I think it's got to be good. What you and Clark have is different then what either had in your marriages, but I think it's just as good. It's a different love but a love just the same.
It's like the love you have for your children compared to the love you have for your partner. It's still love.....just a different kind.
I think that's what this is going to teach us, that we can love in many ways, not just one. Maybe we have such a hard time because we do want to find that same love we once had for our Ex's. Maybe that's a problem, maybe we should except the new love for what it is and try not to compare what once was.
Do you know what I mean? Maybe we put to much pressure on ourselves to regain that so called Dieing Love and learn to enjoy a new love.
Friend, You are on to something! Several years ago (prior to the bomb, MLC and divorce) Clark had a friend from work who lost his wife to cancer and a few years later met someone and re-married. He asked him what that was like, since he knew how much this man had loved his first wife and how devastated he was when she died.
The man thought for a moment and told him just what you said Friend... different. Not better, not worse just different and added how lucky he was to have found love twice in a lifetime. I think there is some truth to that.
I think we make a mistake if we try to re-create with someone new what we had in the past with the ex. It won't work because all of the dynamics are different, plus we all have been changed by the divorce experience.
With my divorce, I lost my innocense and in a very real way, there is a sadness that I will always carry in my heart. We have been profoundly affected in ways that are unknown to those that are fortunate enough to never have this experience. How can our subsequent relationships not be affected by such a life-altering event? We can never look at the world the same after we've hurt as we have.
I do believe you are right when you say we need to enjoy our new love. We need to appreciate the gifts this person gives us. They are not the same, but still good.
MaryC, you said Clark is kind. That's the one thing I'm looking for in my next R, kindness. The other thing you said is you wanted to never be afraid again. This is my other big demon, I'm so afraid, mostly of my H. I just can't seem to get over that. When he calls, I run. When he comes here, I run. I cannot talk to him or see him, still. He brings out the worst fear and panic I've ever felt in my entire life. This is what I need to deal with and conquer for now. Trust is an issue I'm not even close to thinking about right now. I have my work cut out for me, obviously.
Friend, thank you, you always make me feel better and give me hope. No, I don't think that realistically, I'll ever be completely healed. I would like to love again, and hopefully, it will make the memory of all this fade a little. I'm just worried that it's going to take me a very long time. Maybe as you say, when I least expect it, things will take a turn for the better.
CC Why are you so afraid of your husband? What can he do to you that he hasn't already?
My biggest fear was that my ex would leave me and he would be right all the things he said about me. I believed all the nonsense he fed to me, about my being so impossible, no man would ever put up with me, my kids would see how awful a mother I was and would resent me and I would be alone and miserable for the rest of my life. Know what? He was full of it.
CC you don't need to be afraid. Examine what is that fear and panic that he brings out in you is all about. You have no idea how liberating it is to toss out all those scripts. Find that friend inside of you. There is no perfect being on this planet. You have good and bad like everybody else. You are who you are. If there is something you don't like about yourself, you have the power to change it if you so choose. If you don't want to, you don't have to. Love that person and be yourself. Have confidence that you are a worthwhile person, find your dream and pursue it. Live again.
I do think that love finds us as we live life. We have to do our part. We have to stop being afraid, we have to conquer our fears, we have to live again, and that involves some risk. We have to push ourselves to do some things that may be good for us, but a little uncomfortable at first. Trust is not something that just happens, it is something that grows little by little.
MaryC, having any sort of contact with my H just brings up the rejection over and over again. When I'm away from him I can live my life and feel Ok. When I have contact, I have to deal someone who doesn't think I'm good enough. I know I shouldn't buy into that, and I should toss his script aside, and I do try. It's just taking me forever.
Mary, reading what you've said really helps me. I still have loving feelings for my X (embarrassed to admit it) and I wonder if they will ever go away. But then he admits he still "cares" for me and will always do so, and that hasn't stopped him from being in a very important relationship. I guess the key is openness and honesty. If I could be honest and open with a new person, we could build something. But I'll never be able to pretend it is as simple and innocent as it once was.
CC, I understand your fear. I felt it (still feel it too) but maybe to a lesser extent. I think your X is "nice", like mine, and maybe that makes it much harder. Here's what I've come to understand:
Your X hurt you more than anyone else has ever hurt you in life. All your trusting feelings were violated. You had a basic sense of safety with X that turned out to be based on lies and deceit.
In reaction you built up a wall to keep him out. But he comes around and acts like a friend, tempting you to let down the wall. The scared part of you tells you not to, the part that still loves him wants to, so you flee in confusion and panic and fear.
Now imagine that your X was instead the type who was angry and hostile. You would still have all the hurt feelings but you would know that he would maintain a safe distance and that your wall would not be threatened. So you would not have to flee.
I still cannot really look X in the eye when I talk to him (a sign of my anger and hurt). I still try to control the conversation (not let him talk too much, don't want to appear to be the receptive listener). But I don't have to flee. And I notice my comfort level growing since I have found the ability to state my boundaries. It has taken me a long, long time to even figure out what my boundaries are!!! But when I do manage to figure them out, AND STATE THEM, then I feel my fear around X subside.
For example, I recently told STBX that I didn't want OW at kids' games and functions. I acknowledged that I had no control over whether she came or not, but I stated that if she came, she would be infringing on MY social circle and that was something I would not like. I also told STBX that if they are together at an event, to please let me control the interaction -- X is the type who would come up with her and act all friendly and like we were one big happy family. I don't want OW in my family.
That was freeing to me, because now if she DOES come to a kid's function, I don't have to pretend I like it or that I want to talk to them. I can trust that they will keep a safe distance. THEREFORE I DON'T HAVE TO FLEE!
Does that make sense?
In other words, I think the problem is a boundary problem. We are pleasers, we always want to fix the problem, make everyone comfortable. Until we feel deep in our souls that it's OK NOT to make everyone feel good, we will be trying to make interactions with the X comfortable, thereby increasing our hurt! We are our own worst enemies! When we put the walls securely in place, then we don't have to defend through flight.
The best way I found to state my boundaries to STBX was through email. I have more courage in print. It was hard for him to hear my boundaries. I have had to remind him several times that he is not welcome in my house, etc. But he's finally getting that we will not be friends.
Does this help any? The next time your X does something that makes you want to flee, could you analyze it and come up with some boundary that you could state that would make you feel safer?
"Your X hurt you more than anyone else has ever hurt you in life. All your trusting feelings were violated. You had a basic sense of safety with X that turned out to be based on lies and deceit.
In reaction you built up a wall to keep him out. But he comes around and acts like a friend, tempting you to let down the wall. The scared part of you tells you not to, the part that still loves him wants to, so you flee in confusion and panic and fear."
Carlotta, thanks for your help. I read your post very carefully to see what I can learn from you. Ok, for a start, H comes in the house when he comes for S on the weekends. I was doing this for S, so he can show his dad his "stuff", but it makes me flee the house. Do you say your H doesn't come in? The other thing is, I don't know for sure if H has an OW or not, and I don't want to know. In a way, I'm just closing my eyes and ears because "ignorance is bliss". I don't want to see him because he'll act all happy and comfortable with me, which just hurts because the reason he can do this is because I mean nothing to him. Does that make sense? Since he's the one who filed for D, I feel like the rejected one and he's the one who had the luxury of having a choice. It feels really bad when you don't have choices, it makes you feel so unimportant and irrelevant. But that's nothing new to any of us who have been left behind, is it. To me it looks like the only way I'll ever be able to look him in the eye is when I have no feelings for him. This whole thing has tilted power to a point where it's so unbalanced in his favor. How I wish things were more evenhanded, I'm tired of it all going his way and him feeling like the strong one for so long. Please pass along any suggestions you have for me, I need them.
You said: "It feels really bad when you don't have choices, it makes you feel so unimportant and irrelevant. " and "This whole thing has tilted power to a point where it's so unbalanced in his favor. How I wish things were more evenhanded, I'm tired of it all going his way"
CC, you DO have choices.
The power is only unbalanced because you let it be.
If you're tired of doing everything his way, tell him that from now on you'll be doing it your way in your house.
Yes, it certainly is FINE for you to deny X access to your house. I too felt I had to let him have free access for the sake of the kids. Once I found out about most recent OW, I felt such anger that I put an end to the open door policy. I asked him by firm email to ring the bell any time he wanted to enter. Sometimes he slips and I have to remind him again -- like the time I came home to find him sitting on my couch watching videos with one of the kids.
Think about this CC: HE can reject you to the point of filing for divorce, but having done that, you don't even feel like you have the right to ask him to pick up S at the door? Why do you give him all the rights and yourself none?
Because you have the idea in your head that your job is to fix things. Well, your X broke it and you cannot fix it.
I know that my X's relationship with our kids has suffered as a result of my closed door policy. But there would not have been such a policy if X had chosen to stay with his family. My relationship with my kids is closer than ever, because I chose to stay. He could have chosen to do the same, but he did not. His relationship with your S is his problem. If S wants to show him his new toys, let S bring them to Dad's house. Let Dad take responsibility for figuring out ways to improve his relationship with S that do not involve sacrifice on YOUR part.
It was a hard lesson for me to learn that I don't always have to be nice, turn the other cheek, smooth things over. But learning that lesson has freed me from much pain.
Think about it -- your X decided he didn't love you anymore and was certain enough about it to move out. (And you can bet there is an OW, but that's another conversation.) He was the one who decided to leave his kid. (As my daughter says, Mom, he didn't leave just you, he left us too.)
There are consequences to his decision. They are not all pleasant. We all wish we could make hard decisions without suffering from hard consequences. But that is not reality. Life doesn't work that way. But the fact that life doesn't work that way is not your fault and is not something you should try to fix. It's a law of the univers and out of your control.
Put your energy into controlling what you can, CC: your house. Make one small step today to set a boundary on your territory. You can do it.
Carlotta, you are right. I'm thinking right now about how I can phrase it in an email, and what to tell S about why I no longer want his dad to come in. So your H rings the door and then waits outside, or does he come in? Yes, I need to set some boundaries to be sure. And yes, I think it would make me feel better. I've been way too afraid of making things worse, but how much worse can it get, and he's the one who did this, right? Why do I feel that I have to accomodate HIM? Yikes, I have a lot of thinking to do. Your situation is so similar to mine, and your H sounds so much like mine, so please keep the advice coming as I know it can apply to me. How is your R with your H now that you set some boundaries with him? Has he become more hostile, and also, how do you communicate with him, emails? I do need to adopt the attitude that he broke it, he will have to be the one to make it better, not me. Trouble with my H is, when he gets angry, or feels "challenged", he gets nastier and meaner, so I'm quite fearful of going up against him. I need to get a whole lot stronger.
