WOW... ok.. anyone readong my thread? DO NOT BELIEVE WHAT YOU SEE. Appearances are deceptive... we had the big convo and its all as people think, hes in a mess, he has NFC and doesnt know what he is doing and he misses me.
Naej.. yes, I would definetly have this man as my friend, or a husband, if he wasnt so damaged (so its not possible). He was lovely, funny, vert very sweet and I had the best night out.
Kalni...I DID show him what he was missing ! And for the first time in ayear, I CAUGHT HIM CHECKING ME OUT! And not once, but a few times, his eyes strayed and he looked at my top and went to say something (a compliment) and then stopped himself. (i did look good tonight though!) And I was very funny, but he was funnier. We laughed/talked all night, without a breath of a gap.
Everyone else, so much has happened, I cant remember it all and it was VERY emotional. Ok, I'll try, might be a long one. God I am tired.
So, met him, was very early and got settled. He turned up lookign anxious and I soon twigged he is NOT in a good way. He hugged me, which I was relieved at and then I relaxed and for the rest of the night it felt normal,. like us again, no awkwardness at all. Early on, I was brave, no beating around the bush.. he straight off asked me if I was ok, I said, sort of, not really, hadnt been ...I asked him, he said the same, he wasnt ok, okish, but up and down.. i said I was up and down too and he apologised profusely.
I admitteed that I was nervous to see him and that it felt odd as we hadnt seen each other since August and that had been hard for me. He said he was nervous too and very nervous, that he had really wanted to see me and was angsty with his friends, hurring their bowling and they were all looking at him wierd, but he was keen to see me and didnt want to be late. So that went well and then I relaxed.
We then chatted and LAUGHED all night. Later, he was supposed to get the train home, and as he was being so open with me, I figured the best thing was to get him drunk and then he would open up, so he did and I drove him home later.
I told him at some point about my anemia and hair falling out from taht and being stressed and he was very concenrend, but I said it was ok now.
We got on very well, there was total eye contact, and we were leaning right in to one another and close and he seemed excited to be with me, very animated, very funny and almost trying to impress me. At one point, he was telling such a funny story about having Monster Munch crisps on his fingers, taht I was laughing so much I started crying!!! He was upset and I kept lauhgning and crying and said "I miss you. I miss your humour. Noone makes me laugh like you do" and then wiped the tears and we kept chatting. He was very srry for upsetting me - this was a theme of the evening and I did my best to say, its ok.
His friend joined us (yay!) at 10.30 and that was relaxed. So at theis point, I didnt think he is still with her (he is). He told me sooo much about being out with this and that person and that he goes to bed at 10 everty night lately as he is so tired and that he got a TV for his bedroom, which is bad, as he stopped reading books and now watches Polic, Camera, Action! and lots of other bits and bobs, which made me think he isnt with her anymore. This gave me confidence and I was bright and vivaciius and relaxed and funny.
... so, I drove them both back to J's flat, I let J out of the backseat and my ex made no move to get out.. so I knew he wanted to talk (he was drunk, which was the only way he was likely to). So then.. now I cant remember much as it was so full on and emotional, all out, cards on table, nearly an hour.. we both cried throughout hte whole of it. In terms of DBing it was a total disaster, but then I thnk Dbing can be damaging beyond a certain pooint.
Um.. he is still with her.. I bought it up I think ..he said he didnt want to upset me, he said he was a wimp, a coward for not talkijg to me, he wasnt angry at that girl who did, he was angry at himself for not being able to.. he said, he couldnt upset me. He only referred to Helen as in terms of "Well, you know stuff has happened... "
He said he didnt go looking for it, it just happened.. it begain in August at a work do (I wanted to ask more questions here but I was too upset). i said, but you told me the previous summer you werent interested in her and I believed you. He said emphatically, he wasnt interested in her then.. and that he hadnt thught I did believe him.. I said, no, I did.. which is why it was such a shock when you got together with her.
He said, it wasnt planned, or expected, it just happened. at one point, he worryingly said, and now I am in too deep and I dont know how to reverse it, or something like that, and I said, in too deep, what do you mean, for you, or for me, or for her, or for all three of us? And he said, yes, for all three of us.. and then I looked mortified (as perhaps he meant they have feelings for each other?) and he got very stressed and cried alot and tore at his hair and said "I shouldnt have said that!!" and he was so sorry and repeatedly said he was a worthless c*nt (!) and he didnt mean it and it wasnt fair or the right thing to say and that he was sick of upsetting people.. I said, you told me all of this in July, who were you upsetting then and now? he said his Mum then (which is what he said in July) and now me.
He kept saying how nice it was too see me, really emphatic, how he really had wanted to see me.. and its been really nice and every time he said it, he would start crying. He said he had really enjoyed it and he wanted to see me the past 3 months but didnt think he should, because he had upset me because "stuff has happened". He wants to be in touch with me.
I asked him if it was easier to not see me/contact me, or harder and he said it was hard to, that he had wanted to. I thkn I said I missed his company and he said he missed mine. Then I said at least we agreed and we had another big hug.. mainly, I kept taking his hand and once or twice, we both locked both hands with each other, sort of upright, if you see what I mean and he cried the whole time and we hugged alot, and he stared at me alot with real emotion and torment, but that was all.
(Sorry, this is for my sake, to remember when I wake up) so... Early on, he bought up something I was going to ask.. he offered me a lift back home when he drives home Friday to go on holiday! He also told me what trains to get back, to save money. So I accepted... so thats 4 huors in the car with him. He said he will phone me to sort out the lift, but when I pressed him on whether I could speakl to him/see him this weekend, he said he was seeing his friend J.
In the car, he told me he is moving into J's house in January, in a spare room, to save money. I was upset to hear this, but realistocally, its better than moving in with her, so I guess thats a relief. Its a little bit further away from here.
We talked about the morgages and he was very relieved to hear we dont have to pay much and again, he has no interest in talking about all this, so I will forget that now!
So I said but we had been spending alot of time together, alot and it had been increasing, and he calmlu said, I know, we were and he agreed that he had enjoyed spending time with me...and I asked him, so I was very confused, contact was increasing and then suddenly it stopeed in August.. and he said thats when "stuff happened" with her and when I asked him how he could stop contact overnight like that and go from daily, to none for 2 months, he started crying again and couldnt speak and said some words along the lines of guilt and upsetting me I think.
I said, how come he could just switch direction like that, was it somethig I did? And he repeatedly said I hadnt done anything wrong, not at all, it was nothing to do with me, please DONT apologise, you have nothing to apologise for, yuo are not responsible, stuff happened and I dont know what I am doing now, or why I am doing it.. I am, I am just 'being'.. I cant explain and I have no idea (NFC!). I havent made any concious decisions and cant, stuff just happened and still happens to me. I said, but seeing me alot, then doing that and stopping contact WAS a decision of sorts.. but he said it wasnt concious at all and now he didnt know what he wanted.
Oh yes.. I remember he said, he thought he did, he said, I thought this is ok, this is what I want, I know what I am doing, but he realised he didnt and has no idea. He cried alot.
He talked about his depression. He's in a very bad way. He said, I'm pointless, I'm nothing, forget me (this was very worrying) forget about me, I'm dead. I do stuff, but whats the point? I'm a muppet, all I do is go down the pub, drink pints and make people laugh, I have that real, whats the point of it all? I watch myself doing stuff and I think, why bother? Whats the point?
He is still getting C. He said he is worried.. he came off the ADs and nosedived, really badly. He said he has been this way his whole life, since he was about 1 he thinks.
I said alot of stuff about being worried about him and there for him.. but I also pushed the point.. I dont understand how you started a R with her if you are as bad as you say you are and what does she think about it all? He said straight off.. OH, I put on the full front to her! I said "REALLY!?" he said, oh yes, of course, she doesnt see this, well, unless I am drunk, or tired and then I cant keep the mask up and then she sees this. I said, but hows that going then?? He said, well, not well at all.
I couldnt believe he actually admitted all this to me. Unbelieveable. I cried alot too and several times told him I was scared, that he wouldnt want to see me now after this and he didnt understand that and kept saying it was fine. I told him I hadnt been honest all year and how I regretted that and it was still hard for me and I apologised for the 2 "dbing" emails I sent him and he admitted it was a bit odd, but it was ok, I explained I was trying to be dignified/respectful, but of course it was a shock as I didnt know she was around, he said again "stuff just happened". I was very anxious about the whole thing, but it was like a runaway train...
He repeated it was so good to see me and cried some more then left and said he'd call me (!!!)
So.. cant remember how, but I said, so.. are you still in a relationship with her then? He said..um.. I guess.. I said, you are? He said.. well...yes... and looked very guilty. So that was a blow. He is still with her. That was hard. Not surprising though.
Its got a bit confused, but he kept repeating he HAD wanted to see me.. and then crying.. oh and I asked him if it was ok for him to see me, or difficult now.. and he shrugged and looked confused by the question and said he hadnt really talked to her at all about me (!). Doesnt sound like they have any kind of real, honest, loving R. Sounds like he is desperate and she made a play for him and he just went for it. In fact, he said as much, he said, its like it just happened to him, really cr*p, but not concious at all, no effort on his part to make it happen. It was at a work do.
I got very upset at this point.. I thought.. 10 years of my life and you're saying "It just happened at a work do" !?? Oh well.
Hey Michelle. I am very very worried about him. He sounded and looks suicidal again to be honest. I dont think he is in love with her, but he is clearly not wanting to end it yet. He did say, he thought he knew what he wanted and he was doing the right thing, but then he wasnt sure now and didnt know and then said it was so good to see me and he really had enjoyed it alot and it had been so nice.. and started crying again.
I want him to end it with her. Move to his friend J's. Go for C more intensively. Talk to me more, be my friend and hopefully we would reunite by, say next summer.. once he is 'better'.
Hmm.. there goes a pig past the window.
I have to tell you all, I had a LOVELY evening, he was so kind and sweet and charming.. and SO funny. He's the funniest man I have ever known. I made him laugh too. I said to him in teh car, crying, when he said he was worthless...but you are wonderful and that made him say NO I'M NOT and start crying again.
I have no idea if tonight was good or bad, or what kind of tailspin I will end up in now, but it had to be done hey !!! I'm proud of me. Ok, KNACKERED. Thoughts anyone!!??
..oh and I stressed that I wasnt angry at him, that I was forgiving, that I would have understood, that I knew he has been through a big depression and is still not ok.. but when he twice said about not knowing how to fix it, I stopped short of saying, we can fix it! Or.. dump her, we can sort this out! I just couldnt say any of that, so sat quiet. But stressed I was there for him and eventhough he felt he "shouldnt" speak to me, I told him he could talk to me anytime, I was always here for him.
I am worried about what he said about nosediving badly and he said he had a real "whats the point of it all?" thing. He also lingered when he left, looking back longingly at me, until I drove off. That was a new one!
..cant sleep, god this is so much to take in. I remember I said something like, then either she is very special or I am not so special or soemthing and he didnt answer, but something else about him not being interested in her last summer (he was very keen to stress he wasnt then) but I said, I guess things changed then this summer and then you were more interested.. and he said, well, yes..so I got upset then and he did too, and I was worried for quizzing him and he actually said that he was happy to talk about it and answer my questions but he was just worried that it was upsetting for me. So I didnt push it, as it was !
Judging by the guilty frown that crossed his face when I asked him about Dylan Moran.. I thikn he took her!!
He also said he was crazy.. and then cried.. he wasnt joking, he's ok one minute, then his head goes mad, sparking, crazy. He said this back in July, so he is no better, he looked worse actually, he looked in bad shape. WTF must she be seeing in him??? He says he puts on a full front to her.. what, are her 5 senses in a lead box!?? You can see he is distressd. I dont get it.
Ali, first of all, stop with the assumptions. He may have taken about 100 other people. It does no good to assume. Does it change anything if he did? If not, let it go.
((((((Ali)))))))
Take some tea with valerian root in it or something sweetie and get some sleep.
Michelle - Proud DR Rockette S: 28JUL07, D'd: 29OCT09 http://tinyurl.com/27j9qo2
WHOA!!!!!! WHOA!!!!!!! WHOA!!!!!! What a mess he is. It sounds like you had a good convo with him. I'm glad for that. Too bad it had to happen after a lot of drinking, that doesn't make for very coherent conversation.
Did you get anything that you really wanted out of this conversation Ali?
T19 M15 S19 XH47 M43 bomb12/4/07 PA5/07 S12/26/07 D final 11/17/08 Back together with no defined R 05/2010 confused....to say the least!!!
I think you did fine, Ali! You found things you wanted to know. You enjoyed time with him. DBing has lots of different forms. It isn't the same thing all the time. This was certainly a 180!
OK, here we go, I think you know all this, but.... His relationship with Helen isn't anything. He is depressed, self esteem in the dumpster. She just took advantage of the situation, and he went with it. Each time he drops the mask, I expect it gets closer to ending.
He is still really depressed! I always expected this, now you know. The dive when he went off the ADs really supports that. You are right, he needs a lot of professional help with that, probably more work to get the right drugs going, and a lot of counseling!
I don't know if he can ever come back to you. He is carrying a lot of guilt, you might forgive him, but I don't know that he can forgive himself. In any case, it won't be until he gets a lot better depression-wise. Now that you have re-established contact, you may be able to be his friend again. For now, that's that best you can hope for, and probably the best for him. He doesn't need a romantic relationship with anyone. Friends, on the other hand, are probably something he could really use.
