Hello everyone. I feel like I know many of you here as I have been loitering on this website for some time.
Let me toss my sitch out here for you to review so as I can get your input and feedback.....
My wife of 28 yrs abandoned the home and marriage without warning August 2008. The very next day she moved in with a "Friend" that we had know since the early 90s, he himself recently separated just a few month before.
The were signs something was wrong around April or May about the same time OP separated from his wife. We had been friends with this other couple where OP came from, & I felt sorry for him and felt no threat from him continuing to call our home. We used to be close as couples. However around April or May I noticed that he was calling too often talking to wife on phone. He set up "courtesy entertainment" events for groups - on a couple of occasions my wife went along with a group of other women. Set up a "cruise" event on a popular cruise line, she asked me if she could go. I declined telling her I felt uneasy about this anymore, that he was calling too often, appearing to get to close. Suddenly the phone calls stopped which I thought odd. I asked her if our relationship was o.k., she said yes it was that she loved me very much. "Everything is o.k. honey".
The day she left I had an argument with youngest daughter over her filthy unsanitary room. I gave her an ultimatum, either clean out of move out. The argument resulted in her threatening to call the police on me for "domestic violence", which I can assure everyone here there was none. I asked her to call them. They showed up, wife shows up from work to see what is going on, in anger I told daughter she must move out. Wife looks at me and said, "You don't do this to your kids, especially girls". And those were the last words she spoke to me as a couple. That evening while I was at work she packed some of her clothes and left me leaving a "dear john" note on the kitchen counter saying she would be gone for three days to "think".
The next day I called around asking if anyone knew her whereabouts. That evening I called OP to see if he knew. He did, saying she had called him him telling him she was leaving me, that she was very distraught.
Three days later she called me to tell me that I had to "let her go", which I did not fully understand at first. Then realized she wanted a divorce, that she had been unhappy for years. I resisted but of course had no choice agreeing to what she wanted. Unbeknown to me she moved out of state in with OP were she lived for several months. She drove the 180 mile round trip commuted to keep her job in town. In Nov OP helped her get a condo in our home town because youngest daughter was coming home from college for the fall break. Daughters had no idea she was living elsewhere, using the condo as a front and as needed whenever kids wanted to visit their mom, otherwise she was living with OP.
Wife over time introduced OP to daughters. OP separated not divorced until this month 05/09. So here we have my wife not even separated legally living with separated man. We became legally separated Nov 2009 after many threats from wife that I was dragging my feet (which I was). During November 08 eldest daughter began having marital difficulties herself due to stress of her mom & dad splitting up.
Feb 2009 wife announced she is moving permanently to NC to be with OP. Late Feb she left daughters and grandkids, who were now living with her, behind in condo to fend for themselves. Wife quit her job of 15 years, packed up her stuff and moved away. She is still living with OP but has no job living off the $100k+ from the home refi.
He mind has been on a single track, with only one thought in mind - Divorce. Of course I did all the wrong things contrary to what is in the DB & DR books, but finally found this site and the books and read both. Still it took me a bit of time to grasp the concepts. I got a telephone coach, recommending that I GAL and to go super dark. This only resulted in giving wife what she wants, complete severing of our relationship. She went dark herself the day after she left!
Since she left I have had face to face contact with her maybe 4 times for a total of 40-45 minutes. It is very strained and awkward when we meet. When we closed on the home refinance, I had to buy her out, things seemed to be going well and for the first time since she left said something positive about me, how I had accommodated her by meeting at a local library for the refi closing vs. our home, but I opened my big mouth and said that one day this would come back to haunt her. She blew up and walked away mad.
At this point in time the only thing left is appearing before the court TODAY for proceeding with an uncontested divorce.
My wife appears she is suffering from a MLC and has abandoned pretty much everything that mattered to her. She still has contact with daughters and visits, but infrequently. I went completely dark after the refi closing, and have not initiated any sort of comms with her. yesterday she TXTed me asking me to check my e-mail but no e-mail ever arrived. I did not respond. I am trying like heck to continue GAL, but the hurt from all this has been tough. The OP is a professional "life coach" and hypnotist well skilled in mind control. Who knows if this has had an effect on wife, probably has as he is an unsightly dude -big forehead, no chin, big ears.
I confronted OP twice on the phone over the past months. He believes he is doing wife a favor by removing her from an unhappy marriage. Though wife lied to cover up affair she recently revealed to her in-laws that, yes, there is someone else, but that it did not happen as I described but that they began dating after separation, and fell in love. Two months ago eldest daughter told her in-laws her mom is getting married. Talk about a WAW, MLC, rebound relationship all rolled into one!
I have been seeing a marriage counselor for one-one counseling since she left. She let off a flurry of "things" that were wrong with me, reasons for her leaving me. I addressed each one of them one by one. I continue with church and counseling, and am standing tall and taking my hits on this. Faith and hope is all I have left at this point, and my trust in God, that all will be o.k. with me. I have a fatal illness, liver cancer.
I am left with a huge debt, sick, and alone. We were less that 5 yrs from payoff on the home. It has been reset to 30 yrs under my name only.
Me: 54 Her: 47 Married 28 11/08/80 D26 Grndkids 7&1 D21 Emotionally gone 10,11, 12 yrs (?) Abandoned home/marriage: August 14, 2009 Living with OP August 15, 2009
Most folks here are dealing with the emotional chaos of marriages in turmoil and its effects on themselves and their children, families. Your liver cancer adds a whole new perspective.
Since you are ill, in most states you can request alimony to be determined when and if you need it. If you don't ask for it at the time of divorce you'll never get it.
You have the good things in life.. your children and grandchildren, your church, your faith. Kids, regardless of age, model after their parents. The way you behave, the manner in which you approach this, gives them direction. I kept saying, "You don't hold on to someone who doesn't want to be there.", later modifying it to "Don't hold onto to someone who doesn't cherish and treasure being here."
Relationships are a two way street. It sounds like your spouse jumped on a train and went her own way. Uncontested divorces are easier on the family, easier on the wallet and easier on the emotions. Drawn out divorces (especially when the other spouse is in a committed relationship with another partner) lead to greater bitterness, contention and all round ickiness.
One thing I had to learn was to ease up on my kids. I'd been the narc, the enforcer and gave ex the role of King Solomon, while I brought up the charges. In hindsight being so controlling of the kids was a reflection of having no control over my marriage. Life is better now that I approach them differently.. with respect rather than suspicion, listening rather than grilling, going with the flow rather than always my way.
We all find our way through this. Your proactive steps, counseling, church help you process this more effectively, using the tools around you.
I hope this day has sunshine, relief and prayer... that you find time to hug a grandchild, squeeze your daughter's shoulder, reflect on what you do have.
The intangibles far outweigh the stuff of life, any day.
May your debt become a mortgage (or even sell the house!), your sickness health, being alone opening to the circle of family and friends.
Guy, you certainly hit the trifecta there. These are the times that try mens' souls, the Revolutionary said, and he was right. In the Army we used to have these fire-and-movement exercises, and the longer they went on the more complex they became. The lesson was always the same -- fire on the 25-meter target first, because that's the guy who will kill you. Old Ivan out there at 300 meters? He's probably just as bad a shot as you -- wait for him to get closer.
It seems to me in reading your sitch that your health is your 25-meter target. Your finances are your 50-meter target. WAW and WAW's new man (who won't last, b.t.w.) -- that's out there beyond 300 meters. Ignore Mr. Rebound and his "life coach" skills -- there's nothing you can do about him right now.
Square your health away; square your finances away. Those are the tasks that will do the most for you and your children right now, it seems to me. Once you've got a stable platform you can start thinking about the targets off in the distance.
You've got a community of faith right there, waiting to help you. Let them. Get that rock -- that foundation -- for you and the children -- the Home. Deal with the rest later.
Had my day in court 05/27. I arrived to find WAW with our eldest daughter sitting next to her. She was going tobe used as a witness for the platintiff - WAW!!
The session began, I pointed out errors in the divorce papers which lawyer had over looked. My DOB was incorrect, WAW home address listed was incorrect (she is hiding her living with OP). This floored WAW attorney as judge was glaring at him for this. I could not bring myself to ask witness (daughter) to state WAW's current address, force her to reveal WAW's true living arrangement. Instead I made a statement to the court, in effect saying I had done everything humanly possible to save my marriage and famly,that I valued integrity, honesty, abd believed in the sanctity of a person's oath. That there were no irreconciable difference between WAW and me since we never had an sort of relationship discussion, counseling, etc. and if we had we would not be here today. She had simply just left. I went on to say that as an example to the children, grandkids, my wife, my inlaws, and my parents that I was standing tall and taking the high road, and remaining free of feelings of vengeance, being vindictive. That for better or worse, in sickness or in health, till death do us part - I would never back down from that oath. I told the judge that I could look at him straight in the eye and honestly tell him and anyone else that I tried everything humanly possible to save our marriage, that we are here now is because there is another person in our relationship.
By this time WAW was visibly uncomfortable, her lawyer fidgeting probably afraid I would force having WAW reveal address she shares with OP in NC, opening up grounds for a lawsuit under Criminal Conversation or Alienation of affection statutes. I had no further comments. The judge made a very nice short statement verbally agreeing with all I said, lauding my demeanor. The entire courtroom went quite as all eyes then turned to WAW and her lawyer for a response. There was dead silence as nothing was said. Judge then declared us divorced, and we were excused.
On the way out I had a few minutes to talk to WAW, now my ex since judge had just dissolved our marriage. Asking her why she had gone so dark, pitch black, for so long (very little contact) she responded she was not coming back that I had to get used to it, that she did not want to give me any hope. She again repeated that though she recognizes changes in me, that she wants me to go find someone else to "take care of you". She never stopped walking as she headed for her car.
I did ask to explain how exactly she changed. She never answered. Changes I do see in her are complete indifference to me, only recalling, seeing, and searching for negative things to say about me, to justify what she has done. When I asked her why she had not given me a chance to correct anything she did not like in me she answered, "you've had 28 years worth of chances". I told her only two people want this divorce, she and the OP, and she barked back, "you only need one person to want it in Virginia" and walk away, and with that our 2 min conversation ended. The day in court ended and I felt elated afterwards. Felt like a ton of bricks was removed from my back....
In all in the last 10-months I've had face-face contact with her only four times, with maybe 10 minutes total of face to face contact. 40-min total time conversation over this same period. That's not alot of time to make any impression on her. All e-mails or TXT messages go unanswered. Going dark has proven ineffective on her since that is what she is doing herself.
No divorced there is not pressure to save the marriage since it is gone. I remained committed to somehow someway winning her heart back. She was in love with me once, I am going to win her back.
I have been agonizing over bringing Criminal COnversation or Alienantion of Affection charges against OP for being a central figure in the breakup of our marriage. Doing so will anger my ex, something I really don't want to do, but the lots of cash souds appealing.
Me: 54 Her: 47 Married 28 11/08/80 D26 Grndkids 7&1 D21 Emotionally gone 10,11, 12 yrs (?) Abandoned home/marriage: August 14, 2009 Living with OP August 15, 2009
This is Guy time. My divorce was finalized in mid-January, something that even as it was happening, I couldn't believe was real. I still believe in the core of what we shared. However, ex has gone overboard convincing me that I do not want him in my life. My life had been based on his and the kids. Helloo.. new life, Gypsy style.
I had more trouble after the divorce. Why? Because I no longer had the divorce to focus on. Change is difficult. It's upsetting that one person can single handedly change a relationship, family dynamics. Like me, your former spouse is in a committed relationship and wants nothing to do with their ex spouse. It's odd how many people are in the same boat we're now clambering on.
It takes two for a marriage to deteriorate. Things changed for me when I realized our marriage broke long ago. That what I needed for it to be repaired, he wouldn't do or didn't know how to. He sought solutions that worked for him, until they didn't work anymore. You can't blame a car for breaking down when you don't do the oil changes.
The only one responsible for their personal happiness is the face they see in the mirror. What do you see in the morning?
Here's my decision making guide:
If it feels absolutely right, the answer is yes. If it feels wrong, the answer is no. If I can't make a decision or keep waffling, the answer is no.
You have a lot on your plate. Ask yourself.. what brings you joy, makes you a better person? What is something you've always been interested in? Do it. Try.
VBGuy: That was a demonstration of Extreme Mojo, my man -- I take my hat off to you.
A couple reactions:
"you've had 28 years worth of chances" == yeah, yeah, yeah. She's obviously checked the script out of the WAS Library of Meaningless Rationalizations.
That's not alot of time to make any impression on her. == at the end of the day you're only going to make impressions on people who want to be impressed (I don't mean that in the "wow, I'm impressed" way).
Think about it -- you're walking down the street, you don't pay attention to what percentage of people you pass? They're not making impressions on you. Now you pass by some guy who's got his pants on his head, spinning a pinwheel and singing "loopty-loopty-ay" -- that makes an impression!
So don't assume you're not making an impression just because she doesn't act as if you're making an impression -- from her POV, to acknowedge YOU is to undermine HER. And none of us likes to do that.
I have been agonizing over bringing...charges against OP ... the lots of cash sounds appealing. == cost/benefit analysis time, Guy. "Lots of cash" always "sounds appealing" to people filing suit. But people don't always win, do they? And when people get sued, what do they do? Counter-sue.
Cost factors to consider: Legal fees; time; stress (with associated costs to health); stress on two young-adult daughters and grandchildren (they're going to know; OP's attorney's going to depose them); time lost from what Gypsy correctly calls "Guy Time" (every day you spend in court is a day you don't spend...what? fishing, bowling, watching the Super Bowl, playing with grands......); even further alienation of xW (and how is that good for D's?).
Benefit factors to consider: Money -- if you win AND if you can collect. Revenge. OP takes a high, hard one (if you win). Satisfaction of knowing you were "right."
Well you already know you did the Right Thing. Living well is the best revenge. And the other two are probabilistic -- they only happen IF YOU WIN.
And winning can take years. Assume you win in the first-round. XW and OP appeal. Then appeal takes umpty-ump time. They win. Now you not only lose your winnings from Round 1, you pay up for Round 2.
And, not to put too fine a point on it, and forgive me for saying so, but xW, knowing your health situation, can easily assume she can run the clock out by having her attorney do all the delaying tactics that attorneys do.
Put it to you this way -- my good friend (even though he was an air force weenie) went the route you're thinking of. He started down the route in 2002. And the fat lady hasn't sung yet. Okay -- that's 7 years.
Do you really want to start a war of attrition like that?
I remained committed to somehow someway winning her heart back. She was in love with me once, I am going to win her back.
Excellent Mojo. As a guy who likes words, and for myself, I've sort of decided this "win" concept is problematic. Wives aren't prizes. I like "earn." Because, among other things, "earn" suggests YOU want the outcome, too. Which you may find, much to your surprise, you don't want once the shock wears off and you start to adjust to the New Life of GuyinVB!
Gypsy's decision-making guide is top-notch:
Quote:
Here's my decision making guide:
If it feels absolutely right, the answer is yes. If it feels wrong, the answer is no. If I can't make a decision or keep waffling, the answer is no.
Right now it seems to me that you could use some stability and certainty in your life. Build that foundation. 25-meter target. Then revisit some of these issues. Bet you'll be awfully surprised by the answers you get when you do.
Supremely awesome Mojo in court, man! Walk tall, my brother.
