PM Thread #4

[PositivelyMommy]

Hi friends and new friends.

A quick recap. Jun 07 found out H had ONS that happened in Jan 07. He said he would take full responsibility but then refused to talk about it again. I tried to reach out to him but he was unreachable. Jul 07 H almost died from illness, I nursed him back to health. I told him I felt insecure, want to renew vows. We renew vows in Nov 07. Found out March 08 that he has had an affair with his direct report Jan 08 (two months after we renewed vows). Now figured out ONS was probably the same person and he had her in the wings continuing the A. Did not want to leave the comfort of the M until his R with her was secure. So when I found out in March 08, he said 'I love her' and he decided to leave our marital home. Pretext was to think things through, promised that he would keep away from her, lies, lies and more lies, even now.

We are both in IC with the same therapist but separately. IC is pro-M. No papers filed. No D talk...yet.

Emotions have calmed down a lot since then. I love the man I married but not the person who has done this to our families. Think he is in MLC amongst other things. H still in heat of A.

I am uncertain how I want to proceed. Don't know if I am wasting my time waiting for the man I love to see my good points again. Doing very well GAL, I am happy otherwise. No plans on moving onto another R.

IC believes most R that starts with an A ends badly. So he advises patience and GAL. I agree with him that his A will not be long term but don't know if that bodes well for my M as it is so badly damaged by his behavior and his continued betrayal and lying.

I want to save my M but not seeing any progress just kills my motivation.

[PositivelyMommy]

When he first moved out, we were still talking. He would still call me up once a week to ask how the kids were, tell me about his work and just chat a little bit. I acted 'as if' but a few times I got mad because his work would call and would put me in a tough spot to lie for him. After a couple of bad phone calls he withdrew even more. Now he doesn't even call once a week anymore and he doesn't talk about his life very much because he is trying to shut me out.

But made progress, last week he actually opened up a little bit after not doing so for a long time. Don't know if he is flip-flopping or was it my sexy dress? Don't know. If I don't know what I am doing right, how can I replicate it?

I feel that going dark has backfired. He gets really mad when I go out when he is with kids. He withdraws from me for a long time. But if I stay around then I am letting him eat cake but then he would relax a little by the end of his day and talk about himself just a little. So do I go out and leave him with the kids or do I stay and try to see if he reaches out to me?

[davidswife]

Hi PM,

I think I'd posted earlier this week and asked why you always stayed around when he comes to see the children. I would let him have them by himself. After all, if it does come to D, that's how it will be for him -- at least for the most part. How convenient for him that you look after the children all week, and then when he decides to grace you all w/is presence on the weekends -- you hang around.

I would go out and stay out and be vague about your plans. If he doesn't like it - so what? Hanging around him all day in the hopes that he'll talk about himself a little seems clingy. If you can, try this 180 and see.

You are doing great, and in the end, only you know what's right for you.

Stacy

p.s. Don't lie for him, to work, or ever.

[hope3343]

PM, not sure if aI asked this before, but does work know he is having an A with direct report? Isn't it against company policy?

I know if you think that if H keeps seeing you he will soften his heart -- he might but absence might make the heart become stronger. Also once he is with Ow more maybe he will not like what he has gotten.

It is discouraging.

[healthydad]

Hi PM,

Going dark and LRT are tricky things...but I think both of them should be about you first and foremost - not him. I went dark after my wife moved out (I prefer to call her B) and it's made things much worse - but, as I've come to see, this is the only way I could have gotten to where I need to be - where I live my life separate from her and seize my life as my own in a healthy way. My T recently said to me, "how can two people complete each other and still friends? That's like saying you're both inadequate." He didn't say that to me months ago when I first started seeing him - he seemed to have waited until I was ready to hear it...and I think sometimes that's what comes with having our own safe space away from our spouses.

In my case, B became increasingly abusive and threatening (to call police, etc) - and so going dark was also done in order to protect myself from her anger and threats. I don't know if going dark is what everyone needs, however - as sometimes LRT just means you turn your attention to your life in such a positive way that you finally rediscover yourself as you would be without your S. I think you have a great sense of your own happiness - but I do want to ask you something...forgive me if it's too forward...why do you want to be with your husband? Is there something he offers you that you can't do for yourself? Is it legitimate? Does fear stop you from feeling the deeper emotions under the fear? (fear did that to me - for MANY months - now I know that whenever I feel fear, there is something in me I have to address, no matter how painful or sad).

When I explored that question at some remove from B I found a completely different answer than I had expected...a life changing answer....I had to set aside what I had hoped for (family, mother with me and my son, preserved unit, the dreams that brought us to where we were before the bomb) and just take the time to think about why, of all people in this world, did I want to be with B? For some, asking that question leads to a real commitment to do what it takes to save the marriage - for others - it means accepting the end of the marriage...but for both I think the solution is the same - whatever it takes means you stop thinking about his anger and his issues and the reasons for why he left - and you start focusing instead on becoming the best person you could possibly be (which I know you know) - but even if you decide the marriage is over (as I did) you still have to do the same thing...be happy with yourself and love yourself in the healthiest of ways. If you love your H unconditionally, and want him back (without expectations and without wanting him to fulfill your needs) than you'll be able to do it...and I think it's vital to GAL/PMA and find yourself in the deepest of ways for that to work.

-Carlos.

[PositivelyMommy]

Stacy, thanks for the post. The reason that I hang around on weekends is that I want to make life as normal as possible for the kids. I don't want to make things worse for them. So I hang around and act 'as if' we are a happy family. The kids feel relaxed, H and I don't fight, we act civil and I try to show H that home is safe and that I am not about to make him eat dirt every time he comes near. So I have many reasons to stay around, for kids, for H to feel safe about coming home and for me to feel some sort of normalcy and peace. My IC and DB coach suggested that I take some time away when he is with kids and I have. It has backfired in that he gets so mad at me for leaving. Gives me dirty looks and snaps at me when I come home. Acting all high and might like he has to do EVERYTHING when I am the one with the kids all week. I don't want to live with that tension anymore so after about five/six tries, I haven't tried it again. But I know our C wants it in our agreement that he will have the kids to himself every second Sunday. So we will see how that works. then the other Sundays would be 'family days'.

Hope, when I threated my H with exposure he exploded. He threatened never to talk with me again and to make everything as ugly as possible. That is not what I want, even if we D, I want an amicable D because I value peace above all else. I don't want to turn into a bitter resentful person because of this. I want to be a better person, not one who wants revenge.
And I did try the absence thing. A couple of months after I found out about A, I left for two months to stay with my family to take a break from the conflict. I took the kids during summer. During that time, he went out with OW, and lived the bachelor life, he loved it. At the end of that time he told me that he was so happy living without me. I was crushed. So no in fact, for my H, the heart did not grow fonder. It had the opposite effect. I asked him if he wanted me to leave him for good and he said that he would support whatever decision I made. He would like me to take the kids far away so he could be absolved of all responsibility of his actions and can tell the world that I left HIM. So I did exactly opposite of what he wanted. I came home and stayed put. I did not vacate my position as wife. He moved out a second time and did not talk about R at all since then.

Carlos, thanks for your questions. I think the reason that I want my H has mainly to do with me, not with him particularly. I am very very old-fashioned. I believe in commitment and vows and love. I believe that unless there is serious abuse (which there isn't in our case) that there is no obstacle big enough to that two people can't overcome. That love often does flow and ebb. That relationships are not perfect ALL the time. That love is not about what my H is offering to me or fulfilling in me but what I can do for him and what we together can do for our family and our extended families. I don't look at M as a sum like an accountant. What is he doing for me? Am I getting my money's worth? I look at it from the angle of 'I have made a commitment for life, I want the best for all of our families. I would like to work on this together and please each other and everyone else.' More of a communal love than a one person filling the needs of another.

Call me silly but I was very much in love with my H and still am, just not this lying cheating man. When he called, I'd get excited to hear about his day. When he came home, I would want to be with him and just BE. I don't ask for very much, I am not a very demanding wife. I just like being with him and being his companion and that is what I miss most about him now. His companionship. I am not afraid of being alone. I have always done things by myself. Had friends that were mine and played sports by wihtout him, had my own hobbies. But I miss being with him. I liked him. He was my best friend, I liked to share with him. I don't know this depressed, angry man he has become and I don't know if it's just MLC but I miss the man that I knew.

I don't miss our negative interactions, they were few and far in between but it was more than he could take. H hated any sort of conflict or confrontation. I believe in talking things out so there were no misunderstandings. I think if we knew where we stood and neither of us meant any harm then we could get past so many issues. He just saw the conflicts as signs of unhappiness on my part and he felt helpless and inadequate to 'make me happy'. I just wanted him to listen and understand. Classic 'Men are from Mars...' stuff. I read that book but he never bothered so when I tried to explain he just brushed it off as 'pop psychology' and didn't bother. I just saw that as another attempt on my part to reach out to him and another rebuff from him and his lack of interest in improving our R. so the more I reached out, the more he withdrew and the more frustrated I got. We hardly had any arguments, maybe three or four times a year but he couldn't handle them. So that's it. Whew, he is gone.

[PositivelyMommy]

Hope, forgot to answer your other question about company policy. My H has a special function in his company, they will not fire him. He will also do anything to keep her job for her so that route is pretty much blocked. Plus, I am not totally comfortable with messing with another person's income. Just because she is low enough to butt in on my M, doesn't mean I have to stoop to her level. I am to be true to myself and not stoop to hers. (I don't mean that about you by the way, you are in a different sitch since there is excess alcohol involved AND you have to see her face and work there everyday, like I said, I think you are totally unbelievably strong.) But I don't have to see OW so I will just let her dig her own grave, so to speak. I think people who do bad things, karma will eventually settle the score. I don't need to do anything. I will just let my own conscience be clear.

[Can it work]

{{{{PM}}}}

What you said in your post in respose to Carlos' question has moved me nearly to tears. That's almost exactly why I still want to be with my W but I could never have worded it as well as you have. Here's me trying to be a writer too!! Lol. Thank you for those words.

Carlos, I can see your point too and respect you a lot for managing to find the strength to make the decisions you have regarding your sitch. It all just reminds me that although many have similar problems on these boards, no two situations are exactly the same. I can see many parts of mine split between many people's but I don't think I've come across anyone who is going through exactly the same as me. Some do come close though. This is what makes this site so invaluable. If you break each situation down in to small parts, there's always someone around who has been through those parts and come out the other side stronger for it. If you get advice on how to deal with even a small part of your sitch, eventually you will piece those together and have a great way of working on the whole. For example, PM, in describing why she still wants to be with her H, has unintentionally explained to me exactly why I still want to be with my W. Whereas, you Carlos, have taught me a lot about finding my inner strength to battle through this and to make me a better person regardless of the outcome.

Kev

[sandi2]

Hi PM, I was looking for you last night, so I finally found you this morning. However, it is time to get ready for work, so I will have to wait until later to talk. I haven't had a good long talk with you in a while, so I have been saving up spit...(lol).


Later,
Sandi2

[Can it work]

Hi PM

Just thought I'd drop in to thank you for posting on my thread today. How are you doing today yourself? I hope you're keeping your spirits up and keeping the smile on your face?

Kev