Jenny, You are such a cool lady. I wonder if you ever read The Red Tent...your sensuality reminds me of Leah, just so of the earth. I am happy your jingle is back.
I have been relatively LD ( esp. compared to the way I was when I joined the board). Being an old Pink Floyd fan, I have to say I feel comfortably LD. I now have confidence my sensuality is there if I make an effort, but it's not high on the list. It feels like a healthy balance for me, after such swings in my sexuality.
I now have confidence my sensuality is there if I make an effort, but it's not high on the list.
I kind of feel this way, too. I feel like when I joined this board I wasn't wanting sex for its own sake or for pure expression or even for the pleasure of intimacy and closeness with my bf. I wanted it to affirm me, to prove that I was okay, normal, good enough, attractive. That's why his WANTING to have sex was just as important or even more important than DOING IT.
With all the internal changes I've been going through, I'm much more relaxed about the whole thing.
"The Red Tent" is one of my most FAVORITE novels of all time! I think every woman on this board would ADORE it! The guys probably would, too. I was in a class with my late H years ago and I loaned it to one of the people in the class. It started going from hand to hand, and I didn't get it back for TWO YEARS. I heard Anita Diamant (BTW she pronounces it exactly like "diamond" but with a "t" sound at the end instead of a "d") speak about writing the book. She's a journalist and researcher and the book is painstakingly authentic as far as setting, customs, etc. I remember as I got close to the end, I kept reading slower and slower, because I didn't want it to end.
Therefore, what they want sexually is to be dominated. Any man who has mastered the "tricks" of being a strong "top" sexually will have no trouble getting action. Most of the advice that BF is offering the other men is valid because he is trying to demonstrate how to be a strong "top". IMO this is "valid" advice but not "good" advice. Here's why. BF made the point that most of the time if he tells a woman what to do she will do it. This is because of the woman's Pavlovian response as a sexual "bottom". OTOH, as we all know, if a HDM in any way tries to placate a woman in an attempt to get sex he is doomed to failure because he is acting too much like a "bottom". My point is that there is a difference between being a strong man sexually and being a strong "top" sexually. If you "tell" a woman to be sexual she probably won't say "no" but if you "ask" a woman to be sexual she might say "yes" with a part of her that is better, more whole, than just her "bottom" instinct. But it takes a strong man to risk hearing "no" in that way.
Mojo, manytimes your posts and analogies are simply brilliant. [cough]This is not one of those times. [cough] I think your work out burned some fat cells and released some latent THC from your youth. hehe.
I wouldnt call it a pavlovian response. Ive never said anything about telling a woman to have sex with you. [snort] Id love to see someone try that. Ive also never talked about using 'tricks' or tactics. They DO NOT work. Thats what a womans testing is designed to expose and eliminate. Some just dont know when to stop, because its harming them, not protecting them.
OG is right on the money with WYSIWYG. a couple days ago when I mentioned the word 'tricks' I wasnt referring to tactics, I was referring to sticking to R's that had no future.
There is nothing strong or masculine about appealing to the girl. You are right about that. Women dont approach that, they settle for it. That kind of activity is for entertaining monkeys, men with no boundaries and guys who have nothing better to do then chase after whatever will say yes. Like the salsmen who go for the shotgun approach of asking 100 and hoping for 1.
It will occasionally git them one night. Its not going to do anything whatsoever for HD. There is nothing wrong with a little levity here and there to show you dont take yourself so serious. I actually have to remind myself, because when I become stressed or busy, I turn into the emotionless 'robot'. I dont have time for ridiculous, irrelevant emotions. unfortunately thats not toungue in cheek. It would be nice to encounter a woman who didnt personalize that and could point it out in positive way when I was slipping. Actually I did, she was really really good at the female thing. Really good. Really aware. She abused her power. She tried to use it on me once and I told her "knock that off, It doesnt work on me. Save that sh!t for the customers.' Unfortunately she chewed prescription opiates like PEZ on friday nights. That didnt stop my attraction, but I was able to arrest my actions. eventually.
but if you "ask" a woman to be sexual she might say "yes" Uhhuh. even though HOW its done is important-- since this is a venue of words, your suggesting that the men should supplicate. stop that. You cant 'tell' anyone to do anything. They always have a choice. The guy who held your hand didnt tell you what to do, he told you what he wanted to do to you. You were free to react as you wished. You could have slapped him and acted shocked and offended. You could have been 'disgusted'. You chose to be open to it. When you H bit you on the leg, what was he appealing too? You post about how to make love/live as a woman was amazing. Tell you what, you stay on your side of the fence, and Ill stay on mine. LOL.
But it takes a strong man to risk hearing "no" in that way.
Id like to hear one HDW in here who wouldnt love for her H to pick her up throw her over his shoulder and stomp up to the bedroom with the intention of having his way with her, while she struggled and 'wrestled' against him. I would love to see GGB do that. or just blow thru her resistance by 'teasing' her up and down to having a real O or just pinning her down and 'making' her O. shrug. all in good time.
That takes a lot of 'guts' for a man to do and then figure out if she really doesnt want it, or if she is just 'playing' or insecurely objecting. It takes even more for a guy who wants to be 'respectful' 'nice' and not push her 'boundaries' when she is saying 'dont do that'. If a woman believes my 'dont do thats' she'll never have a chance. She has to have a butt load of confidance in who she is as a woman.
Putting yourself in the face of rejection and then not personalizing it, if and when it comes is a real demonstration of strength and self assuredness.
Oh yeah. in that post when I mentioned post partum women not being attractive, I was mostly referring to the the fact that they are not sexually available and in the majoriy of cases not inclined (due to hormones). I mentioned that cause I noticed what most of you fixated on in my remark. I would imagine that the emotions of being a father and the wonder and appreciation would more then compensate for the temporary physical and visual changes.
IHJ I dont know if I mentioned it before, but If you like Pink Floyd, I think you might enjoy some of the music by Wolfmother, particularly 'Minds eye' and 'The White Unicorn'. Didnt you say you were a chem major? How can you be LD[taptaptap].... are you a blond jewish american princess? Dont answer that.
Blackfoot... Thanks for the music recommendations... I like finding new stuff, but I am really out of it.
Yes, I was a bio/chem major...imagine that, a 4 who's a science geek (4's are supposed to be writers, artists, etc.). I went to med school and worked much of my life in a lab atmosphere ( how is that for romance)? I became interested in psych a few years back and then found myself at a crossroads; I have been essentially unemployed for the last 18 months while I go through my mini MLC.
Id like to hear one HDW in here who wouldnt love for her H to pick her up throw her over his shoulder and stomp up to the bedroom with the intention of having his way with her, while she struggled and 'wrestled' against him. I would love to see GGB do that. or just blow thru her resistance by 'teasing' her up and down to having a real O or just pinning her down and 'making' her O. shrug. all in good time.
That takes a lot of 'guts' for a man to do and then figure out if she really doesnt want it, or if she is just 'playing' or insecurely objecting. It takes even more for a guy who wants to be 'respectful' 'nice' and not push her 'boundaries' when she is saying 'dont do that'. If a woman believes my 'dont do thats' she'll never have a chance. She has to have a butt load of confidance in who she is as a woman.
Putting yourself in the face of rejection and then not personalizing it, if and when it comes is a real demonstration of strength and self assuredness.
Really great description complete with the caveat of making sure that the woman really wants it. I've actually said a similar version of this before. And what a great description of showing how it goes both ways between men and women.
Oh and one additional caveat - if you are seriously thinking of trying this, man or woman, please think about the timing issue. If your guy truly wants to come home and have 30 minutes of down time watching ESPN/ Nightly News, or working out, or whatever, That is NOT the time to seduce him. The same goes for men. If your wife has certain needs like washing dishes immediately after dinner, having time to drink afternoon tea and read a book, etc., that's not the time to try either. At least not in relationships that are in the healing process. i know I was being a bit stereotypical but my main point was not setting yourself up for failure just by ignoring things your spouse has already told you. This is directly from Michelle and I love this description because I was terrible at doing the same thing. She used to try to talk to her husband at certain times of the day even after he told her he didn't like talking x,y, and z. She finally decided to just listen to his request and not have him justify why he didn't want to talk x,y, and z. The same thing here. if your spouse has said, "I like to have x time to do y thing after z thing" (is that neutral enough??) then sure as heck don't ak them to do "p" thing at x time during y thing. Is that clear as mud?
Anyway this also kind of dovetails into my theory that men are wrong when they say that women don't want nice guys (very similar to the men love b!tches theorem and just as "wrong") . That's simplifying the choice into 1) Nice guy and 2) Bad Boy. But my interpretation is that many guys who think they are "nice" are actually pushovers. Nice guy in my book does NOT equal pushover (and nice girl shouldn't equal pushover either). So the #3 MAN is the real choice - Sweetheart of a man WHO isn't a pushover and is confident in who he is. That is the real Man that most women want.
In my opinion the only type of women that truly want "Bad boys" are women with emotional and psychological issues. (A professional baseball player whose name escapes me and his wife have talked about their own relationship issues on a similar subject. She had had issues and past abusive boyfriends and was falling into a trap of trying to escalate arguments between them into physical confrontations because it was all she was used to. This MAN was strong enough to see what she was doing AND to not fall into the trap of a) abusing her the way she was baiting him to or b) becoming a pushover to try to help her and appease her. Instead he, in one instance, pulled over the car, stepped out and said(I'm paraphrasing off the top of my head), "I am not going to react to this the way you are pushing me to. You need to KNOW that I love you. I will not tolerate this but I will not yell and physically abuse you. You need to deal with this issue. I will be here for you but I will not tolerate living like this" He was dedicated to her and loved her but you could tell that he was strong enough that he wouldn't tolerate that way of life. Thankfully I think she reacted to this #3 Man. The guy who was nice enough to love and respect her but strong enough to love and respect himself.
All right confession time. I've had three cups of regular coffee today after 2 months of decaf. Is it obvious?
Anyway... If these are incoherent, babbling posts with no redeeming value, I apologize in advance. (See, i still have my own work to do because I tend to put myself down as a pre-emptive strike.)
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
Mojo, manytimes your posts and analogies are simply brilliant. [cough]This is not one of those times. [cough] I think your work out burned some fat cells and released some latent THC from your youth. hehe.
I wish, I'm afraid I'm still working on this year's Xmas cookies. FYI, what I was actually thinking was f*cking brilliant and totally Post-Schnarchian but it just didn't come out right in type.
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Ive never said anything about telling a woman to have sex with you.
I'm too lazy to search around the threads but I know that somewhere you said something like "In my experience whenever I've simply told a woman to do something she has done it. She might fuss a bit but eventually she does it.". Mayhaps you weren't referring to sex when you said this but if this is a universal truth about women why wouldn't it work for sex too?
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Thats what a womans testing is designed to expose and eliminate. Some just dont know when to stop, because its harming them, not protecting them.
I don't quite get this womans testing concept. I think I must have flunked that course at Miss Godey's Charm School for Young Misses.
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Uhhuh. even though HOW its done is important-- since this is a venue of words, your suggesting that the men should supplicate. stop that. You cant 'tell' anyone to do anything. They always have a choice.
I'm NOT suggesting that men should supplicate. I absolutely agree that my use of the words "tell" and "ask" was unfortunate. I'll think about what I was trying to say some more and try to do better in a future post.
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The guy who held your hand didnt tell you what to do, he told you what he wanted to do to you. You were free to react as you wished. You could have slapped him and acted shocked and offended. You could have been 'disgusted'. You chose to be open to it.
But please remember that I am sort of a clueless Dodo bird when it comes to men because I was raised by a gentle man in a family of sisters. When I was in high school I had a persistent obscene phone caller who just made me curious when he said things like "I'm going to leave a jar of sperm on your desk.". Instead of hanging up on him I would just be wondering how he was going to manage that.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
hehe.