WAW and 4 kids

[tryingtilDorR]

My story goes back a couple of years, but the real hard times have been in the last 8 months after my wife got involved in an EA (at least anyway). She was in a typical WAW situation leading up to that. Early 40s, extremely focused on fitness and also had cosmetic surgery, kids entering high school, and a marriage where we had drifted apart with our own interests/lives etc etc. However, no severe problems like drugs, infidelity, abuse, etc. just busy lives and lack of focus on our R. Her complains about the M had intensified over the past few years and I didn’t do much to address it (neither did she actually).



Mar 08 – W talks about how unhappy she is with M and had been complaining for the past year or two actually

Jun 08 – 4-6 MC sessions no progress – W seemed disinterested and talked about separating

Nov 08 – W starts EA and begins to distance herself from M/R quickly. EA was primarily conducted on phone (~2 hours of conversations per day with OM)

Jan 09-Mar 09 – I knew she was somehow involved with someone else but didn't really have proof, but convinced her to go to Retrouvaille, but since she was involved with OM in the background it didn’t have an impact on her I began my own IC. Due to my IC and Retrouvaille I underwent somewhat of a transformation in my attitude about M/R and many other things (all for the better)

Mar 09 – I ‘prove’ EA after several months of W denials, W ‘ends’ EA but stays ‘just for kids’

Jun 09 – I catch her and prove EA is on again to a lesser extent, after several lies/denials from W during May/June;

I give her ultimatum – end R with OM forever or leave and she chose to ‘leave’ by moving to another room in the house, and seems committed to leaving at some point down the road. I gave her the same choice the first time and then she had decided to end it (and I verified that she did to some extent).

All along she has stated that she is going to stay in the marriage/home 'for the kids'. She treats me like an acquaintance for the most part, not even a friend and has sine the EA started last November. I did confirm that the EA had at least paused to some extent in March/April when I gave her the first ultimatum, but quickly realized that the OM (he is single) was still texting her, etc. I then told him to stop and he went and complained to W, which I think brought them into heavier contact again.


During this whole time I have read every blog and book I can find on this situation, especially dealing with a W in MLC. I also now realize I have made many of the common mistakes, including begging her to re-dedicate herself to the M, losing my temper, being suspicious and jealous, and just about every other thing you can do wrong! Now I have done my best to detatch and start taking care of myself. I really stepped up my workouts and am now looking better than I have in probably 10 years, took up cycling with a group of great guys, got involved in volunteer work more aggressively which had previously been a distraction in the M but now is more theraputic for me, trying to spend time with kids and be a good Dad.

Given the way she is acting I realize that no self-respecting individual would put up with it for long, but I try to keep my cool for the sake of my kids and I am obviously heartbroken and would give anything to save our M. While we are still under the same roof I figure there is always some hope, but deciding how to act and what to do/not to do on a day-to-day basis is so exhausting! I have been trying the techniques from DR and also Marriage Fitness.

The tragedy is that once things got this bad I woke up and recognized all of the things I did to contribute to our M issues and was truly motivated to make changes and I did, but got the textbook reaction of it's 'too late' and she almost seemed angry about my change in attitude and behavior.

When I caught her in the EA again recently I was humiliated and angry, as opposed to how I felt the first time, which was panicky and distraught.


I am wondering if I miscalculated here with the latest ultimatum, where I told her she really needed to leave if she wouldn't cut off ALL contact with OM? I am realizing that my ultimatum isn't controlling her behavior, it is just giving her the excuse she needs to do what she has been struggling to do, which is leave. She tells me 'you told me to leave'. I correct her and say I told her to quit talking to OM, but that if she couldn't she needed to leave, but she always leaves out that detail!

It HAS taught me that I can't control her behavior really, so it is another reason to detatch. Why agonize and negotiate something you have no control over?

Now I am faced with the situation of being separated in my own house. I am leaving her alone for the most part and just watching what happens now.

I'd love to get some feedback from the great people I see on this forum.

Thanks!
_______________________________
ME: 43
W: 43
S: 17
D: 15
S: 10
S: 12
M: 19 Years
T: 25 Years
EA discovered and ‘ended’ 3/6/09, after ‘end it or leave’ ultimatum
EA re-discovered 6/4/09 and W moved to spare room after 2nd ‘end it or leave’ ultimatum

[In Limbo]

Trying,

You'll find lots of folks on here to give you great feedback from their own experiences. I'm sort of a newbie myself, but wanted to post to give you some encouragement. I also have a spouse involved in EA and we're still living in the same house. I experienced the same tragedy of getting my "wake up call" when I discovered the EA. I get the "it's too late" along with anger (why are you changing now when you wouldn't change for so many years). It's frustrating when you're making changes and they are unwilling to make any changes or work on the R. I also tried to demand contact with OW stop, but came to the same realization you have - we can't control that and saying it has to stop when the MLC/WAS doesn't want to work on the R almost makes it like forbidden fruit and pushes them that way. My suggestion is not to try to control it and not to even talk about OM if possible. I have a hard time with that, but it's the DB advice consistently given.

You seem to have suffered the "busy life" syndrome and to me that makes detachment harder because it's counterintuitive. If the problem is not being emotionally attached, how can you fix it by becoming detached? But detaching will help you and that's really what this is all about - you. If W sees changes and decides to work on R, then wonderful. If not, you need to be the best you that you can for your future.

Hang in there! Keep posting - it's nice to know we're not alone in the madness.

[tryingtilDorR]

Thanks InLimbo - I agree that it is comforting to see that I am not alone. The amazing thing is that I see many common situations accross these forums - it is like my WAW is cut out of a common mold that everyone else is also dealing with.

I think the key variable, however, is whether or not they are involved in OP. I see a lot of other posts from people whose spouse is exhibiting mostly the same behavior as everyone else but with no obvious influence of OP. In many of those cases I suspect there is an OP but the LBS just doesn't know yet.

I was actually relieved to know that there was an OP, or at least have it confirmed, since it explained so many of my WAW's behaviors and I wasn't grasping in the dark anymore and understood the full extent of our problems.

Your advice is spot on I am now realizing - give up on trying to control interaction with OM. This is what led me to monitor her and I am tired of being a policeman. It is hard on one level, but after all of the agonizing over it over the past six months I realize that it is a fruitless expenditure of energy, and I need to focus on more productive things.

I used to do several things, even after she moved into the other room which I realize are now counterproductive. I would follow her into the room and hug her goodnight - it is something we never did before the crisis even when we were in the same bed. I also was trying to force conversations by asking how her day was, etc. She has said that she wants to go back to how it was 'before' where we were ships passing in the night and otherwise acted like roomates to some extent. I told her that is not the type of relationship I want anymore and have made all of these changes to remedy that, but she just isn't interested (due in large part to OM I believe).

When I size up my situation I see these positive things:

a) she is still in the house
b) she knows her relationship with OM is wrong, even if it is EA only and not PA, although she will try to protest this during arguments (saying that EA does not equal 'affair' or being unfaithful) but deep down she knows
c) her family is very unhappy with her and have been very supportive of me/kids in this whole situation - MIL has said she will 'disown' her if she leaves her family
d) her closes friends know that OM is not right for her and that she is acting kind of crazy
e) she agonizes over not living with kids full time - this is probably the most significant factor keeping her with us now


Outside of all that, my focus is continually turning more towards myself and away from her. It has taken many months and has been a gradual process. I have had the help of my IC as well in this process. My latest personal daily marching orders are as follows:

a) make sure I do my workouts/training/etc to continue to stay in great shape and focus on my physical well being
b) pay attention to friends/aquaintances that want my attention
c) enjoy every second I am around my children and try to make their summer as enjoyable as possible
d) don't ask any questions about OM or make snide comments about it - rise above the issue
e) show her the person she fell in love with years ago and be confident/happy around her - I have tried this for a while but it was always interlaced with OM and R discussions/issues
f) refrain from R talks - our most recent was 2 weeks ago when I talked about a visit I had with a lawyer and how we could negotiate a reasonable settlement that would allow me to keep our house - it was done primarily to show her that I was letting go and starting to think about the end game if it got there and I think she balked a little. Since then I haven't brought it up and neither has she. At the time I told her D was the LAST thing I would ever want, but given where she is at I might as well face reality I told her. She showed more emotion during this conversation than I have seen in many months.

g) remember the vows I made about my marriage before God and the commitment to my children - to remind myself of this I have started wearing my original wedding ring again. After many years of not wearing a ring at all (W used to complain) I had switched to another one several years back because original didn't fit, but now it does again so I am wearing it as a reminder of what I am fighting for.

All I can do every day is think about these points and see where things go.
Like others who post here I am finding this to be the most challenging thing I have had to do in my life - the self-control and discipline required are a heavy burden.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

You sound like you're handling it with courage and grace, however. My respect!

Puppy

[In Limbo]

Puppy - I have been following your posts and have a question for you. Would you be willing to go over to my thread and provide some feedback?

InLimbo's Latest Thread

Trying - Sorry for the hijack.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

In Limbo,

I replied on your thread, and to be honest with you, I'd thought about posting to you previously, as I HAVE followed your sitch a LITTLE, just based on your Title (I'm loathe to cake-eaters, ). But the MLC forum is a rough crowd, who generally doesn't believe in exposure and who thinks you have to "let these things play out," often for YEARS.

Personally, I could never do that, nor could I advocate someone ELSE trying to do it. It's emotionally crushing.

Anyway, I'll take my lumps based on what I posted to you there -- I'm a big boy -- but I just wanted to give you that background. Those who have been thru the wringer of adultery (as I have), and who post on the Infidelity forum, are much more accepting of exposure as a valid DBing technique.

Puppy

[In Limbo]

Trying and Puppy,

Thanks again for posting on my thread. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I can tell you that I don't think I could or should keep this up for years. I understand the concept of MLC being a sickness and taking time, but I also believe that if we're meant to be together once MLC is over, it will happen without me sticking around for years. I have a real problem with how to enforce boundaries and prevent cake eating while still only showing PMA to H and avoiding R and OW talk, etc. (thus the title of the thread). I agree with Trying - it's exhausting just trying to figure out what to do/not do on a daily basis. I try to detach myself and it's such a challenge. I know in a lot of ways it's good that H is still in the house but when H is still physically affectionate (not just ML, but hugs, holding, etc.), it's almost harder than the cold distance of being separate physically because it's so confusing. Sorry, didn't mean to get back on my sitch.

Trying - you are doing great here. Keep it up and hang in there. Keep your focus on you and your kids. They really need you to be the sane one right now.

InLimbo

[tryingtilDorR]

Trying and Puppy,

I know in a lot of ways it's good that H is still in the house but when H is still physically affectionate (not just ML, but hugs, holding, etc.), it's almost harder than the cold distance of being separate physically because it's so confusing. Sorry, didn't mean to get back on my sitch.

InLimbo

This is a real interesting perspective and probably points out differneces bewteen men and women. Even though my W shows no affection towards me, I would welcome ANY physical intimacy even if she wasn't emotionally committed. I can see how most women would feel like you do in this situation, however.

I have resolved myself to sticking it out for 'years' if needed. I have a daughter who is a freshman in High School, as well as 3 sons, and I feel like any kind of separation would be tragic for them at these formative ages. I keep thinking about that every time I think things are rough. It would obviously be easier to live with this if there was no prospect of an OM, since I feel like in that case we would have a chance to work on M/R at some point. I had been hoping she would drop OM on her own but it hasn't totally happened, and I feel like we have reached a crisis/inflection point where she will either leave in the next couple of months, or we will slip into a limbo state for a while until she 'wakes up'.

[sandi2]

Hi "tryingtilDorR",

I read some posts you had over on other theads. I am somewhat concerned about you. Hope you return to your thread soon.

Sandi

[sandi2]

Hi,

I am a little late, but welcome to the community here at the DB board. I wanted to respond to your posts and I'll warn you that in the beginning to newcomers, I usually write a long one, so hope you don't mind. I was an almost WAW after many years of M. Like you and your W, we had not had any abuse or anything like that, but we had had a lot of other problems. Both of our children had health problems and that caused a lot of stress for us. However, the biggest problem "I" had in my M was the fact that my H would not communicate with me. I mean the man would not talk! So for years I tried to get him to open up his "soul" to me the way I did him.....but no soap. I had grown up in a very close family (and he did also) but my parents talked about everything to each other and I thought that was what M was suppose to be.

My H and I also had sexual problems. I tried to approach him with our personal problems....it always led back to the fact he didn't think we had enough sex. Of course he blamed me for the lack of sex, so I prayed and prayed that God would help me be the kind of W my H needed. So.....at my "sexual peak", and just as I thought that God was finally answering my prayers and everything would just be grand.......my H suddenly, without one word of explanation.....stopped having sex with me. He never even tried. He had developed a terrible habit of falling asleep while watching TV. He had grown up to be a "night owl" and I would go to bed before him. Whenever he followed me to bed.....I knew the reason...."sex". I had resented that for years and tried to discuss it, but to no avail. Anyway, I could not understand why he suddenly stopped just as I was getting in the mood (so to speak). Then other things came along to add stress and finally I went into a pretty serious depression due to my own health problems and I started playing games on line.......and then, to make a very long story shorter....I met OM on line and an EA developed. You would have to know me to know that I was truly the last person you would have thought to ever do that! You may imagine your Sunday School teacher or grandmother or anybody before me! So, I found out that I was not above falling into a pit that I would never have thought I would have dreamed about, and it was an experience that I do not want to ever have again. I was blessed b/c I got help here on this board, and my H forgave me, and we have come a long, long way. That is why I have tried to "pay it forward" in doing what I can to try to help others.

Whee......I hadn't intended to go into all of that, but wanted you to know a little bit of where I come from. I hope I can help you figure out more about your own W and what is happening to her. I am going to go back to copy and paste some things you have said and make responses. I will start another reply since I took up so much space in this one.

Sandi