WAW - Very confused and devestated - pt 2

[spellfire]

Maximize your efforts doing what exactly?

Maximize GAL? Yes.
Maximize PMA? Yes.
Maximize letting go of need to know her temperature? Yes.
Maximize working on not being controlling? Yes.
Maximize being the best father you can be? Yes.

Maximize trying to convince her to stay? No.

[confusedinpa]

I know it's really really hard to not put her top of mind, but loosen up a bit and let her think things out on her own. Yes it will seem like you two are drifting apart, but she needs that for her own self-discovery. It's obvious she sees there are issues with herself so let her figure it out herself. How would you like it if you wanted to be left alone with your thoughts but kept having someone hanging around you asking if you were okay. It would get pretty irritating.

Stuck808,

What's driving me crazy is that I keep thinking that the longer it goes, the more she'll forget about when she had the feeling. Perhaps I'm fooling myself, it sounds like she already has erased all the good memories.

I know I need to give her space - which is why I pushed her to have a her day on Sat. I'm giving it again next Sat when I take my boys to the monster truck show.

I have actually given her space in the past as I used to travel 1 week every 2 months. Last nite she even brought up as she enjoyed that time as it was so stress-free and she felt she didn't have to follow my "rules"/controlling attitude - my last trip was in early December. I think that helped cement her decision that life is better without me. I think she was originally going to tell me just after Xmas but she had gotten sick.

I'm worried about giving her space as she has already emotionally moved on and I know once she physically moves on, she is such a strong willed determined woman that she will make it work and will never come back. That's what I'm afraid of, but I know the right answer is that I will need to let her go. I really feel like I don't have a good choice to make.

I do appreciate your insight and it helps give me resolve to continue.

Thanks

[confusedinpa]

Maximize your efforts doing what exactly?

Maximize GAL? Yes.
Maximize PMA? Yes.
Maximize letting go of need to know her temperature? Yes.
Maximize working on not being controlling? Yes.
Maximize being the best father you can be? Yes.

Maximize trying to convince her to stay? No.

I was going to say maximize my efforts in my 180 - showing her that I have changed by:

1. Showing her that I listen to her emotions, not just her words.

2. She is important to me and I'm not afraid to be open and honest to discuss things with her.

3. I value her opinion and thoughts.

4. I am not afraid of being vulnerable with her. Be accepting of comments as they are not attacks but opportunities for me to improve.

5. I am here to enjoy life and live in the moment, not just being there physically.

6. She had always thought I was too controlling/strict with the kids and her so I've loosened up and been much more tolerant of "childish" and playful behavior. I've also been less rigid of when things happen (i.e. Kids always got a bath at 7, I used to get upset if it happened later)

7. Remain strong - don't break down in a panic/anxiety in front of her when we're talking about the the divorce.

8. Focus on getting things done, not just talk about them, or expect that she will just take care of them.

These are things that I'm doing to convince her that I'm changed and it's real. In a sense so she has a reason to want to stay - perhaps that's bad. I'll have to think that through.

I do need to add:

Maximize letting go of need to know her temperature? Yes.

Not sure of this one though:
Maximize trying to convince her to stay? No.

I think it may be maximizing trying to convince her to stay with actions, not words.

[spellfire]

she felt she didn't have to follow my "rules"/controlling attitude

Sorry if this comes across as harsh, but I am only saying this because I care and I know you are suffering. I truly believe this is what you need to hear at this time.

This is a huge sticking point for you. Your threads are riddled with examples of your strong desire to control the situation. I know how hard it is to see yourself and change, and I know you are doing your best.

Take some quiet time alone for introspection. Think about what it would take for you to truly let go. Research resources that teach you how to let go of the false belief that if you can control the outcome of various things in your life, you will avoid pain. Make a list of all the ways you try to control things in your life, try to become aware of them on a day to day basis. Ask your W to help you make the list if you feel comfortable doing so.

Try letting go for a while to see how it feels. Stop trying to convince her to go to MC and ask her if that's what she wants to do. If she doesn't, go alone and work on yourself.

I know this is all very easy for me to say, but a very hard thing to actually live.

Above all, go easy on yourself. You did not consciously decide to be this way, and you are working very hard here on being a better man. Be proud of that.

SF

[spellfire]

Not sure of this one though:
Maximize trying to convince her to stay? No.

I think it may be maximizing trying to convince her to stay with actions, not words.

Okay that all sounds solid. Good man. On this one I meant words. ie. trying to verbally convince her not to go, pleading etc.

[MrBond]

SF has got it right.

It will seem unbearable for you to let go of control, but that's what we've all come to realize has to happen in all of our sitches.

Giving her space means more than just one day a week. It means letting her come to you rather than you being always in front of her.

Make her "environment" comfortable and safe for her to return. She'll start poking around soon enough.

Think of it like a stray cat. At first it'll be afraid of its new environment, but you leave out food, make it comfortable and don't grab or make any sudden moves, then it'll come closer. Keep doing this and it may decide to stay.

[AnotherNightmare]

What's driving me crazy is that I keep thinking that the longer it goes, the more she'll forget about when she had the feeling. Perhaps I'm fooling myself, it sounds like she already has erased all the good memories.

No, the more you pressure and pursue her, the more you confirm and justify for her the bad feelings she has right now. If you leave her alone, the bad feelings will subside and chances are the good memories will come back.

The S is not ideal, because more often than not it leads to D. But if you cannot stop pursuing her, if you cannot GAL with her around you, if you cannot develop a PMA living in the same house with her, it may be the best for you right now. You need to save yourself first, and maybe as a by-product you save your M as well.

You come across very anxious, and I am sure your W feels that, too. And it pushes her away. You will fix nothing fast. It is a marathon, not a sprint. You will have 2 years to fix yourself. The faster you get there, the more time it leaves for your W to recognize these changes and for both of you to get back together.

To be very blunt, I think your MC sessions together may be counterproductive, unless you have a really good counselor like MWD describes them. I did not believe it either at first, but I feel very lucky that my W backed out of our first session last minute and we both have been going to IC. In fact, we have not had a single MC session together, but I think we have come a long way since then. We are now ready to go to Retrouvaille together, and there might be a real chance of putting our M back together.

AN

[song]

I'm worried about giving her space as she has already emotionally moved on and I know once she physically moves on, she is such a strong willed determined woman that she will make it work and will never come back. That's what I'm afraid of, but I know the right answer is that I will need to let her go. I really feel like I don't have a good choice to make.

I'm right there with you, this is something that I feel about my sitch. My DB coach made a good analogy - try to remember when you were a kid if someone grabbed you to keep you from doing something, or stop you from leaving, what was your response. If you are like me, you fought to escape the grip and get away. However, if they let go, and asked you to do something, or not leave, now you had a choice, and maybe you decided differently.

This hit home with me, because I have been afraid to let go, and doing so has been the greatest challenge I have ever faced.

You can do it. You must do it. It's not easy, it's almost unbearable at times, but as you said yourself

I know the right answer is that I will need to let her go

Also remember that feelings change. Her feelings for you already changed once, they can change again.

But not while you are clutching onto her like a drowning man.

Sometimes people drown because someone trying to save them gets dragged down, and they have to let go to save themselves. (not sure I worded that right, but I hope you get the analogy)

[confusedinpa]

Sorry if this comes across as harsh, but I am only saying this because I care and I know you are suffering. I truly believe this is what you need to hear at this time.

This is a huge sticking point for you. Your threads are riddled with examples of your strong desire to control the situation. I know how hard it is to see yourself and change, and I know you are doing your best.

Spellfire,

Perhaps you should be a therapist/counselor as that is exactly what my therapist (who is also our counselor) is saying.

She is constantly beating me up on working on myself and helping me understand what made me "behave" the way I did - it is really helping my 180.

Unfortunately, she takes the same approach with counseling my wife and I - which is one of the things I'm going to talk to her about when I see her this afternoon (the counselor). I'm not sure if that approach is helping. I'm guessing the "solutions oriented" counseling approach by Michelle will work best if my wife wants to participate in the the solution towards the same goal. I'll post when I understand her "strategy/approach".

Last nite, when we watched Lost together, we sat on separate couches. It was very weird - we did talk and she smiled a few times - but I really wanted to sit next to her. She didn't offer nor did I ask. I may decide to just sit next to her tonite (without asking) but no touching (i.e. hand holding, rubbing leg, hugs or kisses). My rational is in the past that was how we watched our shows together and in counseling Monday she had brought up an issue that if she sees me "slip up"/revert back to the old ways, she would "flip out". She was unusually distant this morning.

Any thoughts?

[confusedinpa]

Make her "environment" comfortable and safe for her to return. She'll start poking around soon enough.

Think of it like a stray cat. At first it'll be afraid of its new environment, but you leave out food, make it comfortable and don't grab or make any sudden moves, then it'll come closer. Keep doing this and it may decide to stay.

I really like the stray cat strategy. I guess it's a tough balance to go between giving her space and making sure I'm still filling her love buckets (touch, quality time and verbal are her top, service and gifts are very low). The touch part is hardest for me. In the past she wanted me to hug/touch and kiss her and I didn't. Now that's all I want to do and she doesn't. Its so painful

I just want to keep my family together. Is that too much to ask from her?