GD's New Dance

[ItsKat]

Hey, GD.

Sorry about the party and your W starting to be more ugly towards you. Hopefully your friends will get tired of her calling the shots of who can and cannot come to their parties and they will stop inviting her and OM (isn't he way older anyway?). I agree that her coldness could have to do with a combination of several possible reasons. I am also sorry that you are feeling used by her, but I am glad you realized it and did something about it before all the papers were signed. You only have the obligation to take care of you and your kids now and I am sure you will do that job well.

As far as you and Heim dancing together--your dance partner, Dina, was telling us how whenever two guys would dance together an ambulance would always have to be called. I guess it would get a little dangerous when they would try to out-do each other. So, be careful, you two!

[Heimlich]

Thanks for ranting with/for me,

You got it. Lemme know if you ever want me to work myself into a lather of righteous indignation for you again. Feels pretty good and if I do it in my sitch, I just get pi$$ed.

Sorry it's turning this way for you. Sara has a pretty good point, your W will show her true colors in the coming weeks. If she's about the money being for the kids, then the money being put in trust for them should make her plenty happy. And, egads, you paid off her student loan. My lord, if she can't appreciate that, my man . . .

I have to agree with you on the party. You're friends did you wrong.

BD

[SunnySeason]

Hi GD,

Just read the update regarding your change in splitting your inheritance w/ your W.

I posted this to you a couple of weeks ago, after she made it clear she wasn't interested in extending the D date. In fact, if I remember correctly, she rolled her eyes at the suggestion.

Last night, after reading about the "talk", I put myself in your W's place to see how it might look.

This is going to sound shallow; One of the "thoughts" I had as your W, is that if I don't get a D now, then I'm back to being in limbo w/ parts of my life, especially financially.

She knows that the offer of sharing the proceeds from the sale of the house is a generous one. If you stop things now, she might not be in that position again.

Maybe she wants to go ahead with it, get in a better position, & then consider a new R with you

.

I think you're approaching this in a much healthier way, & keeping it more in a business mode, which is where it should prolly be.

Her behavior is questionable, at best. Certainly not wise for someone who wants a favorable deal to show before it actually closes.

Makes ya wonder, don't it! That was a pretty expensive party she went to......

L&L,

Sunny

[Gone Dancin']

Thanks Sara, Kat, Heim, and Sunny!

I agree that I should set up some sort of trust fund for the kids, though I don't know what the $ amount will be. I'm going to look into it in the near future. I also agree that this will take some wind out of her sails, though it will likely be minimal.

You are definitely going to see that girl's true colors in the very near future.

I completely agree, and I think I'm seeing them "blossom" already! She may try to be sweet in an attempt to go back to agreeing to give her the money, but I'm not going to fall for that. If she wanted to be nice to me for the right reasons, she would've been nice to me this whole time, and I'm not going to let a short term behavior sway me.

And, egads, you paid off her student loan. My lord, if she can't appreciate that, my man . . .

Trust me, Heim -- it's not enough because it's not what she expected and wants. Sad, but true... Maybe someday she'll understand and learn to be appreciative, but I don't see that happening for many, many years.

I think you're approaching this in a much healthier way, & keeping it more in a business mode, which is where it should prolly be.

Thanks. I'm sure I could be doing a better job of not letting my emotions get involved, but I do understand that this is about me and my kids' future -- not hers. I made the original offer mostly out of guilt, and the hope that she would see my kindness as sincere. However, the latter was never the case (she thought she deserved it, was entitled to it, etc). I've also come to realize that I cannot buy her forgiveness with my offer out of guilt. I would only come to resent both her and my decision in later years, knowing that she didn't deserve it and had no right to it. Whether or not my emotions are involved, not giving her the money is still the "correct" and unfoolish thing to do. It isn't selfish -- it's unfoolish (is that even a word? Heck, I'm the English teacher and still don't know! ).

Her behavior is questionable, at best. Certainly not wise for someone who wants a favorable deal to show before it actually closes.

Quite true -- she's definitely not thinking at all right now. Actually, don't think she has been for some time...

That was a pretty expensive party she went to......

That wasn't the root cause, but it certainly did factor in to cementing things in my mind. I had been kicking around the idea with a friend all day long prior to finding out I wasn't invited to the party because of her and OM.

Quick update:

Got a lot of papertrail work done today showing the house was purchased through my inheritance. I'll be talking with my atty again tomorrow in hopes of having all of my ducks in a row for trial on Wednesday.

W did leave a VM on my cell today while it was charging. She wasn't rude sounding, but it did have a hint of concern or smidge of kindness to it. It simply said, "Hey it's me. Can you call me when you get this? Thanks, bye."

Didn't call her back and don't plan to. If she can't leave a reason as to why, I'm gonna leave the ball in her court until she can. I'm not going to be mean, angry, an ass, etc. I'm just ready to "flush the toilet" and wash my hands of her. It's time to play hardball. As long as she is the person she has become (which is much worse than she was when we were together), I want nothing to do with her personally. Nothing.

This release of desire for her feels really good! I mean...REALLY good! Thanks again, W -- your attitude despite all of my help and kindness has shown me the light!

GD

[alk24]

GD,

Bless your heart. I know all this is hard to deal with right now, but atleast it's giving you the detachment you need.

[Gone Dancin']

W called both my cell and the home phone again today and left a VM and home message after I didn't return her calls yesterday. I called her back a while later and we talked for a good hour and a half about many things, but mostly about me deciding not to give her the money from the sale of the house anymore. I'll post in great detail later (tonight?), but just wanted to at least provide that update. Trial has now been moved from today (Wed) to Dec. 7th. I've got a lot to report out regarding the conversation, so have your reading glasses ready!

Going out for a late night bike ride to clear my head.

GD

[christarn]

Thanks for boosting my PMA GD...I needed that....I will have my reading glasses ready!! Bike ride motorcycle...or physical bike...just curious! Keep your chin up my man...sending some good vibes your way!! (((GD)))... Christa

[Not Much Left]

GD
You apparently didnt fall off your bike and hit your head last night, so good job!

Ready and waiting for the update.

C

[oldtimer]

Sounds like you've gotten excellent advice.

Just to emphasize -- protect your best financial interests in the D. Period. It is financial business. Period.

You can always be more or less generous with your cash after the settlement agreement is in place. You can pay for whatever you want, put whatever you want in trust, and so on.

But, do not bind up your flexibility in a legal financial agreement that will be pretty much set in stone.

Insofar as impossible minimize your *legal* financial commitment to W. If you feel you have a moral commitment above the legal commitment, fine. Meet that moral commitment outside of the legal framework.

[Gone Dancin']

Thanks for boosting my PMA GD...I needed that

No problem, christa!

Bike ride motorcycle...or physical bike

Bicycle ride -- the exercise helps to clear my head. I always wanted a street bike, but my W despised them and thought they were stupid. Think I'll get one one of these days. Gonna get one of the new Camaros when they hit the market too.


Okay, I'll try not to be too long with my update. Keep in mind that W and I talked for a long time, so the following isn't by any means in chronological order (though I'll do my best):

So, W called again yesterday leaving a VM that said, "Hey, it's W. I don't know if there has been some sort of misunderstanding, but call me when you get this. Thanks, bye."

So I waited about an hour, then called her back. We talked for about an hour and a half, and all the while she was at work (?!?!). She started out by saying that her atty called her yesterday and told her that I had decided not to offer her half of the money from the sale of the house. W then said that she didn't know what had happened, and that if it was about the date she set in the D decree for when the house had to be on the market, she would be willing to extend it to whenever I wanted, and that she was sorry for not calling me back over the weekend when I originally called about it on Friday (she made some lame excuses for why she couldn't call me). She then apologized again for any misunderstandings.

During this time I just sat back and calmly and patiently listened to her, making sure she got out whatever she was wanting to say. Then, when it seemed she was done, I told her that I am sorry for my change of heart, but that I did a lot of thinking this weekend and came to the conclusion that I had originally offered her the money for the wrong reasons -- out of guilt, as well as incentive for her to appreciate me -- and now realize that I need to protect the money for my own future and my family's future. I said that when she left and chose to stick with the D, she made the decision to not be a part of my family, and my inheritance was intended to take care of me and my family, and therefore it isn't my responsibility, nor is it in my best interest to make sure she is or she and her BF are financially stable and/or comfortable. This was all said very sincerely, calmly, and evenly. I also said that I understand that this change of action on my part may very well cause her to resent me, and may permanently close the door on any possible friendship or reconciliation between us, but that this is a sacrifice I now feel I must make. I added that if I don't, I know I will resent her for the rest of my life for getting money that came about as a result of the death of my family -- money that I no longer believe she is entitled to.

W countered by saying that she just wanted a place where the kids could have their own space, a yard to play in, etc, and that the kids deserve to have a place with those things and where they are comfortable. I rebuttalled by saying they did have a place 24/7 where this was the case -- it was our place, which is now only my place.

She said I know, but I couldn't stay any longer. I tried until I was just dead inside. I was empty, and I couldn't try anymore.

I told her that I will do whatever I can to help her get to a point where she can get her own place, but that it isn't my responsibility to provide one for her anymore. I said that I will always do whatever needs to be done for the kids -- anytime the kids need something from her that she can't afford, I will be there to help out. I then stated that besides that, my only job as far her and the kids' home goes is to make sure it is a safe environment for the kids. It isn't my job to make sure they have their own space, and yard, etc -- I only need to make sure the home is safe for them (thanks for helping me with this, Nikki!).

As the conversation continued, she asked if I didn't believe that she should have a fresh start without having to struggle financially, since that's what I get to have. I answered by saying that I will do whatever I can to help her get back on her feet, but that I don't believe she is entitled or deserves $250,000 of my family's money to get her there. I told her that I already cleared her student loan debt and don't want any repayment of that. I then added that I'm willing to pay 80% of daycare expenses while the kids are in daycare, that I will allow her to claim both kids an dependents on her taxes for as long as she wants, that I will pay off any medical debt still standing from her diabetes and such, and that I will even put down some earnest money on a house once she gets in a position to buy one. I said that legally I don't have to do any of these things, but I want to because I don't want her to have to struggle a great deal. However, that being said, I added that I don't think it is healthy or in my best interest to hand her a promising future anymore.

She said that she felt like I was punishing her, and I replied that I wasn't intending to do so at all -- why would I be willing to do these other things if I was? -- but once I took the emotions out of everything I realized that I was giving her the money for the wrong reasons. I told her that I no longer feel guilty for the breakdown of the M. I've come to accept my mistakes, embrace them, and let them go because I cannot change them, but that I can, am, and will change how I behave and make choices in the future. I said I now realize that she had a large role in the M falling apart, and that I shouldn't have to take all of the blame for it. I finished by saying that these realizations have helped me to look at the situation logically and reasonably, and allowed me to see that this offer was simply the wrong thing to do.

She said that she felt that because her name was on the house, it made her entitled to the money. I said that while she was with me, she was an equal partner with an equal say about the house, and that her name was on it for legal reasons and to make her feel like she was an equal in regard to decisions about the house. I continued by saying that I know that I could've done a much better job of making her feel like she had an equal say in things and that she had an equal partnership in decisions regarding the house and the money. I acknowledged that I didn't do this, and that I always had to approve of things she wanted, yet never needed her approval for things that I wanted. I said I feel awful for this, and know that it was so wrong of me, but that because I've come to realize these things, I know that I would've made it right and changed this behavior and dynamic had she decided to give me and our M another chance.

She agreed that I controlled all of the financial decisions, and added that I either had to approve things she wanted, or she had to hide her purchases. I validated this, and empathized with her feelings about it and told her that I now see how wrong it all was, and that because of the separation I've been able to come to grips with a lot of my short comings in the M. I told her that through my IC work and the reading of many relationship books and self help books I came to accept that I was critical of her, judgemental, controlling -- that I belittled her at times, made her feel stupid, etc. I said that all of these things were/are inexcusable, and I can understand why she felt she had to leave. However, I added that without the separation and my efforts to look deep within myself, none of this would've been possible, and I likely wouldn't have been able to accept these things and make the necessary changes for both myself and either our R/M or any future R I have.

I said that I so wished she wouldn't have given up on me and our nM, and that she would've given the separation more time, tried MC, etc. She replied by saying she was willing to give the separation more time, but that I forced her to make a decision (which I did, a mere 6-7 weeks after first separating). I agreed that I know my doing so was wrong, and had I known then what I know now -- that you needed so much time and space -- I would still be okay with being separated and still wouldn't be pressuring her to decide. I added that she had denied my multiple offers to rescind the D filing, postpone the D, etc, and that she had flat out refused the MC idea long ago even during the separation period. I told her that it seems to me that she never had any intention of getting back together with me, even during the separation period. She denied this, and actually said she was willing to consider it, but I forced her decision too early and she wasn't ready to work it out at that time, and now she isn't willing to try anymore either.

We talked about many more things, and that sad part is that she did say she knew she had played a part in the breakdown of the M, but she never actually verbalized what her part, mistakes, etc, were. This tells me that she really hasn't reflected on this, nor really taken responsibility for it, and was more or less telling me this in an attempt to win back my original offer for the money. Just saying what she had to to change my mind.

I also told her that I didn't feel right setting her and her BF up to be comfortable with my family's money. She then said that she had no intention of moving her BF in with her once she got a house. I then told her that I had heard that her and her BF had been discussing it in terms of "when WE get a house," and "OUR house," etc. She denied this, saying that her and her BF never talked about the money or the house like this. Personally, I don't know why my friend would've said he heard this if they hadn't talked this way. Who am I supposed to believe: my WAW or my friend? Anyway, I said that she moved in with him and is living with him now, so why would that change when you got a house (would she really make him stay in his own place and struggle with rent while she living rent/mortgage free? Come on!)? She just said that she only moved in with him because she couldn't afford to live on her own anymore, which is what I speculated in the first place. I answered with saying that I'm sorry you had to do that, but again it was your choice to leave me without doing everything we could to work it out, and this is just another one of the natural consequences that resulted from that decision. I cannot help these things, because it isn't my place to do so. You chose to get into a new relationship, and I'm happy that you're happy in it, but whether or not your BF was going to move in with you or not, it's not my place to provide for you anymore.

I know that she isn't doing well with her BF right now, but played dumb regarding this knowledge, and she actually agreed that she was happy right now. I believe she did this because she doesn't want me to know she's having R problems with him, simply because she'll know I'll be thinking, "Ha ha, I knew it wouldn't work out!" The more I think about it all, the more I wonder if she really wasn't going to let him move in with her, and was planning on dumping him when she became financially independent. Oh well, I think I'll let her dig herself out of this situation with her BF. It's not my job to do so. If she only moved in with him for financial reasons, that sure says a lot to me!

We also kind of bantered back and forth about what we personally did well in the R, and this really didn't get us anywhere, and constantly got us off the main point regarding the money. I think that eventually she finally realized that I wasn't going to budge on the money issue, and that I was very serious and determined not to give in to it, and that trying to convince me to do so was in vain.

She also did admit that she had seen changes in me, and that she was surprised about the ways in which I reacted when she had gotten pissy or angry with me. She admitted that my calmness and acceptance of her feelings had caught her off guard, and that she knew that in the past I would've gotten angry back at her and likely even hung up on her. This made me feel good, because it confirmed that she had recognized my changes in behavior. However, it saddens me to know it didn't change her mind. She told me that even though she had seen these changes, it was too late because she was still emotionally done inside. She did, however, tell me that this was hard on her emotionally too, and if I didn't believe this that I was very wrong.

I also told her earlier in the talk that I never wanted her to come back because of guilt, or because she was or was going to struggle financially. I said that I wanted her to come back only if she realized that she did love me, saw changes in me that were genuine and long term, and was willing to work 100% on the M. I said this is why I helped her financially over the last 9 months, and also why I made the offer regarding the sale of the house. I wanted her to come back for the right reasons, if she was going to come back at all.

Throughout the entire conversation, neither of us got angry or short with the other. We were both very sincere and respectful to one another, but it did seem to me that she still placed all of the blame on me. She did get cry to some extent during the conversation, and began balling at the end, finishing the talk by saying that she had to pee really bad and had to go.

She hasn't done the work on herself yet, and I think that the next several months may allow her to do this -- I just don't know.

So, the D has officially be post-poned. The new trial date is set for Dec. 7th (Pearl Harbor day). I wonder if the holiday season will come into play at all regarding her emotions? One thing is for sure: I'm going to be completely detaching during this time. I'm going to ask that the child exchanges only be done at daycare (so we don't have to be in personal contact with one another). I'm going to continue GALing and contacting her only regarding necessary kid issues (i.e. minimal contact), and will attempt to do this via text messages and/or written notes exchanged through the daycare medium. She doesn't have the internet, so I can't use that (darn it!). I will try to keep actual phone contact to a minimum.

We'll see if this helps her to begin reflecting on things. Don't think it will (at least regarding us), but maybe it will help her reflect on herself and what she really wants. I actually hope that her BF and her breakup so she can work on herself. I think she needs this, and if they do breakup I will offer to help her to get by on her own for a while.

Thanks for trudging through my long post -- needed to get all of that out. I'm feeling a little guilty about taking the money offer back, but I know that it is the right thing to do. Heck, I'm still helping her out quite a bit, and even told her that most people walk away from a M with sustantial debt to their name, and that I've taken care of hers so she has the best chance to start out in a good financial position. No more car or student loans -- just regular everyday bills. That's reality, and she's going to have to deal with it. If it ruins our friendship or any chance at future reconciliation, so be it. I will not risk my future to save this. Not anymore. If she can't appreciate the kindness and help I've already provided and will continue to provide, I don't want that friendship or R.

We'll see if she can quit being selfish and see the big picture.

GD