried everything in the past to please you but not succeded.

In a way, that's a hard question for me to answer because in my sitch I'm the nice guy who isn't willing to give up just yet. Down the line, I may be in a position where my W wants me back but I've moved on. Who knows?

I'll tell you what I can. The way I found out about Divorce Busting and this site was from MWD's book on sex starved marriages. Initially I thought that the only problem in my marriage was that we'd stopped being intimate. I tried everything I could to initiate it and try and get my W interested again but nothing seemed to work. Even non sexual affection was being initiated by me. If my W hadn't decided she didn't love me and things had remained like that between us, I think I may even have ended up leaving myself eventually. It would have taken me a lot longer than it took her though. I just didn't feel loved any more. I'm the kind of person who needs hugs and to hold hands to feel loved. My W used to be and it hurt me when she changed. That's why I started trying to improve our situation. Unfotunately though, I didn't get right to the root of the problem soon enough. I never realised how bad things had become.

Fast forward to now though and if my W asked if we could give it another shot, I would have to tread very cautiously. I'd need to be sure in my mind that my W was willing to give me those things that I need to feel loved and I would have to believe that she meant them. In that respect she would need to change. I would also be willing to change whatever I could to make her happier in the M. It sounds to me that you've already made a load of changes which have made you in to the wonderful person you are today. To be honest though, the one thing I think it's going to take for your H to wake up and see those changes is to get rid of the OW. When she's out of the picture I think he may start to notice those changes even more. I still believe by showing him how wonderful family life can be through your children, you have a good chance of outshining the OW.

I realise that this probably isn't too much of a help to you but I promise you I'll think some more about it and try to see if I can come up with something better.

Kev

[PositivelyMommy]

Hi Kev,

I take what you say very seriously. Thank you very much for your post. I am deeply appreciative that you have been honest and vulnerable enough to let me know about the intimate details of your M. I know it must hurt like heck to write it all down for the world to see. You are one brave soul.

Your words:

I'd need to be sure in my mind that my W was willing to give me those things that I need to feel loved and I would have to believe that she meant them. In that respect she would need to change. I would also be willing to change whatever I could to make her happier in the M.

They really really help. Why didn't I think of that? I don't know. Of course, H would feel this way. I think this way too but was unable to formulate it in my head. Now, I need to think about what those things would be to have him feel loved. I need to think of those things for me as well because instinctively I didn't feel loved either, and that was what brought on the moods, I think. Having a passive-agressive Nice Guy H means that I am in a guessing game most of the time because he has the covert contracts in place. Ughhh. So difficult. To tell you the truth we had ML regularly right up to the night before I found out about his A! And we talk to each other everynight, all the time. I felt vulnerable yes, because he fessed up to a ONS the year before but honestly I thought he truly loved me and thought we were still very much connected. That's why it was a bomb. I really had very little signs of major problems. We had renewed our vows in November even. What a shock.

Anyway, thanks for the insight. Keep them coming, I need all the help I can get. Thanks.

[PositivelyMommy]

Sandi, if you are out there, what finally made you turn your attention back to your H and return to your M again?

[Can it work]

Hey PM, I've really been thinking a lot about your sitch and whether I can give you any more help with trying to understand where your H is coming from. It could be the case that I'm quite like your H in many ways. If my M had gone on like it was, there's every chance that I may have found the affection I needed in the arms of another woman although it shames me to admit it. I was seeing no kind of affection at all from my W prior to the bomb. I'll give you an example of how bad it had gotten. I ML twice last year! Once on valentine's night and once on Wee Man's birthday. I put it down to the fact that we'd just never really found our feet again since she'd given birth. In that respect I guess I was a little naive. The reason she wouldn't ML to me is because she didn't think she loved me.

The main area our sitch's differ is that you are completely different from my W by the sounds of things. That could be because you are more mature and have already lived thorough many of the changes that my W has yet to experience. At the heart of it though, you believe that you weren't showing your H enough affection so he found it somewhere else. If I were you, I'd discount that idea completely. No matter how little affection you were showing him, it doesn't excuse what he did. He took the weak way out as far as I'm concerned. I've alrady admitted that I may have gotten to that stage myself eventually but not before I had tried to fix the problem in whatever way I could. My W never gave me that chance as it turned out but what she has given me is a chance to work harder to better myself.

I imagine that a few years ago, if you had left your H because you didn't feel the same love for him it would be him that was visiting this site trying to get help. I don't think it takes much for the shoe to be on the other foot. It could be something as simple as opportunity. It's human nature to want what we can't have and to feel destroyed by rejection.

I remember a time many years ago when I was young and stupid that I cheated on a girlfriend of mine. We then split up because of it (by my choice). We talked openly after we split up and she admitted to me that before I'd cheated on her she was on the verge of ending it anyway. Since I'd cheated on her she realised that she really did want to be with me and pursued me for a long time after. I'd moved on though. It was only a couple of years later that I realised what a fool I'd been and that my ex and I had been really good together. I would have been more than willing to get back together at that point but she'd already moved on. This is why I know that I have to learn patience in myself and resist moving on too quickly. It would be so easy for me now to call it a day and go find myself someone else. I'm certainly lonely enough to do it on occasion. I know that I still love my W more than anything though and would only ever regret a decision like that in the long run.

I think I've gotten carried away with writing down my own life story here PM so I'm sorry. Hopefully there will be something among all the nonsense that helps you in some way. For some reason my mind is just running away with ideas today and I seem to be writing them down. Didn't mean to hi-jack your thread. Keep smiling.

Kev

[hope3343]

Hi PM, just checking in. I always like what you have to say even in the face of adversity (Our H's), you always find a way to put thing in a positive way.

This is a trying time and we have to remain positive. take care.

[PositivelyMommy]

Thank you Kev and Hope for your words. Kev, it's really great that you are opening up and sharing your life with us. I am glad you feel it is safe to do so and it explains a lot about the kind of person you are today. You once made a mistake and you don't want to make the same mistake again, fair enough. I wonder why she thought she didn't love you anymore. Were there any signs? Any complaints or hints? To tell you the truth, my H and I were intimate again six weeks post partum with me breastfeeding and everything. Don't know if that is too soon or not as I don't ask many people questions like that. But I was just wondering...

I would agree with you in that I am very different from your W but I think I can still bring a woman's perspective into things. I know men and women think VERY differently. Do you really think that your W didn't think you were fun anymore and that is why you felt she didn't find you attractive? Is there more to it than that?

Anyway, work is going very well for me. I have to say that every other part of my life is going swimmingly well! How ironic! Because my H left me, I now have a new profession that let me work from home. I put in hours I want around the kids schedule and my exercise routine. I don't have a H so I can work at nights as well. What is even better is that I am getting more and more work opportunities so it's growing. I now have more closer relationships with my girlfriends and we talk about real things as opposed to just 'how are you, I am fine' - kind of thing, my relationship with my family has improved and I look better than I have in ten years! Really, I look better than when I was 30. Can't believe it myself but is taking care of myself and also dressing better everyday so I feel good and nice looking and sexy. I feel great when I walk out of the door in the morning. I feel everything is lining up really nicely. I just have a really screwed up M.

My C asked me today how I feel about things. I told him I feel that I am ready and willing to work on me and my part in the breakdown of M but the biggest deal-breaker is the A and OW. I can't work on this by myself. But if this doesn't work out, I need to move away. Can't stay in this city, not good for me or the kids. Can't have our world be about whether dad will show up or not or why he didn't come to such and such event and so on. It's way too stressful for us. If we moved away then we can just live our life with no expectations of his comings and goings and whether he will call or not. It took me a long time to be OK with this move thing. I tried to resist it but I know in the end, it's the best for us. I think I will give this to the end of the year. If he hasn't decided to work on M with me, then we will go. Not trying to manipulate or anything but can't stay here and be in limbo-land waiting for him to come out of fog. It would be almost two years from 2nd bomb and 3 years from first bomb.

I think he will help us move and let us go because it would be best for the kids but I think later on he will look back and regret this decision in his life. Maybe not now, maybe a few years later but when he is older and his A fades and he is out of MLC and he is looking for deeper meaning to his life, he will find himself with little or no connection with his kids, he will regret this. I feel sad for him but I cannot be responsible for his happiness. He is. This is his decision, not mine. I feel he is looking very hard for 'happiness'. I think he won't find it.

[Can it work]

PM, it sounds to me as though you are now having very healthy thoughts about your sitch. That's a really good thing and I'm really happy for you in that respect.

It's also great that you're feeling so much better about yourself with your new career and physical appearance. I know I'm losing weight and that I'm a lot fitter than I have been in a long time but I've still not reached the point that I can really look in the mirror and like what I see. Hopefully it will come over time though. I just have to lose that last bit of weight to reach my target and get a bit more toned.

I've wondered almost continuously about what it is that made my W fall out of love with me PM. Yes, there were signs. The intimacy was gone. We were communicating less and less. I guess I wasn't able to let myself believe that my M was going down the toilet. I convinced myself that it was just a minor hurdle after the birth of Wee Man. Don't all married couples go through low points? I always looked to the future though when Wee Man was a little older and we could go away as a family and enjoy our lives so much more. I looked at that as a fix. The only problem was that it never came in time to save my M. The first holiday abroad was supposed to be in July of this year. I'd convinced myself if we could hold on until then we'd manage to find our love again.

I don't know how else to describe my M. I always did what I could to give my W and Wee Man whatever I could. Not only material things. I also shaped my career around them to give them as much of my time as I could. In that I really succeeded. I work 9-5, Monday to Friday and get an hour off for lunch every day. I live close enough to my work that I can get home. On paper we were the perfect couple. Everyone thought we'd last forever. There was never any abuse, verbal or physical. It was rare for us even to argue.

All that is why I think the only reason must be that she didn't find me fun any more. I was dependable, loving, financially secure and generous. As you so rightly say men and women think very differently so I'll probably never understand her reasons.

Anyway, I'll go now. I've just had a wine supplier past for a tasting night so I'm feeling a little light headed. Take care. I'll hear from you soon.

Kev

[PositivelyMommy]

Girlfriends are the best. They keep my head up and keep me sane in times of chaos and madness. I bounce ideas off them and they are gentle in their reply and they are always on MY side.

Had coffee with some genuinely caring, older girlfriends today. They help me think through my situation and also to sympathize. I wish everyone on this board has friends like these. I feel very blessed. A few years back I was in dire need of some girlfriends because I had none and my prayers were answered in abundance. Now I have these wonderful friends to help me carry my burden and to think clearly again.

Those who are here, don't be afraid to reach out to your friends. You will find out real quick who have your best interest at heart and who doesn't. But for those who are there to support you, you have found a gem. Keep them close and treasure your those friendships.

[hope3343]

Hi PM, just saw you posted. Glad you are feeling stronger.
One day at a time. I struggle like you "should I stay or go". My issue is D15 wants to finish school here and I am not sure I can stay and watch this A continue with OW and who knows what H will do if D goes through. Not that strong.

Keep in touch. You are in my thoughts and prayers.