Don't Let Them Eat Cake

[In Limbo]

As I look back over old posts, I think I've done best when I've set specific goals and celebrated successes, no matter how small. So I'm going to get back on track with that. One success I had yesterday that may seem tiny was that even though I knew that H had lunch with OW yesterday (he walked out of the house carrying something he had framed for her), I didn't say anything about it. He was probably anticipating me saying something and I felt like it was a test, a chance for a small 180.

Oddly, we've been to at least 4 different MC's over the years and they've all (in his eyes) been failures - yet the one consistency is us - so maybe we're failing at MC rather than the MCs not being good.

I do plan to continue with IC and really wish H would do the same. But that's his decision.

H said he was attending MC to try to figure out if he wanted to work on M. Then he wanted to attend to get help on how to "transition" and how to help the kids through this. He will not say the D word but says there is no hope for M between us. Hasn't filed, hasn't seen a lawyer, wants to get through DUI proceedings first. Everyone around me who knows thinks I'm crazy and should go ahead and just file. But I don't want to be the one that ends it, the one that initiates D. So for now I wait in limbo. I have read enough posts on here to understand that this limbo time can be used to my advantage to get myself on track for me and the boys and if it has a positive impact on R with H that's a bonus. That's easy to say and makes so much sense but can be a challenge to implement.

So, I'll set goals on exercise (min. 5 times/wk), contact with H (don't initiate unless involves kids or emergency), GAL (at least 2 activities per week for me) and PMA (go 5 days without crying, laugh out loud daily, go 2 days without saying anything negative to H). I also want to set a goal of at least one 180/day but don't know if that's too aggressive. I'll try it today and see how it goes. Even little 180s could count, just need to get focused on changing my behaviors.

Thanks for the support!

[In Limbo]

Puppy -

If you made it over here - many thanks! I believe that I read on one of your posts that you believe the spouse of the OP should know what's going on. For some time I've been wrestling with that issue and would like to know do you feel that way for EA or just PA? Why do you feel that way and how would you let them know?

Little background, my H is in EA and denies it's anything more than really good friends. OW is 26, was sexually abused as a child and very insecure. I discovered EA by reading emails between them back in March. He complimented her alot and said he loved her over and over, wondered "what if" they'd met single, etc. But there were no sexual references. In the last one, she told him that they could only be friends if it was paternal. Since then he has said they are friends, the relationship is not inappropriate and he will not give her up as a friend just because I think it's EA. They have continued to text 50+ times/day, meet for lunch, he's given her a $150 bracelet, they keep R secret from coworkers, etc. H says her H knows all this. I do not believe it is PA but do see this as EA. I believe H does have "more than friend" feelings for her, but am not sure she reciprocates or maybe is so naive and immature that she just sees it as friends. So maybe he's downplayed those feelings even to her? But even if she's not reciprocating, if he's pursuing her isn't that still EA? I'm thinking her H needs to know what's going on. But I'm getting alot of advice that telling him would conflict with DB, only make things worse, be controlling, etc. So I'm interested in hearing the point of view from someone who does think the spouse of OP should know. I do realize that I am not detached and still way too focused on H. I'm working on that. I'm not sure that I'd really even ever contact OW or her H, but am interested to hear what you think.

Would appreciate feedback.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Her husband deserves to know. It would be morally wrong to keep the information from him (if you think about it, 3 out of the 4 people involved know, and are able to make decisions based upon that, EXCEPT FOR HIM). How fair is that?

He should also be told because his wife is likely LYING to him about it (if she's even told him anything at all), AND, your husband's girlfriend is almost CERTAINLY lying when she says her husband knows all about it. Either that, or your husband is lying to you.

Keeping track of all these lies??

Thirdly, it just plain WORKS. Most people are not willing to risk their marriages and their families (do they have kids?? good jobs???) when push comes to shove, and the exposure often ends the affair very quickly.

Affairs thrive on secrecy. Shine the light of day upon it, and the roaches usually start scurrying.

Based just on what you've told me (I haven't followed your sitch), this sounds like a very deep EA on its way to becoming a PA. I hate to say it, but if it were up to your HUSBAND, it would probably be a PA already -- it sounds like she's resisted him so far (but likes the attention). Eventually, she will break down and give in, and give him at LEAST enough physical "attention" (I'm trying to be polite here) to keep him coming back and giving her more emotional validation.

What does your GUT tell you?

Puppy

[tryingtilDorR]

Puppy is right - follow your gut and don't be afraid to expose this. I took it a step further - I not only caught my W in her EA after her claiming just 'friends', I also told her mother and sister and her closest friends,whom she had also been lying to about it. I kind of went too far there, but in the end the cockroaches scurrying reference is true. If I had only kept it bewteen her and I she probably wouldn't have done much except lie some more about it going forward. I imagine in most cases exposure and keeping it between spouses is the right course of action.

In the end she drifted back to the EA, but if I hadn't exposed it when I did and at least slowed it down it would have evolved to a PA very quickly.

I actually kind of blew up and our kids overheard one of the discussions, so she even had to admit to S17 and D15 that she had a 'friendship' that went too far and dad was really mad, etc etc. Her IC told her to explain it this way.

While I am sad that my kids were exposed to the sordid mess, at least it made her consider her behavior in the light of the real world in front of the people she loves (like my in-laws and some of our closest friends).

[In Limbo]

Puppy and Trying - Thank you so much for coming over!!

My gut tells me that it is not PA. My gut also says that OW has boundary issues and wants to think they are just friends, but knows it's not exactly right but isn't doing anything to stop it. My gut says that H is deluding himself and deep down knows it's more than that for him or he wants it to be. My gut tells me her H needs to know that his W is being pursued.

Fear is what's keeping me from exposing this. I know that it's just one more thing that H will never forgive me for. If she really thinks it's just friends and I expose this, H will be embarassed (as he should be) and ticked about losing her as a friend. But if he's leaving me anyway, what do I really have to lose?

I don't know how to reach her S face to face (short of showing up at his house which would be stalker-ish). I can reach him through Facebook. I was considering an email sent to both her and her H, maybe even copy my H. That way everyone gets the same message. Or is it better to try to reach just OPs H or what? How did you expose it to OPs spouse?

Thanks again for the feedback.

[mdoodles]

my opinion, i would never put anything in writing...

over the phone?

[Puppy Dog Tails]

I sent a letter to his parents (he lived with his parents -- at age 29! -- and wasn't married). I told them if they wanted to talk, I was available, but that if I didn't hear back from them and they wanted their privacy, that I would respect that. But I told them the truth about what was going on.

I actually WOULD recommend putting it in writing, so that it doesn't get "spun" into something that it wasn't. Make it truthful and respectful -- AND DON'T EMBELLISH. "Just the facts." It's up to them to do with it what they wish.

I know you're afraid, but really -- what can he do to you that he's not already doing? My experience is that they get over it very quickly.

Puppy

[peacetoday]

One never knows what doing or not doing a certain thing will bring upon an effect for others?
I did nothing in my situation--basically got
me D--now it could have worked out that way anyway..one never knows

Can you discuss this with IC to get ideas

brainstorm possible outcomes
1) OW breaks it off
2) OW leaves H
3) OW and H break it off and in secret start agan
4) H gets pissed at you...moves
5) OWH and H have it out
there are probably more

have you gone over to infielity
maybe there are some folks there who have tried this approach
who can advise you
I have read about 1 or 2 people here who have done things to break up A and were susessful at R M
both people did strange ways not honest ways
like one was tapping into the email with some fake IDs as OW was overseas and saying things to break it off where H did not get responses
the other was W son told OW to back off
as he was older and troubled and OW got scared
both people said it worked
I have read other posts where Both spouses knew and it did not matter b/c 2 lovers were together
it will be interesting toi see what happens
Pray on it
think it though
ask for help
peace