"No, but it's not enjoyable. What are we doing? To our marriage, our family, finances, futures and why are we doing this? This is supposed to be "better"? "
All I can say is that the divorce is what I want. I do feel like this is "better" for me. We talked about my feelings, how I feel about you, and why I wanted a divorce in counseling. Those things haven't changed and I don't anticipate them changing. "Doing the work" I do not think will change my underlying feelings. Maybe if we had "done the work" 1-2-3 years ago, things would be different. You can't compare us to people like V because we let our relationship go for a very long time. That it took me wanting a divorce to "wake you up" is not all on me because I did try to wake you up for years before it came to that, if you want to talk about "being accountable for your own actions."
"Indeed, how are they doing? Yes, things were going easy at first but the novelty is wearing off and reality is starting to sink in. Both of them are acting out."
The kids will be great and get through this in great shape, and I won't let you guilt me about the effects of the divorce being "on me" simply because you are trying to put it on me. Their "acting out" is very mild, and with appropriate parenting and counseling, I have every confidence they will be healthy, confident people.
"I'm not misleading them either way but I don't believe divorce is the best thing for the family and I won't say it is. If you believe this situation is not temporary then you tell them. You need to be accountable for your actions."
When you tell them you might move back in (or you might not) you are misleading them. They hear only that you might move back in. Their points of reference are short term. This is unfair to them to give them false hopes. I will tell them that the situation is not temporary. We will not be "sitting down" to have a talk to tell them about the divorce again. We did that once... both of the kids used the word divorce during that conversation, and there is no need to do that again.
"How about I tell them I like my house, I love it when we are together, but really want to be a family again?"
First of all, this would be involving the kids and blaming everything on me, which is completely unfair without considering everything of the last few years that led to this. Second, this implies that we aren't a "family" now. We are, just not a traditional family. If you choose not to think of us a "family" then that is on you. If you choose to "blame" me for the divorce as a way to "make me accountable for my actions" then you are doing so at the detriment of your children's mental health. It is not for them to know whose "fault" it is or who made the "final decision." I would never discuss with them the details of how/why the divorce came up over the last few years in my opinion, and just the same, I think it is inappropriate and unhealthy for them for you to cast blame on me for the "going through" with the divorce.
"But it seems you want to get along as a family but not be a family. You want me in your life but you don't. You want it both ways. How is this going to work when we are divorced?"
I don't want to be married to you. I want you in my life as my kids' dad, and if possible someday, a friend. If you don't want to adapt to a broader definition of family than a "nuclear family of 4" then that is your decision and "you need to be accountable for your own actions." Its on you. There are plenty of families who are blended/divorced/remarried and perfectly healthy. I might note that H is one of them. Her parents divorced at 12 and she essentially has no negative memories of the experience because her parents did not play it out in front of her. She even had step-parent come into play as a teen, and she turned out to be a pretty damn good person. You should ask her about it. Its up to the parents to keep it away from the kids to "keep it positive." If you choose to think of that as "lying" when you put the best light on the situation, then that is also your choice and you can live with the consequences of how that effects the kids.
"you need to be sure that the pain of doing the work is greater than the pain of living alone, being a single parent, not having a father and husband in your life, and not having someone to grow old with."
I am always "accountable for my own actions" and happy to be. I do not believe I need to sacrifice my own happiness for the sake of keeping the marriage together. I also do not think I need to compromise what I want out of fear that I don't have a husband or "someone to grow old with." I don't think of living alone, being a single parent, or not having a husband right now as painful. I'm sorry that you view this as me not wanting to 'do the work' but I DID work on this for years. That you didn't see that when it mattered is not my fault, and I won't let you blame this on me now and I won't let you act like the divorce is happening because I didn't work on it. I did and that process changed how I feel about you. I can't take it back. Not to mention, that I told you that I believe there has always been something missing in my marriage for me. I can't predict the future, but its how I feel now, and how I have felt for a long time.
I am sorry that this is hurtful to you, and I know its not what you want.
---
The tone of her email is that if I don't play along with her plan then it's my fault the kids suffer. We did no work together in the few years leading up to this; I was fighting depression and just trying to hold it together. I don't want to respond to her right now.
"My actions are my only true belongings. I cannot escape the consequences of my actions. My actions are the ground upon which I stand." Thich Nhat Hanh
The tone of her email is that if I don't play along with her plan then it's my fault the kids suffer. We did no work together in the few years leading up to this; I was fighting depression and just trying to hold it together. I don't want to respond to her right now.
YEP. So hopefully you are realising this isn't all your issues. Time to practice some self-care and manage your energy. You can handle it. Cheers
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
She thinks divorce is just going to be the best thing in the world..the kids are going to be great, we're still going to be friends, she's going to be happy...on and on. There's just no winning with Ms. I'm Always Right esq.
What can I say? I tried. I'm taking my toys and going home.
(OrangeDog thinks he will be better off in life without someone always telling him he's wrong. DB was worth something.)
"My actions are my only true belongings. I cannot escape the consequences of my actions. My actions are the ground upon which I stand." Thich Nhat Hanh
She thinks divorce is just going to be the best thing in the world..the kids are going to be great, we're still going to be friends, she's going to be happy...on and on. There's just no winning with Ms. I'm Always Right esq.
OD, We can't very well call Mrs OD out about mind-reading if you are going to do it as well. You are justifiably upset just re-read what you wrote and listen to it like someone else said it.
It's not about winning, implies you have expectations. It's about doing your best.
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
"She thinks" - Ok guilty. Rewrite as, "She strongly implies in this series of emails that divorce is..."
"There's just no winning"...Yeah, I guess I'm guilty on that count too if I apply the expectations to the situation.
However, the statement applies to the overall relationship too. I feel in the later years I could never satisfy her. I was always wrong and never good enough. I know...I'm using those words "always" and "never" but it really felt that way. It made one depressed OrangeDog.
I don't need this or want this.
"My actions are my only true belongings. I cannot escape the consequences of my actions. My actions are the ground upon which I stand." Thich Nhat Hanh
Hi OrangeDog: I saw your post on SmileysPerson's thread and thought I would come over to your thread and learn more about what you've been going through and sharing...
I'm glad you've got Coach here already - he's got the kind of calm perspective a lot of us need when we're hit with the worst of our own emotions...
I hope you don't mind, but I thought I would copy and past what you wrote on SP's thread:
Quote:
My W is one of those people who was always right. I was always wrong and never good enough. I've spent the past three years trying to dig myself out of depression only to get hit with the bomb (she admitted she was waiting till I could handle it). I'm probably stronger now then I've been in the past years but I don't think she was healthy for me. I'm sorry I don';t have a point here but maybe I should'nt work on it. Maybe I should find someone who better works with me. Comments?
So...reading what you wrote above and taking it with what you wrote in your post about her making you feel like you were always wrong and never good enough...my inclination would be to look for what, in your/your past/your family of origin, conditioned you for this type of relationship. It's not that I think there's much use to digging into the past - I'm much too sold on solution-based therapy for that - but I do think that something about our past contributes to the patterns we repeat into the present - particularly if we find ourselves with a partner that seems to use our most sensitive vulnerabilities against us...
BUT....here's a big thing that jumped out at me...you wrote..."maybe I should find someone who works better with me" - and that sent me spinning...primarily because I have come to agree whole-heartedly with the idea that we can never be in a happy relationship - and cannot make another person happy - until we are complete in ourselves. In other words, and I know this is bordering on truisms, we can't expect to have a fulfilling relationship if we feel incomplete - it just doesn't happen. I once said it here before...that line, "you complete me" must be one of the worst things ever said in film...it's such a horrible fiction - and such a wrong way to think about love (and marriage).
I never would have said this just a year ago, but I am now convinced that we can never be happy with another person until we are able to be wholly at ease with ourselves...not that we don't need other people - the very design of our bodies suggests a predisposition for more than a casual interaction - and a need for physical contact - but we have to be able to enjoy the moments we have to ourselves when on our own, so that when we find another person, we do not burden them with our expectations - or with any of the responsibility for making us happy. It just does not work to put our happiness into the hands of another person - but when we are fulfilled on our own, we get to enjoy the tremendous kind of happiness that comes from giving - true giving - without wanting/needing anything in return. It's astonishing how powerful that form of love feels...but for some of us...like me...it took annihilating what had brought me to my point of crisis...and that was the strange opportunity presented to me by my STBX's dropping of that bomb...
