There and Back, #10

[SallyM]

my other thoughts, btw, go to the fact that he is back wanting to introduce ow to the kids, have them spend weekends at her place instead of his moms.

guess I'll know soon enough. but good that i'm thinking of possibilites so I won't hopefully be quite as blindsided.

[LL44]

I db'd my kids this morning

LOL! Its ok to DB'ing them, heck, we are DB'ing our spouses, and they act like children. See, it works on 'real' kids too.

I never thought about the fact he might want talk about the kids and OW. I really think this talk is about you and him, not the kids. I don't know why, but I do. Whether its good or bad, we won't know. I am thinking of you.

[SallyM]

thanks lwb, I think you are right about it being about us. I have a lot of things floating around my mind right now...will keep making my list and hopefully will feel somewhat strong on saturday.

well, at least I will have saturday night/sunday morning to get myself back together, whatever it turns out to be.

hate this. I just freaking hate this. all of it.

breathing in, breathing out, breathing in, breathing out.

okay, off to start one of the 3 books I plan to tackle before saturday.

[SallyM]

lovely. just picked up s5 from school and was talking to a friend and apparently there has been a suspicious man that has been driving around our neighborhood. he sounds really creepy, my friend said a known pedophile has been hanging out in the woods nearby and there is talk that it is the same person.

fan-freaking-tastic.

on other news, I started "what could he be thinking" and its pretty interesting. a little pat, a bit too much stereotyping here and there, but I'm finding myself facinated all the same...some interesting stuff on the differences between how men and women think. one thing in particular hit me...when the bomb first hit, H told me he didn't think I even loved him anymore, and that I didn't respect him. I was floored...I love this man so much respect him so much, have told him so many many times, have shown it in so many ways. but reading this, I guess its like love languages in a way, it makes me realize he may not have seen what I was showing him.

really interesting. a couple of lightbulb moments for me. at the same time, it all just feels like I'm too late...too late for any of this. he's gone.

he called when he knew I would be out, btw, getting s5 from school. he won't be able to come by tonight after all. can't say that I'm bummed.

now here is a question. I feel like this week has been interesting, cracking that window and asking how he is doing and such. my question is, he has backed off so much, is this coming across as pursuing? I can't tell if its working or not, to tell the truth. he seemed pleased to hear me ask at first, definitely thrown off by it for sure, but again, it feels like either too little too late, or pursuing.

what do you all think?

[fearless]

Morgan,

I'm so sorry for all you have been through. I read through some of your latest posts after reading your request for opinions on the Surviving forum.

It's been 3 years since my XH and I first separated and over 2 years since I found the DB board during our second separation. As hard as it was for me going through this, I cannot imagine how difficult it is to do this with kids. I think that added anger and resentment for their pain makes it so much harder so the mothers and fathers here always amaze me.

Anyway, while I agree with others that you cannot know exactly what your H will talk about on Saturday, I also know from experience that there are times you just KNOW what the general subject will be. Two years ago my XH wrote me an e-mail on my birthday saying Happy Birthday and can we talk on the phone tomorrow. Everyone said that it couldn't possibly be to discuss a dissolution/divorce and that I shouldn't assume but I KNEW that that was exactly what it would be. He had avoided the subject for so long and tried to broach the subject by talking about the "limbo" we were in. When he would bring up the "limbo" comments, I think he was trying to get me to say that I was tired of the limbo (I had lost my job 2 weeks before our second separation so I was sleeping on the couch at a friend's house for 3 months)but I wouldn't say anything. As far as I was concerned limbo was better than going forward with the end of the marriage!

That said, if you do not want a divorce, then stand strong on Saturday and be clear to him that you don't want it and you want to be a family again. Let him know that you missed having him in the family pictures taken with the kids. Let him know that you understand his frustrations with his life over the past few years but that you believe your issues can be worked out. There's no need (and it won't work anyway) to try to convince him of that so don't get sucked into arguing these points with him. You just need to let him know how you feel. Obviously he can still file for divorce anyway but at least you've expressed yourself to him.

Try to listen to him without arguing which does NOT mean that you accept what he says as the truth either. This one is hard for a lot of people. You don't want to agree with things that you don't believe but you also don't want to argue because that can drive them further into their own beliefs.

FWIW, I would also let him know prior to or at least when he gets there that you will be leaving at xx time if you want to keep the conversation limited.

Oh and most importantly, even IF this discussion on Saturday is about his "decision" to file for divorce, that is not the end by any means. Of course it's not good news but people can still "decide" to file, tell you they are filing and then still hold off. Or even if they file, they don't follow through. So remember this to help you keep your cool no matter what the subject is on Saturday. It's just a conversation and your marriage will not end immediately no matter what he says or does!!! Just listen and be ready to vent on the boards if you need to.

when the bomb first hit, H told me he didn't think I even loved him anymore, and that I didn't respect him. I was floored...I love this man so much respect him so much, have told him so many many times, have shown it in so many ways.

This is interesting. My friend's XH (WAH but no affair) told me that he didn't think his wife loved and respected him which shocked me because I thought it was so obvious that she did.

My theory is that it really is not about what their spouses do or don't do to "make" them feel respected. It's more that they are feeling badly about themselves WITHIN and instead of recognizing that they project that feeling onto others. Somehow someone else is supposed to "make" them feel good about themselves.

Still your point about being aware and seeing if there is a way you can make it clear in his language how much you love and respect him (at least certain things about him!) is a good one.

And finally, have you read Frank Pittman's description of the different types of affairs? I put a link to his article below. My XH's was a "Romantic Affair" and Pittman describes the trigger for these types of affairs as a "turning point" which is "any situation in which they must face a lot of reality and grow up." For my XH we had just started trying to have a baby about 5 months before the affair began. With twins and a little one your H might be feeling like he's facing a lot of "reality" and needs to grow up.

http://www.georgejosephlmhc.com/articles/beyond-betrayal.html

[Ohio_Mark]

Morgan -

After being away for a while, I took some time to again dive deep into your situation (it took a while!). Regardless, I have a couple of observations I would like to share.

First, you have absolutely no idea what he's going to say on Saturday. It could be reconciliation talk. It could be another bomb. Regardless, I think that there is one thing you said, but you have forgotten:

... he's got an ego on him...but deep inside is insecure, so a weird combination.

Honey, he's as scared as you are, probably more so. He's got the he-man, I-got-two-women-who-want-sex-from-me, chest-thumpin' thing down. But scratch past this thin layer, underneath is frightened and insecure man. If he was so damned confident, he would have done whatever he needs to do by now. You know that. He does not know what to do. He has painted himself into a corner, and he believes that the only pathway out is through the courthouse.

So let's use his insecurity to your advantage. You are in control. You know what you want (a happy marriage and a faithful husband.....right?). You are a valuable and important part of his life right now. However, you presently see yourself as being a passive part of what is going on, and this is not the case. Take control of your own life. Damn it, your happiness does not depend on this man!!

You need to be strong. Maybe he will wake up, maybe he won't. But at the end of the day, you need to be able to tell yourself that you presented him the best possible Morgan that you could. You gave it your best shot, and being frightened, worried, and stressed is not the way to accomplish this.

On Saturday, he needs to see the "best" Morgan. Let him walk away from you when you are at your best. Make it painful for him. Be strong and confident.

At the end of the day, you will be happy. I know this because I know that you are capable of finding happiness whether or not he is in your life.

I hope that I was able to help.

[Dom R]

....
he asked me what was up, why was I looking like that. I asked like what...he said like I care. I told him I have always cared.

he's noticing you.
this is a positive thing.

then he had the nerve to say I had a look like what happened sunday would happen again. so apparently my "as if" look is the same as my "sexy" look? I didn't really know what to say, sat there looking like a lobotomy patient at him. he said it couldn't happen again. that it would just lead me down a path that wasn't good, that he was confused, couldn't figure me out. and that was that. he turned and left. I told him to drive safe tomorrow.

He's confused about what he is doing.
You remained calm, and the model of a caring person.

great job, Morgan!!

I think that's all I shall say

[SallyM]

fearless, thank you so much for coming over here. I really appreciate your words of wisdom...they help. the listening is going to be hard, but its my main goal...that and not falling apart, of course. not arguing, not justifying, or pointing out where he is wrong/off base. going to just try to hear him.

mark, yeah, lots going on. just when I get all comfortable with the status quo, bam, a shake up. okay, no more passive morgan. need to be in control morgan...or at least the strong morgan, the morgan who knows deep down that my happiness doesn't depend on him. I do know that, but wow, is facing life without him/divorce hard. I feel way too wrapped up in him. I wonder if I weren't a sahm if I would be different? this is the life we both wanted for me, for us and our family, but wow, am I sitting here on the bad part of the fence now. (soo cliche, btw).

interesting you saying he has painted himself into a corner. I was wondering about that. he has been very verbal about how he is in love with her, about I'm a good person, just not the one for him, etc, etc. I wonder if he ever did change his mind someday, would he have the courage to admit he was wrong? even coming back would mean admitting he had made a mistake...would he? I'm not saying he ever will do that, but that great big if....would he?

definitely hitting the gym hard the next few days, that always helps me feel good about myself and such. and will plan to look good...and wear waterproof mascara just in case. although hoping I can save any major breakdowns for when he is gone. will need to make sure I keep a check on my temper and any kneejerk reactions, too. I do not, as a rule, have a bad temper, but I'm starting to develop a low threshhold for idiocy. kneejerk reactions, well, that's a bit tougher for me. going to do the bottled water trick, going to breath, going to take breaks and head to the bathroom if necessary (care, hopefully no banging my head on the sink...ouch). its all I can do. and will have my exit strategy in place as well.

thanks, dom. hopefully I will stay as calm and do as good a job as I can this weekend. time will tell.

H called this afternoon to check on things and I swear I talked a mile a minute. I think I'm nervous. (gee, ya think?) it was an okay conversation overall, though, he was checking on the kids and making sure I got his message about not coming by tonight. I acted as if to beat the band. guessing, yeah, he's confused by me.

I know everyone says I don't know what he's going to say, btw, but my gut is usually not wrong...and my gut is loud and clear here. but time will tell. and like i've said, the sun will rise/set on sunday, even if he does go for the divorce, or similar.

[SallyM]

some more thoughts. I mentioned earlier that some of what he said to me when I first found out about the affair was that he didn't think I loved him/respected him. whether this was the way his male-brain works or whether is was mere justification for his actions doesn't matter...he had himself pretty well convinced of it by the time I found out.

the last few months, after finding db, I really backed off, to the point that the last couple of months I haven't even been asking how he is. I've been dark grey (as black as I can go with the kids), just nothing from me about him, and bare answers from me when he asked questions about me. all conversation was about the kids, with some basic business stuff thrown in from time to time.

I wonder now if that just reinforced in him the idea that I didn't care/didn't respect him?

or am I thinking too much here? he knows I love him...he knows i care. when he had his breakdown last month I said as much and he told me he knew. so maybe I'm just reaching here.

overthinking, yep, that's me.

[S_O_T_S]

I wonder now if that just reinforced in him the idea that I didn't care/didn't respect him?


No matter what you would have done there would have been some way for him to twist it around.

Too smothering. Too distant. Too needy. Etc. Etc. Etc.

You can figure out what he would say/have said to all those and more.

And then you would have written the library of stories seen here.