My pleasure. Honestly, I wish I could talk to him and offer him hope. I wish someone could talk to my wife and offer her hope. I think that's the reason DB and other "systems" tell you not to talk to too many other people. Most people, rather than remaining a friend to the wayward spouse, listening and encouraging them to hope, instead tend to jump down their throats, judge, and tell them to "stick it out" because it's the right thing to do. Yeah, if we're Christians, we all know it's the right thing to do, but if they are at the point of having an affair, or considering leaving the marriage, traditional religous and ethical systems no longer hold their allegiance. Also, rather than offering them grace, love and a vision for an intimate, passionate marriage, they are simply telling them to "just say no" to divorce and adultery. Just say no? If it were that easy, then we wouldn't need a Savior who said "no" to sin for us and who said "yes" to God for us. Hellooooo!!!!
Anyhow, I'm preaching to the choir.
MuddleThrough, I really apprecicate your non-judgemental perspective. I need more of that. I think to discuss that with you. I don't have my own thread yet, so I'll ping you a private message, or perhaps, start a thread on the topic of being non-judgmental and respectful when you feel your spouse is morally wrong. It almost sounds zen-like in it's perpective of trying not to contol outcomes. In addition, I like your understanding of stating who you are clearly and asking for needs to be met without contolling or being controlled by other people. Yet...I find a paradox, because who I am is a person with crystal-clear moral/ethical stands, and yet, my judgments are crushing my wife. I'm working on bweing my authentic self withour worrying what my wife thinks, yet I'm working on humility and trying not to be judmental.
I think it would be a great discussion to have on the forum. I look forward to it.
I think it's important to adhere to your standards while accepting that others do the same. "Working on being" is really about awareness, in my opinion. Being aware that you have the choice to be humble in the moment allows you to do so, being aware of having the opportunity to be judgmental and also of an alternative path allows you to make the choice not to do so.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
Thanks for stopping in everyone! I feel I should have had chips & salsa out for you - it's a party!
Unfortunately, after a few days off (aaahhhh!) I return to night shift tonight, and must start getting ready
BUT. Had to share this first so I don't forget it.
As ya'll know, I love me some Isaiah - and really only found out how fab it is since the bomb:
God, your Redeemer, who shaped your life in your mother's womb, says: 'I am God. I made all that is. With no help from you I spread out the skies and laid out the earth.' Isaiah 44:24 (The Msg translation)
Note the bold, which is what YELLED at me today. Hello?! I have GOT to lay down my earthly eyeballs - I can't fix this, I can't MAKE H love me again, I can't DO DO DO, when I keep praying WHAT SHOULD I DO?
GOD can do it, WITH NO HELP FROM ME, thanks. He's most capable, he made the earth and raised the dead, for Pete's sake. What am I doing running around like a headless chicken, worried that every little thing I say/don't say or do/don't do will critically affect my situation? I am NOT that powerful, but God IS.
Forget the former things; do not dwell on the past. See, I am doing a new thing! Is 43:18-19
If it seems slow in coming, wait. It's on its way. It will come right on time. Hab 2:3
You're doing so well. This is hard for you and H, but consider this. If this was *easy* for him to get through, it would mean that it's part of his character, part of who he is and does not mean much to have had an A.
Just my oversimplified way of looking at things now, since I am tired of complicated analysis (geesh).
So, since I'm not much help, I thought I would stop by your curb, get some chips and salsa, and give you a thumbs up.
One bit of advice: at some point, you and H will slowly have to stop picking at the scab, stop looking at the scar while it slooooowwwwlllllyyyy heals. Stop looking at the wound, wondering, thinking, picking.
It's not easy, and it's not sudden and it's not without LOTS of counseling and healing, but little by little, mama.
BI, I think you're hitting on something really profound here. Letting go of the illusion of control. If you focus on the impact your actions have on another person you're not really living. You're not doing justice to yourself. God gave you the gift of your body and mind and heart and soul - are you respecting and appreciating this gift by torturing yourself? Let go of control and allow yourself to focus on caring for you. Allow yourself to channel God's love and will rather than trying to substitute your own.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
God, your Redeemer, who shaped your life in your mother's womb, says: 'I am God. I made all that is. With no help from you I spread out the skies and laid out the earth.' Isaiah 44:24 (The Msg translation)
You are absolutly right with this. It is a simple to say that we need to let go and let God take care of our problems for us but he still needs us to walk his path and believe. Without the belief that he will provide for us then we are lost and will continue down our cheesless tunnel. I hope you are doing alright. I have not been able to keep up with everyone due to my own sitch as of late. Needed to take a little break from chatting and get my head straight.
I hope you have a wonderful day and that everything is going great for you.
Later, Ben
Ben 32 STBXW 29 3 kids (D1,S4,SD8) (1 dog 5months) Status: Fighting for the Kids.
"The only thing we know about future developments is that they will develope."
I've just been reading your post and I just want to say that your "small enough" prayer made me shed tears. It touched that place that is so hurt and torn. The place that knows that only God can make it better. I wish that I could feel a hug from Jesus in these dark moments of life. I have a very similar story as you and I truly feel the dissappointment that comes from finding out that your H isn't really any closer to feeling better about being together.
I just filed for my divorce since my H who had professed his desire to stay to keep the family together, was actually behind my back still communicating with OW. I guessed he hoped to stay until the kids were a little older and then he could leave and go to his"soulmate" BTW mine has been going on for over 2 yrs.
You know what tipped me off was spending 6+months seeing that he had trouble being really close and affectionate other than just having sex.
Oh well, what I pray for you is that your H really work at being obedient to God and let God fill him with the many blessings he has for those that do the right thing and trust in him.
My thanks thanks thanks for dropping by this thread today. I sure needed the company!
Every time I think I see hope, or have a decent-ish day, I am treated to another (UNprovoked) discussion with H. Latest one just ended about 10 minutes ago, he went downstairs to pay bills: no kiss goodnight, and I cried alone and came here.
sigh.
He went to work out tonight, as usual, and I had a pamper-me evening. Soaked my feet and did a total pedicure on my tired tootsies. Felt great, then I curled up reading "Love & Respect". I started reading it waaaay pre-A, and stopped about 1/2way thru never to pick it up again. Picked it up a few weeks ago, and it's amazing the different perspective I have now, a year and a half later. It made sense before, but I am reading it now with completely new eyes, you know?
And while I thought it was perhaps a bit foolish to be reading this particular book, in light of having almost zero R with my H except that he's in the house, I have some innate (stupid?) hope/optimism at my core, in the face of all that is Not. I still hope for what Might Be. Anyway, I figured any insight into a good R will benefit me later/in another life/at some point, if not now.
So I was reading wonderful ideas, having some crazy hope, and feeling peaceful that God is in charge and surely he would be charging in on His white horse sooner than later, so that I could put into practice fully all the stuff I was reading about.
And then H came home.
He is SO nowhere near capable of anything with me beyond what we are living. He's just DROWNING in his hurt, and again, I am a part and parcel of that hurt.
He used to acknowledge his 'sin' against me, with no caveats, but now they are always in place. He said you know, when I had the A I hurt you deeply, your womanhood in a way I couldn't even understand. And before I could even have a little comfort from that, he continued, but when you turned me in, you hurt me deeply as a man. My life is over, I have to rebuild. I have no identity as a man b/c of the loss of job, dignity etc. We ripped each other apart. That he's so hurt that he can't move past it (implied: do anything about this R/M).
I validated, when I wanted to fcuking scream at him. I understood how he feels, apologized again ad nauseum for my part in his pain, etc. And I said that nothing I said or did could change what happened, or how he felt about it. That I would change things if I could but I cannot. And that either God can raise the dead, or He can't. That His promises are true, or they aren't. You know? I am trying like crazy to be/show/act respectful, or else why am I reading this book? My voice is not tense and b!tchy (i.e. Old Me) and actually soft enough that he asked me several times to repeat what I had said (which probably just irritated him)
I want to scream from a mountain: I am a completely New wife, but you're too wrapped up in yourself, your pain, your hurt, you you you to See Me. And that's just me being selfish as well, perhaps. Me me me.
Sh!t, people. My bad action is equal to his, in his mind, and he's quit working to rebuild, repair, or make any effort outside of pleasantries and co-parenting. And he's looking to find a job away from here (if it's God's will) to escape from the daily torture of seeing people, and he wants me to come along for more of the same? Fcuk that, screams my inside self.
But I'm being quiet outwardly. Inside, I'm screaming at God to Help Me, and work it all out as He sees fit, as I know that Now is not the time for ultimatums or whatnot about the R. Maybe it never will be, but I do know that I will not be going across the fcuking street with this man unless God makes it very clear with a roadmap and some movement toward me from H. Well, maybe not a roadmap, but some clear direction, you know?
I did say, somewhere in this unprovoked discussion, that if it weren't for the children, I know you would not still be here. And he didn't say a word. ::screaming silently:::
Forget the former things; do not dwell on the past. See, I am doing a new thing! Is 43:18-19
If it seems slow in coming, wait. It's on its way. It will come right on time. Hab 2:3
I had a pamper-me evening. Soaked my feet and did a total pedicure on my tired tootsies. Felt great
Good for you. Taking time to care for yourself is great, and necessary. Glad you enjoyed it.
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He is SO nowhere near capable of anything with me beyond what we are living. He's just DROWNING in his hurt, and again, I am a part and parcel of that hurt.
BI, you did what you did, way back when. You did what you thought was your best option back then. You hurt him then. Today he hurts himself with this knowledge. He makes himself miserable with the facts of the past. You are not hurting him still, he is using your past actions to hurt himself in the present. Just as you have done with the fact that he had the affair. It is a painful memory, but it can only hurt when the "victim" chooses to dwell on it.
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And before I could even have a little comfort from that. . .
Perhaps you could forgive him to the point where you see him as an equal and not as someone who owes you a debt. Why do you find comfort in his acknowledging that he hurt you? Wouldn't you rather see the human awareness of the suffering he caused and the guilt and shame in his memory of it? Wouldn't you prefer he let go of this?
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We ripped each other apart.
He really believes this - and it seems that it's not just something that happened in the past. You are continuing to resent and blame - it sounds like it's happening on both sides. There is enormous love in forgiveness - and forgiving is something that needs to happen on a regular basis. You have to forgive yourself as well as forgive him and vice versa. You can't do one without the other.
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That he's so hurt that he can't move past it (implied: do anything about this R/M).
He's still in the past, the relationship is still there. The painful events play themselves over and over in his mind. I wonder if you could ask him what the biggest triggers are for him to keep it there. Maybe you could make a change that would allow the past to fall away. Perhaps you're living in the past too much yourself.
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I validated, when I wanted to fcuking scream at him. I understood how he feels, apologized again ad nauseum for my part in his pain
I think this should be the last time you apologize. You conveyed your sincere remorse already. Things like this should not be held over another's head. Either he gets over it or he doesn't - it's his problem to deal with, and if he wants to make you a part of the solution, he can ask, but you can not solve this problem for him.
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I want to scream from a mountain: I am a completely New wife, but you're too wrapped up in yourself, your pain, your hurt, you you you to See Me. And that's just me being selfish as well, perhaps. Me me me.
BI, you're doing great. You've come a long way, and you should be proud of all of it. It was an enormous struggle, and you are a better person for it. He IS too wrapped up in himself to see right now. He needs to rebuild himself and his life. Right now he seems trapped in a place where something is preventing him from doing so. So he looks to blame someone or something for his lack of progress. Give him time and space and don't take his problems personally.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
