Your point = clear. You are asking - which is it? You forget to wear the rings or the bit about shocking folks?
Here is what I read in her email: I feel responsible and accountable to the folks around me whom I know are vigilant of us...I'm still having difficulty making moves for MYSELF b/c I'm tied to what others will think and feel...I don't want to let anyone down ~~~ again.
She is carrying a burden. Heavier b/c of her prior choices but really, that's all of us, isn't it. I wonder what difference it would make if she were loved through that instead of having to salute the bullsh!t flag.
Me45 H46 T25 M22 S21 & 19 D13 Separated and filed 8/08 Moved home 11/08
Your point = clear. You are asking - which is it? You forget to wear the rings or the bit about shocking folks?
Just putting into my words what I think your issue with the rings is. In other words, which one is it - forgetting to wear the rings or something else?
Me45 H46 T25 M22 S21 & 19 D13 Separated and filed 8/08 Moved home 11/08
Three options here, which one will work best for Mrs Pups and PDT.
1 - I think you are full of bullch&t, and I am calling you on it.
2- I don't think you are being honest with me. Tell me the truth.
3- I want to know your true feelings, help me understand about the rings.
You want to make this win-win.
It's hard to pick up your tone here. I hear you sounding kinda fed up. The hard part is keeping boundaries in place while at the same time opening your heart and mind. You can handle it. Cheers ps You are on our prayer list.
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
I've been reading along with your sit, and I want to say that you and your family remain in my prayers. I don't think that I can say anything to help, as I see that you are getting a lot of great advice here. I will say that so much of what you've posted reminds me so much of my W (prior to our reconciliation) and myself up to this day. Especially that post you wrote about disclosing your own sins to your W; that reminded me so much of myself! But I think in their eyes (and my W has even said this), we just come accross as unapproachable and maybe even self-righteous. I don't think we mean to be that way, but that's what comes accross. Your W had a full blown affair, and she knows that was very wrong, so she probably can't draw any comparison between that and your viewing porn. Anyhow, what I'm learning is that I need to love my W unconditionally and covenantly; for me this means that my love for her is not based on what she does/does not do, nor is it based on her righteousness. Remember, Christ loved us even when we were His enemies. I can tell that you are very angry with your W (rightfully so), but this anger and resentment can't be helpful to your marriage. You can't see her as an adulterous, narcissistic, immature person, and still claim to love her. Try hard (as someone else already said) to look at the things you do love about her, and see her as a human. Try to just love your W unconditionally. I don't think this is easy, and God knows I struggle with it myself, but it is what we are called to do. You are an amazing guy (who by the way has nothing to be embarrased about!) and I know that you have poured your blood and sweat into your marriage, which is why it is so obvious to all of us how much you want this work. Stop keeping a scoreboard, and just start simply loving her. Her willingness to go to IC is huge! She is admitting that she has a problem, so now it's up to you to consistently love her through her struggles. No more quid pro quo. Man, I know this is very difficult and painful, but look to the cross for inspiration. And when you fall short, remember God's grace is sufficient. I will keep you in my daily prayers.
My wife has set up her first IC appt. for this Friday, and was motivated enough to do so that she asked if I could pick up the boys from school that day so that she could take this FIRST available appt.
Let me ask this question, in light of much of the advice above:
What is the best way for me to convey this new sense of forgiveness and compassion . . . with words or with some kind of action? AOSs? Notes? Should I be moving more TOWARD her, or is that "pressuring/pursuing" and to be avoided?
Even if I concede much of the above, I'm at a loss as to the best way to CONVEY it. Because I feel like I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't as far as making any attempt to close the "distance" gap between us. If I smother her with words or even Acts of Service, she will see it as "pressure" and "expectations," and if I DON'T, she will see me as pulling away and not loving her.
Waxing philosophical here, but hope you find something of use:
I think you should be mindful of your past behaviors which haven't worked... but ultimately you want to be able to flow with any new behaviors. I know most people short circuit themselves by falling into old patterns. I also know how hard it is to develop a new habit when you aren't being rewarded properly.
I know one thing in MWD's book was talking about how one spouse assumed the M was dead because their spouse refused to go to counseling. Different people have different ideas about how things should work... and ultimately we see the benefits of certain things very clearly because we are coming from a place of desperation and we've found our answer. That being said - the other person isn't coming from the same place, and the answer might not be as apparent as it is to us.
We have to be careful of the 'shoulds' and setting our spouses up to fail. That being said - it takes extreme patience and love to be able to hold on like you have, and I think you are doing well enough.
You know where I really felt you were successful though? When you just let go... enjoyed grilling, enjoyed your time out, and enjoyed life - whatever your W was doing. I think that attracted her back to try again... and I think you have to 'be' there mentally to know you are on the right track.
The last thing she wants to see is you coming on too strong. She may even be subconsciously testing you - but I see hope in that she seems to be trying very hard to communicate with you.
She is at least trying to understand your motivations... most women don't bother thinking you have any motivation outside of your pants.
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
My wife has set up her first IC appt. for this Friday, and was motivated enough to do so that she asked if I could pick up the boys from school that day so that she could take this FIRST available appt.
Puppy
excellent!!
M60 H52 D20 M14 yrs OW-old gf from 1986 bomb-5/18/08 H filed for D-9/10/08 D final 4/24/09 xH remarried (not OW) 2012
If I smother her with words or even Acts of Service, she will see it as "pressure" and "expectations," and if I DON'T, she will see me as pulling away and not loving her.
Ask her, "How can I help?" The do it lovingly.
One piece of advice I got here regarding the differences between men and women regarding help was this. If a woman is busy in the kitchen other women will jump up and help - friendly gesture, social, and appreciated. Man is out cooking on the grill and another man jumps in and starts helping it is a problem. Guy rules - implies he doesn't know how to grill, incompetent and you are in his space. Men and women each understand their own unwritten rules. Place a man and women together as partners and see how the unwritten rules booger things up. Reading when to jump into that space is a tough one for guys. You strike me as a black and white kinda guy. Your M will thrive when you explore the space between those colors. It's not gray either - it's tomato red, sunrise orange, mint green, hi-liter yellow, pansy purple, top of the mountain sky blue, and diamond clear.
It will be your actions that show her your love. Don't try to fix everything. No smothering, pressure or expectations let her see the space and make a move. Standing by and just being is also a action. Have some faith in just being there. Be available, patient and lovingly consistent in your actions. If you only knew how much you sound like me. Listen to what the women are counseling you to do. I know you can handle it. Cheers Coach
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
