Confused. WAW doesn't know what she wants

[ninelives]

Hey DB's:

I wish we were all on as defensive backs instead of divorce busters but such is life. ( football reference) My WAW is now wondering if she did the right thing and is depressed and calls often. Let me explain my sitch.

Like most on this site, my w is going through something and has decided to pull the plug on our marriage. We have been married for almost 17 years and together for almost 19. We have two great kids that are really confused at this point as well.

Where to start. We have had a good relationship for many years and were the envy of our small town. People enjoyed being around our family and other married couples often commented that I was "the perfect husband". Believe me, I know that i was not but I thought I was a good husband.

Little did I know that my w was not happy in the marriage. About five years ago , I was changing a bedskirt in our bed and noticed that there were some documents between the matress.
I thought that it was some bonds we had purchased for the kids but on closer inspection it was a search for her ex boyfriend, that she dated from highschool. She previously told me they date about 3 years but turns out they dated off and on for about 5 years. I also found a notebook where she jotted things down that she married me too fast (two year courtship) and that she never really got over her ex. She also said she was not in love with me and wondered if she ever was. I was devasted and thought that the marriage was over there and then.

I confronted her on this and she insisted that she was going through some depression which she often did, and that her dad was ill with cancer and she was just journalling and that it meant nothing. We made love that night and it was incredible and emotional and i accepted what she said but it still hurt like hell. She also mentioned in the notes that she wished she never married me and would have liked to have seen how things would have been with her ex. She also wrote pros and cons about me and thought I was an excellent father , which i am and do many things for the kids. She also mentioned that I was kind and funny and that is what attracted her to me.

My shortcomings in all this is/was that I could not let go what she had written. I would not bring it up but if I was watching something on TV that talked about ex's or a song on the radio would trigger it for me and I would often get quiet.

She said she knew that i was thinking about that and that she didn't really mean it. So this went on for about 4 years but with less frequency. I would think about it from time to time but would rarely say anything. She said it was like walking on eggshells aroung the house. So that was the major problem.

Other contributing factors which i am ashamed to say were my very active libido. My wife is very attractive and I would basically want to have sex often with her although that we came to an agreement. I wanted to engage in at least three times per week but she said only once a week would be good for her. I did concur to her and we averaged about once per week but by the end of the week , i was getting restless. I wanted her so bad that it manifested itself to almost pacing like behaviour. Very unattractive i am sure to her and she later admitted to me that it was such a turn off. I just thought that I should be able to make love to my wife once a week without it being a big deal but I know now that was very wrong.
Women can only make love , real love, when they are emotionally ready. I should have done other things when that came around. Went for runs , exercised, whatevr to deal with it. I think I also should have gotten some help.

Other than that , I think I was a pretty good husband. Did losts of stuff around the house, cooked cleaned, did the other usual husband chores.

Just before Christmas she was getting very depressed again. She told me she was very unhappy about her mom and sister and the way they have always controlled her. They liver very close to my w and I. I told her not to worry and that Christmas was coming and did the usual holiday stuff. I also attributed much of what was going on with her with her usual depression. She did not blame me at all but put it on her family and that her dad died two years ago and that her dad was very controlling.

But right before Christmas, DEC 19th ( D-day) She gave me all the speeches. ILYBNILWY speech. Love you like a brother. She was drinking more and more and went out with girlfriends more frequently. Writing a novel so i will stop for now.

There is tonnes more to say but don't want to overwhelm readers.

[ninelives]

Ok let me continue. We stopped any type of intimacy and just went through the motions. I slept on the couch as it was obvious that she didn't want to be around me. She was angry almost all the time and was not very civil to me. Despite all this, she kept it together quite well for our mutual friends and insisted that there was nothing wrong with us.. just that she was depressed. She was a master at being upset at home but putting on a brave face to the outside worl. Academy Award was really warrented. She contiued to drink almost everyday except when she was working as nurse. Night shifts were horrible for her and we had to walk on eggshells when she got home.

She said for years that we didn't do anything as a family together and for that she is right to some degree. I coached my sons in hockey and soccer and was often busy coaching and she had her shift work. We did alot of boating together as a family as we live in a small island community and put in a pool last summer( which I busted my butt to put up from scratch) and we spent time together in the pool and she was very happy. She always was happy when I did a major project around the house and when she was buying things. She often complained that we don't go on trips anywhere meaningful like Disney world but for many years she worked part time and spent like full time and I felt we didn't have money to go on these trips. We were already in major credit card debt and I didn't want to go further in debt so I told her that we spent as much time as most families and way more time than others. Like I said , most of both our friends thought we were the perfect family and like to spend time at our place. We did go to Canada's wonderland which is like Disney but in Canada about 6 hours from our house. Also , when we went on these trips , we often stayed with my family as i am from SOuthern Ontario and she is from Northern Ontario where she is surrounded by her family. So when we went on these trips i got to see my family for a few days of the year and we also didn't spend more money on hotels which liked to do. I often told her she should have married a doctor or somebody rich.
Even though i make an above average salary for these parts, it seemed that she was never satisfied and she did get pretty much anything she wanted. We built a new house seven years ago altough I though our previous house was good and that we would have had it paid off by now but instead, we built a brand new house in which i put a lot of sweat equity into much of it.
I also had a job interview in 1999 to move to Southern Ontario and back to my hometown where she made lots of friends and seemed happy there. I had the job all but sewn up but she insisted that we stay put because her parents where getting older and that she wanted to be near them although she did not really like them and resented much of what they had done in her life.. (controlling) and still were up till her father's death two years ago. She would get so angry at times at her parents and say that we should have moved and i reminded her when she got that way that we could have moved back in 99 if she didn't ask me to forgo my dream job and move back to my hometown where my parents are only two hours away instead of 6 and a half hours away.
I will post more when i get time. There is so much more to this woeful tale.

[trytryagain]

9lives-

sorry you're here. are you and W still currently living in the same house? has she asked for a separation or D or anything since the ILYBNILWY speech? did the 2 of you ever seek MC together after you found the notebook and her writings??

what are you doing now? how much contact do you have, what goals have you set up for yourself, what 180s are you making - have you read the DR yet?

i'm sure you'll get lots more responses, hang in there.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

9lives,

It sounds like you have always pretty much just given your wife everything she's wanted, and you've created a bit of a Princess. That rarely builds long-term respect and love.

(I know -- I did the exact same thing).

Have you read "No More Mr. Nice Guy?" You might want to check it out. Another good one is "Hold Onto Your N.U.T.S."

Sorry, but I had to laugh about this:

Other contributing factors which i am ashamed to say were my very active libido. My wife is very attractive and I would basically want to have sex often with her although that we came to an agreement. I wanted to engage in at least three times per week but she said only once a week would be good for her. I did concur to her and we averaged about once per week ...

Nice compromise.

Puppy, who's more of a "squat, zone corner" than a "shutdown cover corner"

[ninelives]

Thanks for responding guys. Yeah the story gets convuluted as many of these do. We got through Christmas but barely and the kids S14 and S10 did not notice anything as I kept my crying to when I jogged or when they were asleep. I went to Church for the first time in years for Midnight Mass (around 6pm) and prayed with my SIL, BIL. MIL and my youngest son was there but oblivious to why I was there. Went home , had a few drinks with w and her family and then read the most boisterous Night before Christmas I ever read to the whole family. usually i read this to my boys as tradition. Everything was going OK , and we finished putting out the gifts for the boys as normal and we were both a bit tipsy and she turned to me and said, " I suppose you want your Christmas eve @#$^ now. Well in a way I did because i planned monts ago to do the gag from Saturday night live with Justin Timberlake ( Dick in a box) and I had the box ready and thought it would be funny. So I tried it , she thought it was hilarious and said it was too funny but did not laugh like usual. But we went through the charade of Ml but it was not good. That was the last time for us BTW. After so much passion over the years it bothers me that last time was so much without any type of love or emotion. I took the boys down southern ontario to give her space and she called us almost twice a day and seemed lonely but not really warm on the phone but warmer than ususal. She always seemed to miss me when I was away. We were gone for close to a week and when we came home for New Years Eve, she had to work in the morning but wanted to go out to one of our mutual friends. We did and had a good time and everybody thought we were normal. I sometimes am expected to be the entertainment with this group so I was up to my old antics and she laughed and we embraced a couple of times and when new years came along, she avoided the big kiss,but I waded through the crowd and gave her Three second or so make out new years kiss but it didn't feel right.

When we got home , she thought I was going to ask for sex but i was on the road for 7 hours in a snowstorm with the kids and it was frankly scary coming back and just wanted to sleep in my bed.

She freaked out that night anticipating a sexual advance as I climbed into bed but I simply stated i was tired and wanted to sleep although truthfully , i was hoping she would initiate but knew she wouldn't.

We had a pretty big argument that night and I did all the wron things. I wept, was drained. Asked her to try and get help and go to MC with me but she said it was too late and didn'n know how to try anymore. It was a long night and I barely slept and she didn't sleep much either.

There is more to relay in the lead up to the present but I will cut to the chase and then backtrack later.

She has asked for a legal separation and at one point even was sure divorce was what she wanted.

I went to IC first and then MC together but it was a real sham.
Our MC didn't seem really into it and my w also seemed like she was going through the motions.

We stayed together for about 2 months after that , me on the couch and her going on as if nothing wrong. Me working out like crazy and lost 35-40 pounds. She also lost about 25 and looks like she did when we first met. She is smoking hot.

I have done a 180 after doing all the wrong things and have gone dark on her. I am trying to get DB but live in a place without a bookstore. I went down south again for the March break with my boys to go skiing and visit my family , then to Niagara falls and had a blast with my boys. She called moved to her mothers which is only 6 houses down the road from our house and is not doing well there. She does not get along well with her mother who is quite a bit older than her. Her mom is in her 80's my w is 41 going to be 42 soon but looks like early 30's. I am 45 but also look like early 30's as we were blessed with good skin and no grey hairs but they are coming. I almost feel them.

She moved back home during the march break while we were gone with my permission since she does have her name on the mortgage for now. That is where she called every night from at about 8- 9pm and then again in the morning because she felt the boys did not miss her and that nobody loved her. She then started asking for me but I would try and be out jogging or doing something and when we did communicate i gave her short answers.

She felt that we were having a great time and was being left out and had a meltdown on the friday. We were going to my hometown to see friends and she called and i tried to get out the door but my oldest son said mom was crying and needed to talk to me.

She was really upset and told me repeatedly that she wanted to be dead. I said don't do that and tried to placate her but she was in despair and we talked for an hour. I asked her I she wanted us to come home and she said she didn't want to ruin our good time ( too late) but i could not in good consious go visit my friends when she was in that much pain. I asked if she wanted to try again after she said she ruined our marriage, and she wasn't sure but then said she didn't know how and I told her baby steps. Maybe we should plan that trip to Disney and then go from there and see if we could have a great time and have something to look forward to. She agreed. We drove the 7 hours home and when we got there, she was not there. She want to the hospital with her sister and was having a panick attack and her bp was through the roof. I will finish this tale later as I need to get some things done.

[sandi2]

So has she always run the show? If so, why did you let her?

[Puppy Dog Tails]

That is where she called every night from at about 8- 9pm and then again in the morning because she felt the boys did not miss her and that nobody loved her.

Yeah, I think they teach that line in the first semester of "English 101 for Princesses."

[futureunknown]

Yeah, I think they teach that line in the first semester of "English 101 for Princesses."

That's why I love hangin' here. Because it's so nice to know that others can perfectly describe my W, and apparently many others too!

[ninelives]

Hey :

i`ve got the Pdog and Sandi as well. Two legends on this forum as i have been reading posts for some time and i believe you two often offer sage advice.

Its often the case that when a story is being told from one point a view , it is skewed somewahat. so to anwer your questions Sandi, i don`t think that «I have let her run the show.
She has accused me of being controlling but i believe that she does believe that to some degree but I also believe that she is projecting some blame from her father on to me. He was very controlling and died two years ago and i believe she hasn`t been able to get closure from him and harbours resentment. Just call me sigmund.

I did my share of running the house and sometimes final decesions ultimately came through me. She would often ask me if she was Allowed to do something or another. i would quickly tell her not to use the term allowed as it made me sound like her father.

As for me actually being controlling, i stayed in a town that i didn`t want to for her because of her parents and i built a house i dindn`t think we needed because of her. She also was in charge of the finances , like did the bills and so on. She would often get overwhelmed with this and i offered to take them over but she would get angry and then say, what don`t you trust me. I let her contiue to keep the peace. This has literally cost us thousands of dollars in credit card debt but we always had made it to the end of the month. Money really isn`t that important but i do know now why she insisted on doing the bills. She simpley made a mess of them. I should have been more insisted on taking over and that is mistake i regret but i have learned that the past is untouchable. Learn from it but i can`t dwell on it. We are not in horrible shape but could have done more trips and done more if we were more dilligent.

I will contiue with this if anyone is still following along. When we got home from the march break and she finally came home from the hospital, there was no jubulation from her to see me but she made a big deal about the kids. i expected this and was glad that she was genuinely happy to see them. i half expected what was coming with us. She said that she spoke to soon and that she felt pressured to come back to the relationship and the crying contiued.
She apologized profusely for shortening our trip and felt bad for giving hope. As i expected this, i said something like ok, so what is it that you want. She said she didn`t know and that <
she was so confused and felt so depressed and alone and was resentful that we were having such a good time without her.

She wanted to come back home but not to work on the marriage but unitl the settlement was finished. I told her NO, no chance of that happening. Either she come back as my wife or she go back to her mothers. She said she wanted the weekend to think about it as she was supposed to work but could not go in. In fairness to her, she really could not go in to work in her condition, she was crying the entire weekend.

We slept in the same bed with our ten year old between us andfelt like old times a little. He is the sweetest boy and loved to come to our bed in the mornings and slip in between us and hold us both. I always impressed upon him the importance of family and he has really taken that to heart. HIs face was one of absolute bliss. I cant for the life of me not know how she cant`see that.

I absently massaged her back as i often did , half asleep and she was very receptive to it when 3 months ago she told me she could not stand me touching her. But she always enjoyed a goo massage. She told me she would recpricate when i was finished and she did but it didn`t feel right to me.

Later that days she told me that she could not try again at this point but not to close all doors. Earlier that month she told me to close the doors and through away the key. But she has softend and just wants to find her self and see if she can stand on her own and develop some self esteem. We have had that discussion ad naseum and that i don`t undertand her. Like she is the only person to ever suffer from self esteem issues.

I will continue again later.

Thanks for listening.

[MrBond]

After reading your sitch, it sounded like you "gave" your W all her physical needs but not emotional. I put the "gave" in parentheses because you really didn't give her anything. She's your W and you provided for her. It's the same way that she "gave" you sex.

It sounds a little like you're not understanding her emotionally. You sound like you want to "get" her, but it seems like you're on a different level than her.

You mention that she suffers from depression but was that actually diagnosed or is that just what you assumed? Maybe over time she felt like she couldn't talk to you without you seeming critical of her or judgemental. You might not have thought you were doing that, but she might have picked it up.

The fact that you mentioned that she made it sound like you were her father, shows that maybe she got the impression you looked down on her. She saw you as an authority figure and not a husband.

"She was really upset and told me repeatedly that she wanted to be dead. I said don't do that and tried to placate her"

See she doesn't want someone to "placate" her. She wants someone who "understands" her or can "listen" to her. I know you think you are doing that, but maybe it's not in a way that she means. Sometimes just listening and not offering any advice is good enough.