Thank you all for checking in and giving me your input. Sandi - H returned with no changed heart on his end. But I didn't expect that anyway so felt no disappointment. H said he was exhausted and going up to sleep in the guest bedroom - said he would start moving his clothing little by little tomorrow night and would spend the first night at his rented room tomorrow night. I asked if he had thought about finances, how to tell the kids, visitation, etc. He said he really hadn't. I said there was no better time than the present - we needed to have a united front for the sake of the kids and be at least verbally on the same page. We worked out what we felt was best to tell the kids and plan on doing so tomorrow afternoon. Makes me sick that my babies have to go through this - but perhaps they will take the news better than I think. We plan to say that mommy and daddy are having problems and need to take a break from one another - that daddy would be living elsewhere for awhile. We will tell them we love them, that this has nothing to do with them, that they are safe and will always have mommy and daddy in their lives. He did tell me that he didn't want to tell them he would never be moving back. he said that one of two scenarios will emerge - that either he will decide to come back for good or we will have to divorce. He only wants to tell the kids he is not coming back if we divorce (duh!) H still feels like he is in the driver's seat. And while I would like to have a future marriage with him ( I acknowledge this present form of our marriage is over) I can't say how my feelings might change after he has been gone for awhile.
We then talked about visitation - I am seeing a child psychologist this Wednesday - this person consults with the lawyer I will retain (if necessary) and supposedly will be able to give me insight into the best visitation schedule for all involved, but favoring my future with the kids, of course. H knows about this appointment but doesn't know all of the specifics. H did not want to wait until I spoke with the psychologist and wants to tell the kids tomorrow but said he felt comfortable with me coming back to him and changing the visitation schedule we discussed. He wants to come every weekend, alternating coming on Friday one weekend and then on Saturday the next. He will stay here with the kids and I will leave the home. I do have places I can go and stay, but this may be problematic for me as I'm not sure I can or want to be gone every weekend. I need to figure out what is best for me but it's confusing because I want to be tactical in case we do divorce but also solution oriented in terms of DB-ing. He will also come two nights a week (I chose the days and he was fine with them - I have meetings and groups to attend those two days). He also wanted to be able to say goodnight to the kids every night via skype. I told him I would do what was best for the kids but wasn't sure I was comfortable with this. He also said I could stay in the house on the nights he spends here if I was comfortable - I told him this was a separation and so I was not really comfortable with that. He also mentioned something about not wanting to resent me being able to take off and do whatever I wanted during the weekends. He said when he first moved back last September, he felt resent because I would "take off" and leave him with the kids - said he felt like he was babysitting his own kids. I asked him "Do you want to see your kids as often as possible or not?". He said he did. I then said he should take me out of the equation and just focus on what was best for the kids.
He said he plans on doing his laundry here on the nights he comes - I can't complain about that because he also plans on paying the electric/gas bill at this point. He said he would continue to pay for all of the bills he has always been responsible for, which was a relief for me to hear.
So advice on his request for seeing the kids every weekend??? This arrangement seems to give him a bit more access to the house and a life of comfort (he also asked if I cared if he ate whatever food was in the house when he was here - I told him he could eat whatever he wanted). Not sure he will really see what it is like to live without the kids - he will see what it is like without me, certainly - but that's about it. I want my kids to see their dad - I don't want to keep them from him but yet I want him to feel the full effect of his choices. Thoughts?? Suggestions??
So there it is, folks. H is leaving. At this moment, I don't feel afraid. I'm sad - but also relieved in a way because I was getting tired of trying to keep him happy and orchestrate everything in order to save our marriage. I also was getting tired of the constant disrespect, misplaced anger/projection on his part and of the constant rejection.
I appreciate all of you sticking around and listening to how this story is unfolding.
M9+ T 11+ Me42 H44 2 kids under 5 IlYBNILWY -3/10 A discovered late 8/10 H moved out early 9/10 - back two weeks later "Taking a Break" - H moves out 1/2/10
What does he think you will be doing every weekend? What if you want to have friends over, or relatives spend the night....or take the kids out of town some weekend?
Even though it could be an opportunity in someways, it seems too confining. It would get very old very quickly. But is just depends on how you think you can live around that.....or with that.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi - I spoke with him more yesterday about the weekend situation. We decided on the weekends I choose not to go anywhere that he would get to spend a Saturday or Sunday with the kids here at home. I can keep myself busy for a day. He also suggested that while we should keep the visitation consistent that we could also "roll with it". He said it should be fine for me to be in the house when he is here - said it wouldn't be much different than it is now. I explained I felt he wouldn't get quality time with the kids because they generally are drawn to me when we are both here at home. He didn't seem to concerned about this. I came home from church yesterday - his last day here at home with the kids - only to find them upstairs watching TV and him downstairs watching football. I just don't get it.
We had planned to talk to the kids about him leaving early afternoon yesterday. He didn't initiate it until almost 5pm. The kids both reacted as expected - my son pretended not to be concerned and kept playing with his train. My daughter became upset, telling him she didn't want her daddy to leave. That she didn't want him to go move in with his friend (an acquaintance from work). We managed to get through it and then all had dinner. He read them a book, said prayers, tucked them in and then started gathering some of his things. He didn't take much - some bedding, towels, clothing. Most everything is still in his drawers and closet. I was doing laundry right before he left and he accused me of getting into his luggage in his trunk because his kit was not in the luggage but on the floor of the trunk (had left it from his trip to the bowl game). I didn't even know what to say and was really quite annoyed. I know I have snooped in the past - I guess that gives him a right to be suspicious. But he has continued to blame me for things I have not done and have not said - I mean really stupid things - like throwing away his car insurance card. And now going through his dirty clothing in his luggage. Based upon my reaction, he said "Well - I must have taken it out myself at some point". I just nodded and went about my business. He continued to reiterate throughout the day that we were just taking a break. I would continue to agree when he said this. He also was affectionate at times during the day. And we hugged when he left. He will be back tonight to get the kids to bed (as per our Monday/Wednesday schedule).
On New Year's Eve - I prayed to God to remove my anger and my blaming nature. To allow me to have forgiveness in my heart, knowing full well that God would take care of the rest. I felt peace when I awoke on the 1st. I went to church yesterday and the sermon was so pertinent to our situation - it was about the Prodigal son and how God has given us free choice - that we can make our own decisions but must also reap the results of those decisions, good or bad. God, in whatever way we understand Him, is always calling us back to Him. When he stray, it pains Him. When we return, He rejoices and throws a party. And so again - I felt even more of myself releasing control of this situation and putting it in the hands of God after this sermon.
Kids had some problems last night - they just weren't able to comprehend that daddy wasn't going to be here in the morning when they woke up. My D continued to say that she wanted her daddy - that she wanted two people in the house while she slept - that she didn't want daddy to live somewhere else. I comforted her, told her I understood and told her I felt the same way but that we were all safe and that both she and her brother were loved by mommy and daddy. My S said "We have to get a new daddy now - someone who will stay with us". I reflected back to him but did tell him he only had one daddy and that daddy would come to see he and his sister a lot. I finally calmed them down and they slept mostly peacefully the rest of the night.
I cried last night - but it was for my children and their confusion. The decisions being made by H, in my opinion, are unnecessary and will cause our children great pain. But you know what - I still have hope. In my quiet moments, I hear a voice telling me to stay the course - to take advantage of this "break" and to not be afraid anymore.
M9+ T 11+ Me42 H44 2 kids under 5 IlYBNILWY -3/10 A discovered late 8/10 H moved out early 9/10 - back two weeks later "Taking a Break" - H moves out 1/2/10
I feel for you so much. I am sorry that you have to go through this, but do listen to the voice in your head, God is talking to you. I myself wonder if it would be better for me to let H go. I told him I was not for trial S, for me its all or none, as I felt that a trial S was cake eating, allowing him to make our M into an open one. However, getting through each and every day is terrible, such a pain. Good luck with the LRT. Looks like manysitches here have been turned around by that, and its easier to do when H is out of the house.
Me:49 H:45 D:12 M:14 T:18 Bomb: 6/26/10 EA: 9/3/10, fizzled out slowly, now ??? 11/5/11 Retrouvaille Finally piecing.... Its peaceful at last, but we got a looong way to go
FEAR has you in it grips.....Everything you are doing is done out of fear......understandable.....your world has been rocked and is crumbling around you. My world came tumbling down too.
It was the best thing that ever happened to me EVER.
Did you ever build a sandcastle at the beach and the tide started to come in and started to wash some of the castle away???
What would you do??? You would work on it a little harder and a little faster...right? Maybe just maybe you could build it high enough or big enough or fast enough
to keep it from crumbling down and washing away. It is wasted time and energy right??? Your better off starting over and moving back away from the waves and the water and start over.
Your H is the Waves of Water tearing down a marriage you are desperately trying to save. Why???
Do you want the old marriage back? One that could be washed away just as soon as the next wave comes in.....
You get the picture......you know what, you got to cry and morn your marriage. I mean you got to cry a lot and hurt a lot....I did. I do not know another way to get through it, I tried to GAL and failed, I tried again and failed, and again and failed, and over and over and over.........
until I was tired........and DONE.
There is no doubt in my mind that the techniques in Michelle's book work, however you have to be ready to really implement them or be one heck of an actress in the process.
I have seen my own STBXW start to respond now that I have really dropped the rope.....for real. I can tell you that it took me over a year to get to the place where I could really let go.
I hope it does not take you that long......nor anyone else, however you really do have to turn away from your marriage completely and before there is any hope of saving it, or should I say any hope of building a new one.
Sooooo, I am an action oriented person and I always wanted someone to tell me what to do when I came here.....sorta like a playbook.....after all that is what DR is.....right????
Only thing is we got to warm up, get all the gear on the field, got to practice before we can "run any plays" from the playbook.....
Make sense????
Soooo, first thing you need to do is conquer that fear..... What are you afraid of.....
write all the things down......it might look like this.... H won't come back might lose the house H will come back but leave again kids won't have a father kids will turn out scarred for life I will never find anyone else
and so on......write all that down and put the biggest fear up top.
The other thing you need to do is STOP BEING around your H. Told you this one long ago. Also, let him get his own food, and you do not owe him anything because he is paying for the bills that support you and the kids. You are actually making him feel better about his decision to carry on this affair by pandering to him.........
I am not telling you to be rude, by no means.
But a simple statement....."Husband, I am not comfortable with you in the house at all, while you are engaged in this ongoing affair, please do not come back until it is over."
This will be the hardest thing to do, but it is what has to be done. I know the thought here is that you will be keeping the kids from seeing their father.......
NOT TRUE
Their father is keeping himself from seeing them. If he wants to see them end the affair and then you guys can talk about it.
Let me tell you about my situation......I kicked my wife out of the house.....literally....now at the time I was in a fit of rage and afterwards I regretted it.......
BUT
It was the best thing I could have done........the only problem is that I would let her come back to the house to and spend time in the house with the kids while I left......even her counselor supported this........I was a fool. She continued to have other multiple affairs while living out of the house in her rented room while telling me and the kids that we were working on the marriage.
She was going to have those affairs no matter what......this I realized later......just like your H is going to continue to see his XW......nothing will stop it.
However, he has to give up his life of comfort to carry on this ongoing affair. It is not your fault because you will not be disrespected in your own house!!!!!
Again, I am not advocating being rude to him, in fact this is the most loving thing you can do. Until you completely pull back from him he will not be ready nor you to implement any of the techniques in MWD's book. Trust me.
Until he sees the price of his affair he will continue to sample the merchandise.......My wife continued to see her #1OM for almost a year until the relationship finally fell apart in August of this year.....at that point it was too late. She could not face the utter shame of trying to return to the marriage she gave up for what was ultimately a doomed relationship from the beginning.
If I had shown her the true cost and the reality of her choices earlier in my situation she might have been able to bring herself to face her actions.......now over a year later she feels there has been too much water under the bridge.....and guess what?????
In our sitch there has been. My example to you here is that your non action now will prolong his doomed relationship, and trust me.....it is doomed. His XW knows it is, blow the fantasy away and there will be hope.
Once he is out of the house you will find a peace and calm like you have not had in a while. This will not come for a while and in the beginning the peace and calm will just come for visits but eventually what will happen is that peace and calm will come to stay permanently in you.
Barb, Remember the sandcastle above....you have to rebuild your sandcastle......YOUR sandcastle....not your husbands our even yours together. That is the problem.....we lose ourselves in our marriages and forget what it is like to be an individual again. The individual you were before would not stand for this.........where did she go?????
Ask yourself this......
If you had just started dating your husband say just a couple of weeks into the beginning of a relationship and he was dating his XW on the side just to see if it would work, would you continue to go out with him?
Easy answer....right????
What is the difference now????
You bought a house together???? You have 2 beautiful kids???? What else, you have been together for 11 years????
What else?????? Debt??, cars???
None of those things, even the kids are worth staying in a relationship where one person is doing what he is continuing to do........it is however worth starting over with him.....
if he stops.
Big "IF"......huh?????
and you have no control over it.
How long are you going to wait before you start to turn from the storm he has created around himself???
It gets better, I promise.
Cheers
Formerly "missherlove"
Me49 XW49 M17 T19 S16 D20
Expose yourself to your deepest fear; after that, fear has no power, and the fear of freedom shrinks and vanishes. You are free.
Thanks. So much to digest. But again - so spot on. The only thing I really am not sure about is not letting him see the kids. I just don't see how I can do that - probably because my mom pulled the same thing with me and my brother in regards to my dad and it ended very badly. I also don't want them going to his rented room to spend time with him. So I really have no other recourse - and legally, as well. Can I really, legally, keep him from seeing his kids.
This is his biggest fear. Losing his children. But it's so ironic because if he remains on this course, that is exactly what will happen and it will be his doing. His second wife (yes - I am his third) had three children - and when he initiated the divorce with her, she kept the kids away from him. He ended up hating her and being heartbroken.
I know you think this is all about fear for me - definitely a lot of it is. But if you could have seen the "scene" here this evening before he left and how I ultimately responded, you would see that I am no longer afraid of losing him. Both kids freaking out, my D saying "But daddy is my daddy - he can't be away and be my daddy" , me trying to calm them down, him having to come back into their room and doing a really crappy job of reassuring them - getting angry at them and telling them he didn't want to talk about it anymore and that they needed to go to bed. But, indeed, as per your list, my greatest fear is scarring the kids for life because my family of origin divorce did just that to me. I vowed to never do to them what was done to me. As I watched H's reaction to the kids tonight, it hit me like a ton of bricks. His fog is getting thicker and thicker - not at all lifting. We talked briefly and I mentioned my concern for the kids. He blew it off and then the "alien" emerged. I chose not to engage it and told him to "leave, now". I also told him I didn't think this arrangement was the right one and that I would be speaking with the child psychologist this Wednesday to get a better idea of what is best for the kids. He walked out. I was sitting, reflecting, when I heard the door open again. He came to me, tears in his eyes, hugged me, kissed me on the head and said "I don't want to leave like this - I am so sorry".
And then he was gone. I breathed a huge sigh of relief to be rid of his toxic, selfish vibes. I cried - but not because I wanted him for me. I cried for my children and the unnecessary pain they will have to endure. I prayed - I told God I was done and that I no longer want this life or this man. I told God I was His faithful servant and would do what He asked of me but that I had reached my limit because the selfishness is now truly extending into the lives of my most precious gifts - my babies. I don't need to protect myself anymore. I need to gather the strength to protect them. I know I sound angry but in actuality, am not. Much like you felt once you got your W out of the house - I feel relieved.
I thank you for your truly amazing analogies. Missher - you help me make sense of things. I know you get where I am - you have been there and are now on the other side. I will chew a bit more on him not coming into the house but am not sure that is the way to go in this situation. That being said, continuing to allow him to come in and consume all of our natural resources like a locust can no longer be an option. We are separated. He no longer lives here. We are all out of cake.
I respect his need for space - his need for "taking a break". He is not hiding under the guise of taking this break in order to work on our marriage. He sees it as a way for him to try another life out, see where it goes and then come back if that life does not suit him. I also need this break from him. I don't plan to squander this precious time. And while I hope I don't completely outgrow him, I suspect that might be the case.
M9+ T 11+ Me42 H44 2 kids under 5 IlYBNILWY -3/10 A discovered late 8/10 H moved out early 9/10 - back two weeks later "Taking a Break" - H moves out 1/2/10
Do you want evidence that what you are doing is working?
Well here it is right here......
Originally Posted By: barbsing1
He walked out. I was sitting, reflecting, when I heard the door open again. He came to me, tears in his eyes, hugged me, kissed me on the head and said "I don't want to leave like this - I am so sorry".
And then he was gone.
For a moment and the moment came quickly he saw through the fog when he went out to the car, leaving his family. Let me translate what he said to you.
"I know what I am doing is wrong, but it feels good to me, I like what I am doing, right now I want it more than I want you and the kids. BUT, I am not ready to commit to that life, I am not ready to make a choice.....I don't want to leave like this because I am afraid that I will lose you and this life forever."
In that moment is when you need to turn away from him.....IT WILL BE THE MOST LOVING THING YOU CAN DO FOR YOUR HUSBAND EVER!!!!!!! IT WILL ALSO BE THE HARDEST THING FOR YOU TO DO....EVER.
I had the same experience with my STBXW in Oct. 09....I can remember it like yesterday......She was out of the house, and we were supposed to be working on the M, but unknown to me she was already 4 weeks into another affair with OM#2. I discovered him and her mountain of lies, and I did not react like I did when I discovered OM#1.....I just told her I did not want her in my life and the kids.....that was it. Let me tell you, in that moment she felt the entire weight of her choices....for 2 days there was no contact other than her asking to come over to the house to see the kids......I absolutely refused. By the end of the second day, I started to see my old W, the soft, kind one, the one I married.......and guess what????
I caved in completely like a house of cards.....I was nice to her and agreeable and was like whatever she needs......I was spineless.....I basically said to her "You can continue your behavior and We will be here waiting for you".
It is hard to see our spouses when they are weak but we have to be hard on them.....they are children in that moment. Yes they are suffering and we want to ease their pain by comforting them........that is absolutely the worst thing you can do.
The next time your H comes in the house crying, you need to calmly rebuke him and tell him, "I hate to see you suffer, but until you break it off with her, I can not comfort you. Please leave." and you turn and leave the room with an air of confidence and strength.........(you can fall apart after he leaves).
He has done this a couple of times from what I read.....guess what?????
It will happen again.
I am not sure what the solution is on visitation with the kids....if I were you I would leave and stay gone the while he is at the house. Furthermore I would tell him he has 2 weeks to make other arrangements to see the kids, this is your house and you should not have to leave in order for him to come in, you really don't want him there as long as he is with her.
You need to send the same message over and over and over again......he is a child right now......think about it....how many times do you have to tell a kid something before they actually listen.
This is right out of DR.......
"Your smallest consistent actions will be noticed most by your WAS"
The problem with almost all NEWBIES is they don't get the TIME factor involved with being consistent........
HERE IT IS AGAIN FOLKS..........
THIS STUFF TAKES TIME..........
YOU HAVE TO BE CONSISTENT OVER WEEKS AND MONTHS not just days...........
TRUST ME ON THIS. I would do something in DR and then I would start looking for my W to respond.
Does not work that way..........that is why you have to stay away from him.......detach from his effed up, batch!t crazy, fogged out, stupid a$$ behavior!!!!!!
STAY AWAY.....it is simple. Hard but Simple.
Originally Posted By: barbsing1
him having to come back into their room and doing a really crappy job of reassuring them - getting angry at them and telling them he didn't want to talk about it anymore and that they needed to go to bed. But, indeed, as per your list, my greatest fear is scarring the kids for life because my family of origin divorce did just that to me.
I vowed to never do to them what was done to me.
As I watched H's reaction to the kids tonight, it hit me like a ton of bricks.
I cried for my children and the unnecessary pain they will have to endure. I need to gather the strength to protect them.
First on the kid thing....you did not do this to them....HE DID. They don't need to know that but you are not responsible.
Second, you don't want this for them.....well be strong enough to do what has a possibility of working. You continue on the path you are on and they WILL have divorced parents.
Be strong for them, they are lucky to have you as their Mom. They will have hardships in life and this is going to be hard on them, no doubt. Trying to ease their pain or sheild them from the harsh reality of divorce is much like trying to save that sandcastle......
I love my children more than anything but I could only show them my love, I could not somehow prevent what was happening around them. The best thing you can do for your kids is take care of you. I will tell you that when I really started to let go of my W, it showed in me, I was happy....really happy. My kids noticed, my daughter tells me, "Dad, you're so happy"
it took a long TIME to get there. You will get there too.
Originally Posted By: barbsing1
I don't plan to squander this precious time. And while I hope I don't completely outgrow him, I suspect that might be the case.
On this note, cross that bridge when you come to it. If you worry about then you will never get there. This is about where I am right now, I have seen more from my STBXW in the last 30 to 45 days then I have seen in 18 months. I don't know why.....I don't care.....as I said in my own thread....my door is open to anyone, her included.
Don't worry about whether or not you will outgrow him, you have to stop "wanting" it in order to have a choice or a chance of having it.
If you outgrow him....really outgrow him....you won't care anyway because your life is going to be so full and happy without him. Doesn't mean that he can't join you but you will be happy no matter what.
That is what takes TIME..........
Have a great day!!!!!
Cheers
Formerly "missherlove"
Me49 XW49 M17 T19 S16 D20
Expose yourself to your deepest fear; after that, fear has no power, and the fear of freedom shrinks and vanishes. You are free.
H showed up at the kids' preschool yesterday morning - not his day to see them and he hasn't done this since the first day they started school. Kids were elated - I was not. Although I was cordial, saying good morning and wishing him a good day when we parted, I was obviously not pleased to see him. H is not handling the visitation thing very well out of the gate. It will be confusing to the kids - when he is not there tomorrow or next Tuesday, what does that leave them with? Our confusion shouldn't become theirs.
I am meeting with the child psychologist today to further discuss what is best for kids in regards to visitation.
I had no intention of contacting or speaking with H yesterday but then he texted me to tell me his grandmother is in the hospital. I am very close to her and so contact most of the day between H and I was unavoidable. He is coming to see the kids this afternoon/evening but I will be out of the house during that time. I will only have to see him when he comes and leaves.
M9+ T 11+ Me42 H44 2 kids under 5 IlYBNILWY -3/10 A discovered late 8/10 H moved out early 9/10 - back two weeks later "Taking a Break" - H moves out 1/2/10
