Need advice: wife of 10 years wants out (3)

[PeterB]

PB, serious question. What are you trying to save here?

I am trying to save our marriage for the sake of my autistic son. I know that is not the right reason, but I can't seem to look past that. However, my resolve has been steadily diminishing, and lately, I have noticed a sense of indifference to her overtures (like makeup cooking and cuddling). I have also started giving some thought to the impact on him of a D, a few years down the line if not now.

[PeterB]

You know, there’s millions of incredible women out there who can say “I was wrong” rather than gaslighting and emotionally abusing their husband.

Sigh, yes. I felt sad when you pointed out the emotional abuse here. But thanks for the honest feedback.

You seem to reiterate with pride how you force yourself to ignore her behaviour. You might think that’s attractive, but to her, it’s not. It just makes her despise you more.

I would like to believe that I am not ignoring her off-the-rail behavior. I feel what has happened is that during the 2022 phase of DB, I had consciously not reacted to her outbursts and that behavior has been baked in now. It looks like you are advising that is not the right behavior. An angry reaction would be impossible. That is what I used to do pre-BD, and I am over that now. I also cannot get sucked into an argument with her - that is exactly what she wants, and she has always been a pro at sucking me into a nasty fight.

If she says “I will note it down if you make me mad”, perhaps you could suggest that will help her when she finally decides to talk about her anger issues with a therapist rather than blaming you.

Or perhaps respond with “That will mean we have log of all the times you gave me incorrect driving directions but you were unable to admit your mistake.”

It looks like you are suggesting a different kind of reaction. Actually, I've changed the nature of my reactions lately:

- Recently, when she said she would note down this episode, I said that's great; please do that and discuss it with your IC.
- When she exaggerates a problem, I tell her to note this instance down and maintain a log. "That will give you some much-needed numbers so that you can base your decision to stay with me on numbers rather than imagination."
- Today, when she tried to pick a fight over something trivial (she usually blames her behavior on "PTSD" from her decade-long pre-BD marriage to me) - I asked her in jest why we were buying a big box of expensive chocolates for someone who does not eat chocolates, she blew up. After waiting for her to finish, I told her firmly that I would not hold back from asking harmless questions or giving harmless opinions. "If you are triggered so badly by simple things like this, perhaps it is time for you to take a break from me and figure out whether you really want to stay with me".
- In one instance, I reminded her calmly that, unlike just after BD, I will not stop her from leaving should she decide to do that again.
- I've told her that her getting angry will not impact me much nor change me. Instead, it will harm her.

There’s a very fine line between an unaffected, calm man - and being a doormat.

Thanks for the reality check. I will keep this in mind. Will responding in certain ways or enforcing boundaries by leaving the scene help?

[PeterB]

You might think that’s attractive, but to her, it’s not. It just makes her despise you more.

This one statement should be burned into your brain. Do lots of research into this subject. Change your behavior.

I am processing it. Why will it make her despise me more?

Another option is to use humor and exaggeration.

"Perfect! I will make sure to buy you a box of pens so you can keep track of everything!"

Elevate yourself so high that you can see the humor in everything. Stay in your frame, not hers.

Great advice. I feel I have not been able to use humor with her. I tend to use humor with everyone except her and my parents. Maybe it has something to do with closeness. Once, when I used humor, she accused me of mocking her. Not sure if I didn't say it right or if she just didn't get it. Using humor with her will be a good 180 for me and a great self-improvement goal.

[Boat14]

This is a tough read. Relationships are supposed to be fun, exciting and mutually beneficial for both involved. It shouldn’t be about logging the other person’s perceived faults so you can share it with your therapist. Not all marriages are salvageable as it takes two people to make it work.

[DnJ]

Good Morning Peter

She gets mad at me frequently for the most trivial things and in bizarre ways. For example, I am driving, and she asks me to take a turn, and it turns out it's incorrect, so I tell her that was the wrong turn. She goes ballistic and accuses me of calling her a liar, "You know you are being extremely disrespectful." She regularly threatens me that she will note down whenever "I make her mad" and then revisit it later, which will undoubtedly lead to divorce. She still refuses to see a different IC.

You seem to reiterate with pride how you force yourself to ignore her behaviour.

There’s a very fine line between an unaffected, calm man - and being a doormat.

W is baiting you into conflict. Don’t step into the trap.

Be a calm and unaffected man. That is different than simply ignoring her behaviour.

Hurt people, hurt people. Realize W is hurt. And she will react, lash out, in bizarre ways to trivial stuff.

A few comments for the above example:

You are driving. You are in control of, and responsible for the operation of the vehicle. When W tells, gives, suggests, directions you decide your course of action. If you know which way to go, as in her instruction is a wrong turn, don’t turn. Follow your route. If your not sure, and do turn as suggested, and it turn out incorrect - no need to point that out! Just get back on the right path and continue. Fighting begets fighting.

Hmmm, that seems to ring true further than confines of a vehicle.

W writing down when you make her mad is pretty telling of how petty she is being and how hard she is trying to find fault and cause for an argument. Keep clear for that target.

By the way, you do not “make” her mad. You are not that powerful. No one is. No one can control someone else’s emotions. Influence, certainly. Like how beautiful music can reach in and touch the soul. However, control? Nope. So, at most, you are stirring/influencing her angry pent up emotions to surface. Maybe even triggering them. Although, it sounds like her feelings are bubbling just below the surface most times.

You can, and do, control you. Just drive, and be calm. No defending nor explaining how she was wrong. You simple cannot, and will not, win or get through. You could fight as the day is long trying to tell her the sky is blue, and she’d still tell you the sky is red. Let it go.

Remember, calm and unaffected man. Not ignoring. If you remain silent and W brings up that was a wrong turn, simply agree. She’s knows who suggested what. “Yep, made a wrong turn. No big deal, we’re back on track.”

She regularly belittles me, and I recognize it but do not react.

People will treat you the way you let them. Which leads to placing boundaries on disrespectful behaviours.

Good for not reacting. However, do you act?

Will responding in certain ways or enforcing boundaries by leaving the scene help?

Yes.

Regularly belittling behaviour is disrespectful. You take action on that. (Calm and unaffected, not ignoring, action rather than reaction.) A premeditated action when W behaves in a predetermined manner. That’s a boundary.

During these crazy episodes, I stay calm, and it often leads to me leaving the space (enforcing boundaries)…

Crazy episodes are, in and of themselves, not boundary worthy. You are not trying to directly control or modify W. You simply remove yourself from disrespect if and when it occurs.

…or asking her to leave the room (in case I am doing something I don't want to abandon).

I’d not ask her to leave the room. If you have exhausted cordial conversation and are at the point of boundary enforcement, enforce it. You leave.

You leaving speaks volumes. Actions speak much louder than words.

I have informed her that her threats have no effect on me and that her reactions are not only entirely under her control but are making her far more miserable than they are making me.

That will be seen as a challenge.

State your clear well thought out boundary once and then just enforce it.

Good. No matter how right you may be, she will fight against it.

[quote=PeterB]She wants me to do things for her - buy her expensive gifts (she regularly tells me that I was always much cheaper than all her friends' husbands), be physically affectionate to her frequently throughout the day, do much more around the house, etc. I know that nothing will fix her deep-seated unresolved issues, and I have also told her that I don't have the power or ability to solve her problems. I reminded her that our MR had bottomed and there was no shortcut to a wholesome, loving MR, but she seems to be very resentful that she does not have that now and that I am not really "stepping up."

What is W’s love language? What is your’s?

You cannot fix her for you did not break her. However, you can certainly clean up your side of the street and address any improvements or shortcomings, especially since your toolbox is acquiring more and better tools now.

She always attempts to come back by cooking something or saying something nice but then repeats her off-the-rails behavior within days. I have found myself withdrawing and losing hope, but I do not show that outside.

You recognize this dynamic. This cycle.

Boundaries and influence. Acknowledge her positive behaviour, be unaffected by her negative, and implement boundaries when necessary.

I am trying to save our marriage for the sake of my autistic son. I know that is not the right reason, but I can't seem to look past that.

“Trying”, “but”, “can’t”.

Do or do not, there is no try. Trying encourages a mindset where success and fail have equal possibilities and probabilities. Doing encourages and focuses one’s efforts better.

Can’t. As in it’s impossible? Or is it more won’t? You are in control. “Can’t” removes that control. “Won’t” allows room for growth and betterment. It also holds yourself accountable.

Sake of son is a reason. Remove “right”. Things are seldom that black and white, or right and wrong. No need to encourage such binary thinking.

“I am efforting to save my marriage for the sake of my autistic son. I know that is not the best reason, and I’m having difficulty looking past that.”

my resolve has been steadily diminishing, and lately, I have noticed a sense of indifference to her overtures (like makeup cooking and cuddling). I have also started giving some thought to the impact on him of a D, a few years down the line if not now.

Indifference, that numbness towards your W, is perfectly normal. And temporary! Do not make major decisions in this temporary period. Be wary, other feelings loom and will look larger against the void. Indifference does unwind and feelings do return.

During this time of indifference, the LBS usually has a somewhat peace, a calm and quiet, a detachment and indifference to the cacophony of their spouse’s behaviours and words. Use this time well!

Dig in to yourself. Discover your convictions. Your values. Your beliefs.

We all have a lifetime of experiences and pressures and biases and prejudges and so on. Beliefs are very slow to change and therefore make excellent headings for life’s journey. This is strangely a golden opportunity to become.

Strengthen those beliefs that serve you. Craft those convictions you aspire to. And discard or alter that which does not serve.

Once organized, cataloged, and pruned, one’s beliefs really start to influence one’s thoughts, emotions, and actions. It is here that DB truly lives. That hope lives.

We all start with the default standing for our marriage. That slowly gives way. We stand for our spouse. Even our kids. Eventually one - stands for themselves. Their beliefs. “I stand for me.” That’s the wellspring of hope and conviction.

Become you. Become PeterB2.0.


Merry Christmas to you and your’s. And all the best in 2024.

D