one unfaithful's perspective

[saffie]

Have you thought about going to Retrouvaille? I hear it's very good at teaching couple's to communicate better - which is useful even if you don't stay together.

Just an idea. There are some people on these boards who have had a very positive experience there and I haven't seen one BAD report, even if the M didn't ultimately succeed.

[NoCodeBlues]

UP,

I suppose you have casually dismissed the certain possibility of your endorphin-based addiction to the OP as the reason you feel the way you do? Please, don't kid a kidder here -- we've all felt that heady "in-love" euphoria and we all know how intoxicating it is. We well remember how this "being in love" clouds your view of the object of that affection, even when we deny it. This is called "limmerance" and it always fades away at some point in the R, usually between six months and two years.

When, not if, that euphoria fades will the real test of your "love" begin and whether you still find that OP to be "perfect". Until then, it is grossly unfair to judge your S or your R with them in that light. Observe my sig below -- I strongly believe that real and lasting love is a decision.

Oh yeah, and S above all wants honesty and sincerity. At present, she can't get this, and also get the above affection. Just ain't in me.

How old are you? I have to ask. If this is truly how you feel -- and not some shallow rationalization to continue with your own selfishness -- then not only should you no longer be in a M or R with your current W, but you shouldn't have any R with your AP either. In fact, I don't think you should have a R with your children either. JMNSHO.

Sorry to be blunt, UP, but if you don't understand the need for honesty and sincerity in a M, then maybe you need a time-out from any and all relationships.

[Sara]

Saffie is right. You could learn a lot about commitment at Retrouvaille, see http://www.helpourmarriage.org. Remorse? Well, they can't teach you that. But they can definitely show you what it looks like. They don't write books. They teach by example. If you go you will benefit. One caveat, they ask you to come in with an open mind and a willing heart. If you can't do that, then there are other couples who could benefit more from a place in the room.

[saffie]

Nocodes,

I understand completely where you are coming from, but don't you think this guy has come to the boards to be honest here and explore whether or not he should be recommitting to his M and his family.

To say he can't be loving etc and be honest with his wife I can understand at the moment. He can't do that because he doesn't know what he wants it seems.

Up, do you think your W would want to remain in a loveless M? She is asking for affection etc... I don't think she would be asking for that if she just wanted to keep the family together for religious reasons. I honestly think you are selling your W short here. You need to give this time and thought and see if these feelings can grow back.

Nocodes is absolutely right that it is hard to recapture the feelings for your W whilst still involved or attached to OP; even if they are on the back burner rather than full on with you.

It sounds as though you think for your childrens' sakes you should give your M a fair shot so even if you walk away at the end of the day, you will know you did all you could. To do that you will have to be honest and sincere and all I think you can do is tell your W you are working on things and you HOPE those feelings of love etc will reappear. Retro is meant to be very good at rekindling those feelings if they are there. Why not give it a go - what have you got to lose?

[NoCodeBlues]

UP,

Saffie is 100% right -- I over-reacted in my response. I thought better of it after I posted it, realizing that it does not convey the point I need to make well. I realize that you would not be here in these forums asking these questions unless you were open-minded enough to really consider salvaging your M. At the same time, I don't believe you really want to make it your policy to deny someone your honesty and to betray their trust, except merely as a point of rhetorical conjecture.

Thanks, Saffie, for getting me to correct my heavy-handed response. I guess I am still quite a bit sensitive to the mere suggestion of the dismissal of trust and honesty by a spouse.

[GoingForward]

UP,

If you're only in the M for the sake of your children, don't succumb to a life of misery. If the kids are the only reason you're staying, then begin connecting with your W through family activities. Look at it this way - your children will benefit greatly from parents who show them how to be a loving couple.

And why not start with the simple things your W is asking for? The things that don't involve physical affection, like simple conversation - current events, your day at work, her day at work (or home), etc. Why not ask her about her aspirations and encourage her to go after them? You said yourself that she has been a very supportive W to you. Why not return the caring behavior(s)?

Thank her for the little things. Taking out the trash, doing the laundry, preparing dinner, whatever she does for you. If you can act appreciative even before you feel it, there's a good chance that loving feelings will follow. Act as if your R is as caring as you'd like it to be. You may find that these small attitude adjustments could lead to more positive and permanent pattern of interactions with your W.

Was there ever a time when things were good? What was happening during those times? Please don't come back and say there weren't any at all. There had to be. You just have to break down that wall to see those moments.

Oh yeah, and above all else, your W DOES deserve honesty. If the shoe were on the other foot, you'd feel the same way.

[advice_for_UP]

nocodes- you are right about needing to take a break from any and all relationships - that's actually what I'm doing right now to reassess. but i think you may have misunderstood what i was saying about honesty. what i was saying was this - W reasonably wants honesty, and she reasonably wants me to express my love for her in an affectionate manner. sadly, i do not feel this love for her - while there have been good times, I cannot rekindle the flame (and sincerely doubt it was ever a flame, as opposed to a detente in which we managed to get along). So where does that leave me when I receive the question from W: "Do you love me? How do you feel about me?" I can sputter on about respect and appreciation for parenting and building a warm home, but I can't talk about HER directly. And the more I dance, and avoid those words we both know she wants to hear, the more it hurrts her. So invariably I am beating her with the Truth.

Plenty of friends and family have suggested that I try a little "diplomacy" - translated as lying. But this is what i feel I've been doing all along - 12+ yrs. I am unwilling to continue living like that. On the bright side, the ominous warning I hear from others - "your marriage will never be the same, no matter what, after the affair"- is no threat to me - I never want that marriage back anyway. Clearly if I am to continue, it will have to be in a far different light and way than I have lived thus far.

To that end, thanks for the heads up saffie on Retrouvaille, I will look into that.

[sgctxok]

Puppy---
no post was deleted by us.
sg

[Michael Mc C]

UP - are there any books that you might consider recommending to your wife? You seem to have read a few of them on the subject and if she hasn't taken action to try to understand what has happened, and what is happening, she may want to start now. If nothing else than for her sake and for the kids.

[saffie]

Up

W reasonably wants honesty, and she reasonably wants me to express my love for her in an affectionate manner. sadly, i do not feel this love for her - while there have been good times, I cannot rekindle the flame (and sincerely doubt it was ever a flame, as opposed to a detente in which we managed to get along).

Please tell me that you ARE aware that these feelings are the usual ones when someone has been involved with an OP. That's what the endorphins generated by the A make you feel - they also make your brain rewrite history in order for you to be able to justify your actions - after all no-one wants to feel the bad guy/gal.

I am not 'having a go' here, Up, I am just stating the biological facts. My H thought he was in love with OP but only a few months after recommitting he told me, (without any prompting),that he hadn't really loved OW. Now if you asked him that at the beginning of me knowing about the A he would have said the opposite. Once H and I got things sorted and back on track he changed. I am glad you are going to look at Retro and give this a shot. I agree with Going Forward though, if you do all this and still feel after giving it a proper try that you are just staying for the children, then that's not so good. Plenty of people do stay for that reason alone, but personally that was not enough for us. I didn't want to waste more years on a M that wasn't going to work and lose precious years to such misery,-(I didn't include time trying to work on the M in the wasted years category- I owed my M and my family that). Luckily for me it didn't come to that and the M was renewed.

I wish you luck - don't forget to let us know how you get on - either way. Please be sensitive though to those on this forum who are in great pain after discovering infidelity. It is very useful to hear things frm the betrayer's point of view but if put across insensitively it really hurts. That is not to belittle the hurt you are going through; just an observation.