Turning the Page

[RedHeadWife]

Checking in again. Where are you?

[theforlornhope]

Sorry everyone, I should have posted that I was w/o internet while I was in St Louis. I was going to, but I was rushing around so much trying to beat an incoming ice storm, I missed it.

I just about went through withdrawal BTW.

Being with family was nice, yet also the expected downer, talk about the D sit. of course. I also really missed my kids and my wife. I did get to eat way too much great food though.

Visiting with my old USMC buddies was also awesome, ate too much, indulged a tiny hair too much, stayed up late and BSed WAY too much.



Thanks everyone for the replies. I really appreciate it. It's unbelieveable how much this board helps. You guys are the greatest.

RHW, thanks for the encouragement, (it really helps.) and checking up on me, I love hearing your positive outlook. I know exactly what you mean about a nap. My boys don't like to take them anymore, I wish I could trade them.

RCR, thank you, I really appreciate your help. That was as close to verbatim as I could remember. It would not have been anywhere near as well thought out, and constructive (or less-damaging?) if I hadn't been in the process of editing one of those letters I mentioned above. Most of what I said came from that. I think that the timing was about perfect there, but also, I had clarified my thoughts, and identified and removed angry / accusatory words and phrases. I could have done better, but past experience shows I could have done a LOT worse.

Jack, thanks man, and I could have shortened it up a LOT, but she didn't give me enough time to finish editing my letter.

I think I did feel proud, (and frightened about pushing,) but I am mostly proud of the way that I conducted myself. THIS is who I am, not the "please don't do this to me and the kids" guy.

LMAO, a bit wordy, yeah, ESPECIALLY for a Marine. We usually speak fluent monosyllables and profanity.

I haven't heard Metallica's version yet, so Segar.

MMF, thanks, I think I need to keep quiet about it now too. I've said it as calmly and quietly as I can, more would probably just be pushing unless she opens the door on the subject with less anger.

I would love to see her begin counseling, but I also worry about her finding the "do what makes you feel good" type of counselor. I'm starting to expect that my S6 might need counseling after the D. I am considering a children's group or art therapy type approach if he does.


Thanks again to all four of you. I hope that you had an excellent holliday, as much as possible.

[RedHeadWife]

I know what you mean about counseling of some sort for the boys. I had the same thoughts when going through my sitch. I knew my oldest (S7) was going to need something. They are so much smarter and intuitive than we sometimes give them credit for.

As for me -- well, I don't know how positive I'm being of late. I'm just having a "down on Red" time right now for some reason. Hopefully it will get better in 3 wks time

[theforlornhope]

The cordial friendliness seems to have disappeared since our separate Thanksgiving holidays. I'm not sure why, but it has gone back to anger / calm / anger, etc.

Yesterday I was in a great mood listening to music and fixing dinner when she came home. It seemed to put her in a bad mood. I tried to ignore it. She was nasty with S4 over lotion for his face, and I had to stop dinner and carry him around for a while to stop the crying. When he calmed down, I got his lotion and finished dinner. After dinner, it was a race to do the dishes. Normally my job, but as before with who gets them dressed, she has become possessive over their caretaking / housekeeping. I've always been proud to do AMAP, but recently it's a competition with her. Since she beat me to the dishes, I asked her "do you want to do the dishes or give them a bath. Her reply was a very loaded, "whatever you want to do." I opted for the bath. As I went into the master, (her,) bedroom, I saw the much guarded cell phone on the dresser. Alone. Unattended. Calling me like a still beating heart. Without her....... I left it there.

After their bath, I brought them downstairs for 30 min before bed. She fairly raced up the stairs and spent the next 15 Min in her bedroom. I wonder what I should have been snooping for that I missed.

I started watching television, and she went to bed about 15 min after the boys. Screw it, I watched a good western anyway. At least she said "goodnight" for once.



Anyway, this morning she was alternately angry and nice about every 5 min. Very weird. I ignored it and acted as-if. During breakfast she asked me about #####, (S4's namesake,) a Marine I saw last week. I said he was fine, then I said, "Actually he's not fine. He's having a very bad time right now because his fiance' is dumping him. He financed her new business, bought her a truck, and took the promotion to (other state,) on the understanding that she was coming out there. Since then, she has started hanging around with party friends, and esp. one guy who is 'just a friend' that she sees regularly. She has decided she doesn't "love him anymore," and he is having a hard time of it. He also has a $16,000 engagement ring that he doesn't know what to do with now."

This is our sit in a nutshell before kids, and why I started not to say anything.

She said, "he should have bought her a ring on the cheap."

Wow.

I said "##### doesn't do things on the cheap, he financed her business and bought her a car, he loves her." Then I went outside to start her car.

Wow.

I got S4 ready, (she takes him to daycare.) cleaned up, started her car for her, etc. She got angry about several things with the kids and me, but esp. about not being able to find her keys, (I started her car to melt ice and warm it up.) She managed to say "thank you," about warming up her car, but just barely.


Tonight she was pretty civil, but very distant / cold. I left for bed early, it was a long day at work and I'm too tired for that.


I wonder if we're not just exhibiting a muted version of our old vicious cycle of anger / withdrawal. I need to figure out a way not to continue that if that's what it is.

I am throwing myself wholeheartedly into GAL, and acting as-if, but it makes her angry.

It makes me feel so much better about myself. I am doing it for me, for my reasons. Truly acting as-if for the last few weeks makes me feel at peace. I'm doing what I can, the best I can, and I know it!

I do take some satisfaction that she is angry about it, since so many experienced people here say that anger is not bad, the opposite of love isn't anger, it is indifference.

I don't think I am doing this for the wrong reasons, but sometimes I doubt myself and wonder if I'm not "taking the high road" just to make her feel bad.

I don't think so, but her anger, (over guilt?) makes me feel guilty. Wierd, conceited, and paranoid, I suppose.


Anyway, it feels right, so I'm not stopping. I just wish I could break the cycle of one of us often avoiding the other in the evenings.

[theforlornhope]

The cordial friendliness seems to have disappeared since our separate Thanksgiving holidays. I'm not sure why, but it has gone back to anger / calm / anger, etc.

Yesterday I was in a great mood listening to music and fixing dinner when she came home. It seemed to put her in a bad mood. I tried to ignore it. She was nasty with S4 over lotion for his face, and I had to stop dinner and carry him around for a while to stop the crying. When he calmed down, I got his lotion and finished dinner. After dinner, it was a race to do the dishes. Normally my job, but as before with who gets them dressed, she has become possessive over their caretaking / housekeeping. I've always been proud to do AMAP, but recently it's a competition with her. Since she beat me to the dishes, I asked her "do you want to do the dishes or give them a bath. Her reply was a very loaded, "whatever you want to do." I opted for the bath. As I went into the master, (her,) bedroom, I saw the much guarded cell phone on the dresser. Alone. Unattended. Calling me like a still beating heart. Without her....... I left it there.

After their bath, I brought them downstairs for 30 min before bed. She fairly raced up the stairs and spent the next 15 Min in her bedroom. I wonder what I should have been snooping for that I missed.

I started watching television, and she went to bed about 15 min after the boys. Screw it, I watched a good western anyway. At least she said "goodnight" for once.



Anyway, this morning she was alternately angry and nice about every 5 min. Very weird. I ignored it and acted as-if. During breakfast she asked me about #####, (S4's namesake,) a Marine I saw last week. I said he was fine, then I said, "Actually he's not fine. He's having a very bad time right now because his fiance' is dumping him. He financed her new business, bought her a truck, and took the promotion to (other state,) on the understanding that she was coming out there. Since then, she has started hanging around with party friends, and esp. one guy who is 'just a friend' that she sees regularly. She has decided she doesn't "love him anymore," and he is having a hard time of it. He also has a $16,000 engagement ring that he doesn't know what to do with now."

This is our sit in a nutshell before kids, and why I started not to say anything.

She said, "he should have bought her a ring on the cheap."

Wow.

I said "##### doesn't do things on the cheap, he financed her business and bought her a car, he loves her." Then I went outside to start her car.

Wow.

I got S4 ready, (she takes him to daycare.) cleaned up, started her car for her, etc. She got angry about several things with the kids and me, but esp. about not being able to find her keys, (I started her car to melt ice and warm it up.) She managed to say "thank you," about warming up her car, but just barely.


Tonight she was pretty civil, but very distant / cold. I left for bed early, it was a long day at work and I'm too tired for that.


I wonder if we're not just exhibiting a muted version of our old vicious cycle of anger / withdrawal. I need to figure out a way not to continue that if that's what it is.

I am throwing myself wholeheartedly into GAL, and acting as-if, but it makes her angry.

It makes me feel so much better about myself. I am doing it for me, for my reasons. Truly acting as-if for the last few weeks makes me feel at peace. I'm doing what I can, the best I can, and I know it!

I do take some satisfaction that she is angry about it, since so many experienced people here say that anger is not bad, the opposite of love isn't anger, it is indifference.

I don't think I am doing this for the wrong reasons, but sometimes I doubt myself and wonder if I'm not "taking the high road" just to make her feel bad.

I don't think so, but her anger, (over guilt?) makes me feel guilty. Wierd, conceited, and paranoid, I suppose.


Anyway, it feels right, so I'm not stopping. I just wish I could break the cycle of one of us often avoiding the other in the evenings.

[theforlornhope]

RHW, I hope that S6 won't need it, but I am afraid he will.

The cordial friendliness seems to have disappeared since our separate Thanksgiving holidays. I'm not sure why, but it has gone back to anger / calm / anger, etc.

Yesterday I was in a great mood listening to music and fixing dinner when she came home. It seemed to put her in a bad mood. I tried to ignore it. She was nasty with S4 over lotion for his face, and I had to stop dinner and carry him around for a while to stop the crying. When he calmed down, I got his lotion and finished dinner. After dinner, it was a race to do the dishes. Normally my job, but as before with who gets them dressed, she has become possessive over their caretaking / housekeeping. I've always been proud to do AMAP, but recently it's a competition with her. Since she beat me to the dishes, I asked her "do you want to do the dishes or give them a bath. Her reply was a very loaded, "whatever you want to do." I opted for the bath. As I went into the master, (her,) bedroom, I saw the much guarded cell phone on the dresser. Alone. Unattended. Calling me like a still beating heart. Without her....... I left it there.

After their bath, I brought them downstairs for 30 min before bed. She fairly raced up the stairs and spent the next 15 Min in her bedroom. I wonder what I should have been snooping for that I missed.

I started watching television, and she went to bed about 15 min after the boys. Screw it, I watched a good western anyway. At least she said "goodnight" for once.



Anyway, this morning she was alternately angry and nice about every 5 min. Very weird. I ignored it and acted as-if. During breakfast she asked me about #####, (S4's namesake,) a Marine I saw last week. I said he was fine, then I said, "Actually he's not fine. He's having a very bad time right now because his fiance' is dumping him. He financed her new business, bought her a truck, and took the promotion to (other state,) on the understanding that she was coming out there. Since then, she has started hanging around with party friends, and esp. one guy who is 'just a friend' that she sees regularly. She has decided she doesn't "love him anymore," and he is having a hard time of it. He also has a $16,000 engagement ring that he doesn't know what to do with now."

This is our sit in a nutshell before kids, and why I started not to say anything.

She said, "he should have bought her a ring on the cheap."

Wow.

I said "##### doesn't do things on the cheap, he financed her business and bought her a car, he loves her." Then I went outside to start her car.

Wow.

I got S4 ready, (she takes him to daycare.) cleaned up, started her car for her, etc. She got angry about several things with the kids and me, but esp. about not being able to find her keys, (I started her car to melt ice and warm it up.) She managed to say "thank you," about warming up her car, but just barely.


Tonight she was pretty civil, but very distant / cold. I left for bed early, it was a long day at work and I'm too tired for that.


I wonder if we're not just exhibiting a muted version of our old vicious cycle of anger / withdrawal. I need to figure out a way not to continue that if that's what it is.

I am throwing myself wholeheartedly into GAL, and acting as-if, but it makes her angry.

It makes me feel so much better about myself. I am doing it for me, for my reasons. Truly acting as-if for the last few weeks makes me feel at peace. I'm doing what I can, the best I can, and I know it!

I do take some satisfaction that she is angry about it, since so many experienced people here say that anger is not bad, the opposite of love isn't anger, it is indifference.

I don't think I am doing this for the wrong reasons, but sometimes I doubt myself and wonder if I'm not "taking the high road" just to make her feel bad.

I don't think so, but her anger, (over guilt?) makes me feel guilty. Wierd, conceited, and paranoid, I suppose.


Anyway, it feels right, so I'm not stopping. I just wish I could break the cycle of one of us often avoiding the other in the evenings.

[theforlornhope]

oops

[Grace_O]

I saw the much guarded cell phone on the dresser. Alone. Unattended. Calling me like a still beating heart. Without her....... I left it there.

Big HUGS for you! You didn't miss anything.

She said, "he should have bought her a ring on the cheap."

Wow is right. It makes me wonder how little she things of herself esp right now.

I do take some satisfaction that she is angry about it, since so many experienced people here say that anger is not bad, the opposite of love isn't anger, it is indifference.

Anger doesn't scare me...indifference does. It's nothing.

It's really hard when they don't respond or do it in an angry way that makes you feel like you're falling into old patterns. While my H and I didn't really argue or fight, one of the things I do now if he's angry is to ask him if he wants to talk about it. If he raises his voice to me, I calmly ask why he's yelling at me? It points out the behavior in a different way and while he usually withdraws, I feel good that I've taken a different action and one that works for me. I know he's thinking when he withdraws, I see the little wheels turning.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Fhope,

Hey Marine, you holding up well?

I have an affinity for you jar heads. Historically, the Coast Guards' only Medal of Honor recipient Douglas Munro:

The landing craft had meanwhile been readied at Lunga Point Base. Again, virtually the same boats that had put the Marines on the beach were assembled to extract them. Douglas Munro, who had taken charge of the original landing, volunteered to lead the boats back to the beach. None of these boats were heavily armed or well protected. For instance, Munro's Higgin's boat had a plywood hull, it was slow, vulnerable to small arms fire, and was armed only with two air-cooled .30 caliber Lewis machine guns.

As Munro led the boats ashore the Japanese fired on the small craft from Point Cruz, the ridges abandoned by the Marines, and from positions east of the beach. This intense fire from three strong interlocking positions disrupted the landing and caused a number of casualties among the virtually defenseless crews in the boats. Despite the intense fire Munro led the boats ashore. Reaching the shore in waves, Munro led them to the beach two or three at a time to pick up the Marines. Munro and Petty Officer Raymond Evans provided covering fire from an exposed position on the beach.

As the Marines reembarked, the Japanese pressed toward the beach making the withdrawal more dangerous with each second. The Monssen and Leslie's Douglas "Dauntless" dive bomber provided additional cover for the withdrawing Marines. The Marines arrived on the beach to embark on the landing craft while the Japanese kept up a murderous fire from the ridges about 500 yards from the beach. Munro, seeing the dangerous situation, maneuvered his boat between the enemy and those withdrawing to protect the remnants of the battalion. Successfully providing cover, all the Marines including twenty-five wounded managed to escape.

With all the Marines safely in the small craft, Munro and Evans steered their LCP off shore. As they passed towards Point Cruz they noticed an LCT full of Marines grounded on the beach. Munro steered his craft and directed another tank lighter to pull it off. Twenty minutes later, the craft was free and heading to sea. Before they could get far from shore, the Japanese set up a machine gun and began firing at the boats. Evans saw the fire and shouted a warning to Munro. The roar of the boat's engine, however, prevented Munro from hearing and a single bullet hit him in the base of the skull. Petty Officer Munro died before reaching the operating base, but due to his extraordinary heroism, outstanding leadership and gallantry, Munro posthumously received the Medal of Honor.

Personally:

War games with you guys going up against the navy with our small boats and getting you undetected on some of the Navy Bases. : ) It was always fun to see your reactions to the fact that our side arms were hot. And our inability to understand why all your ammo clips had so much duct tape on them they looked like nerf footballs.

And while I suffered some pretty massive injuries from an incident in a bar that happened because of a Marine, it was also my Marine buddies that pulled me out. No, not a fight with a Marine, he just did something stupid and the locals thought I had done it.

I wonder if we're not just exhibiting a muted version of our old vicious cycle of anger / withdrawal. I need to figure out a way not to continue that if that's what it is.

Good for you. Figure this out. It will be vital, realizing that there is a problem, or was is the first step to correcting it.

I am throwing myself wholeheartedly into GAL, and acting as-if, but it makes her angry.

Her being angry is ok. You cannot control that. You might be able to mitigate it, but again, GAL is for you, as long as the responsibilites are still equal. Make sense?
If you GALing is leaving her to do everything...then, well that isn't exactly fair. No MLC is not fair, but do not take advantage of it. Remember you want to be an example of consitency and stability, what she is missing, not what she wants to get away from.

It makes me feel so much better about myself. I am doing it for me, for my reasons. Truly acting as-if for the last few weeks makes me feel at peace. I'm doing what I can, the best I can, and I know it!

I do take some satisfaction that she is angry about it, since so many experienced people here say that anger is not bad, the opposite of love isn't anger, it is indifference.

Agreed. Anger is emotion, and passion in the wrong focus.

I don't think I am doing this for the wrong reasons, but sometimes I doubt myself and wonder if I'm not "taking the high road" just to make her feel bad.

I don't think so, but her anger, (over guilt?) makes me feel guilty. Wierd, conceited, and paranoid, I suppose.

Are you going 'overboard' with the high road? Are you competing with her over the attention of the children? I speak from experience when I say I compared myself to my wife and yes to some degree there was a competition. I toned it down a little but kept having fun while still maintaining discipline with my boys. Be careful. Be very careful, it is an easy trap to fall into using our children as tools in this. Even if all you are doing is loving them more or paying more attention to them, looking over you shoulder to see if she notices.

Because if you do that...you have to keep it up, if you manage to increase your time with your children they sure as hell are going to notice if/when it slacks off because a gaol was achieved.

I am not saying you are doing this. This is just a heads up.

Anyway, it feels right, so I'm not stopping. I just wish I could break the cycle of one of us often avoiding the other in the evenings.

Do you want to be alone or would you like some company?
Do you want to play backgammon? (insert game she likes)

Open a door, a small door. But expect nothing. Keep it light, watch one of her shows with her.

I do have a question.
Did/does you wife ever feel left out because of your brotherhood with your buddies? Has she ever felt slighted or second best to them?

[theforlornhope]

Grace, thank you! I know that stupid thing shouldn't even tempt me, but it does. Clearly I have some work to do on detaching yet. Sometimes I feel very detached, sometimes I don't. Like that old almond joy commercial. Only it's sometimes I feel like I'm nuts, sometimes I don't.

I wonder too. I guess the self esteem issues are wrapped up with her feeling like she has no control over her own life. It doesn't make sense, but then I'm sane..... I think.



Occasionally she tries to act indifferent, and it scares the crap outta me when she does a good job with it.

We almost never fought until the IDLYA and OM bomb 2.5 yrs ago, fought a LOT for about 5 months, (my fault that,) and off and on since as the MLC behaviors / D bombs came up.

I'm finally getting to a good point with her anger, and not letting it push my buttons so much.

Me not letting her push my buttons is a BIG 180 for me.


How's your puppy Grace?