Went to the first post session Saturday night. H did complain saying, "why would anyone have it on a Saturday night?" I bit my tongue and suppressed my sarcastic answer which would’ve gone something like this: “Because, after working all day most people would much rather do it on a Sat. night and low and behold they could make a date of it
My H hasn’t realized that the definition of a married single(they explain what this is in depth at the weekend, just substitute MLCer behavior into it and it applies) applies to him.
Any way, no sarcasm from me.
When we got there he seemed to genuinely enjoy it. He participated, even though he was tired, having been out jamming the night before until 2:00AM .
He seems to enjoy doing our homework every night also. We are still just dialoguing about feelings and not doing any conflict resolution yet. That comes a little farther along in the process. I’m getting a bit impatient because we have a lot of issues to address.
Right now we spend 20 minutes a day with just each other doing the dialogue. Other then that, it is business as usual.
The question we dialogued about: What is the best memory I have about us this week? How do I feel about my answer?
We both answered that the best memory we had of each other this week was, when we were dialoguing. He felt contented and I felt tentative. As he was trying to understand my feeling of tentativeness, he asked me: “Is it tentative like you’re not sure you have a partner who is as committed to this as you are?” I was surprised because that was not how I meant tentative at all but now I was curious. Before I could get him to elaborate we were interrupted. Even so during dialogue, we only get to talk about feelings during the 20 minutes. I write how I feel and he comes up with an analogy that will show me that he understands exactly how I am feeling and vice-versa. There are no why’s, where’s, or therefore’s. Just feelings. Eventually you get to discussion where you get to express thoughts, ideas, opinions and attitudes. But we haven’t gotten there yet.
I am appreciative that he has the desire to do the exercises. That is a first step. I’ve just been at this for so long that I am weary for some kind of intimacy. Well as "they" say, "slow and steady wins the race", I guess.
Sting: Thanks for stopping by and for the encouragement, I sure do appreciate it. Perhaps the ice IS starting to melt, it's just so hard to tell with my H. As far as he is concerned, if it is not manifested(in his actions), I don't trust my intuition where he is concerned.
Kansha, I'm glad he quit complaining and enjoyed the session once he got there. Maybe he won't give you such a hard time about the next one.
It really sounds like you two are making progress--maybe not as fast as you'd like, but progress nonetheless. Keep it up!! As you say, slow & steady wins the race...
St.Kansha: I think it turned out better than you could have hoped for. My concern was that he just GO!!!! If he is still actively doing the homework & follow through then I don't see any negative. I'm so happy for you. Barb
Had a long talk with H today. He shared how angry he is. He said he was sitting in the bathtub this AM when he remembered my reaction to his pronouncement (2 years ago) that I was now responsible for paying for the kids private school. Never mind that I wasn’t working and he was deep in MLC, just, that I didn’t jump with open arms to take on a $2,000.00 a month expense. This according to him makes me selfish.
I said how come my reaction makes me selfish. How come you aren’t interested in how it made me feel for you to pronounce out of the blue that I was now responsible for the kids school. How come you have to make a negative assumption about me when I say how I feel. My response when he pronounced that I was now responsible for the kids school was, he says, something like: “So you aren’t committed to them going to that school?”. He says this response makes me selfish and my response should have instead been me just saying, oh sure I’ll get right on it.
I said, it’s all in ones attitude. How come I’m always selfish, thwarting you, dissing you, or whatever when I share my feelings or thoughts? Why don’t you ask me how I feel about things before you make assumptions that make me out to be the bad person.
It was a difficult discussion but we did get to share a lot of our issues in a way that was fairly functional. He feels very good about the conversation as if he has become clearer about his boundaries. I on the other hand feel somewhat depressed(I don't want to be with someone that doesn't want to be with me and doesn't think it is worth the effort).
I told him again that I had told him before we moved into this house, that I did not want to “Share” a house and co-parent with him. I told him that I had moved into this house because I thought we were working towards making a good marriage. He said, he wants a family that is thriving but he wants autonomy when he is working on a project. He doesn’t want to deal with relationship issues.
It was a couple hour conversation and we actually communicated fairly functionally.
Interesting side note, you may remember my sarcastic aside, above after our first follow up, about perhaps making “a date” out of the Retrouvaille follow up evenings. Well, H invited me to go to an old friend of his’ birthday party after our next session in a week and a half.
I just don’t get H. His words just do not match his actions. I told him I was tired of defending myself. (I don't actually defend myself but he always has some negative take on what I say or do and I have to clarify all the time) I also said, that the only way we were are going to make any progress is if he stops focusing on the things that he does not like about me, and starts focusing on the things he does like. I modeled that for him by telling him all of the traits I like about him and then starting to go down the path of thinking of some of his traits that I don’t like but stopping myself right in the middle and going back to his positive traits. I am just so tired. He is so confusing. At one point he was vehement that we are separated but then he agreed with me about why we moved in to a new house together. I’m so confused and tired.
Afterword, later, I asked him if he would do a dialogue (Retrouvaille, technique about feelings) and he did.
We dialogued about how we felt about our conversation this afternoon. He said he felt powerful and I said I felt discouraged.
Deb, I guess we are making progress but it feels so confusing. I don't want him to be here unless he wants to be here. He so often feels manipulated or victimised in some way. I'm so confused, I think he is going or doing something on his own volition and that we made the decision together and then it feels like he re-writes the script, with him feeling angry. The good thing is today he was trying to look at why he is so angry.
I also reminded him that forgiveness is a choice and that the past is in the past. If he chooses to be angry at me there is nothing I can do about it.
Barb, well yes, he did go, and we are doing the homework. I just want to feel appreciated and wanted. I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me. Which of course I said to him. He back pedals when I try to let him off the hook and suggest that perhaps it is just best if we can go our own separate ways. He then says, well you can't afford it, to which I say, that is not at issue, that is not a reason in my book, for staying together. I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me. I am so tired.
Kansha, I can hear your weariness and feel the pain in your post. Hugs to you, honey!!
It sounds to me like he still has a lot of anger (and other issues) to work through, and it will take him a while longer. But at least at this point, he appears to be making the effort. And I would say he knows, maybe not in his consciousness, but at least subconsciously, that he wants to be with you.
You haven't earned your "sainthood" for nothing, my dear, so if you love him, don't throw in the towel just yet. Try to keep helping him along, because I do think he's making progress.
I don't mean to be minimizing your feelings, either, so please don't take this that way. I know how badly you want, need, and DESERVE to feel loved, and how long it has been since he's made you feel that way. No one would blame you if you decided to pack it in and head your own way--but I don't think you really want to do that. You sound discouraged, but I know you're a fighter. Why would you give up NOW?
-here is some perspective... -- you may already realize this...
Retrouvaille is great!!! I went and at the time it was the catalyst that sent our R in the right direction; however, it was not the magic bullet I thought it was...
Consider IT to be a major step in the positive direction BUT only a beginning AND only a piece of the puzzle -just one additional tool. Do not forget that you should always focus on what works AND continue to find solutions... Dialog WORKS when you and H both want to do it -- IF you push dialog then it may not work, in essence DBing is still required and finding the best ways to get H to continue to dialog may be necessary in addition to best methods to get H to continue attending post sessions etc. etc. -continue wearing your DB hat AND doing what works... Also, you will find out much about what H feels, likes, dislikes etc through dialog -YES it is good to know this stuff BUT do not stop there, continue working on you and finding solutions to problems etc.
Retrouvaille gave you better communication & renewed commitment BUT remember that some of the underlying issues that got you here are still there and are potential pitfalls until dealt with...
-not trying to rain on your parade -just handing you an umbrella for two!
Debm, Thank you so much for "getting" just how weary and in how much pain I was in. Your encouragement was so helpful. It was like I was at the last little bit of the race and I had fallen. You encouraged me to get up and keep going. I thank you for that. I owe you so much for your constant support of me.
Sorry it took me so long to respond. I just didn't feel able to post. But your post helped me immeasurably.
Einstein,
You could never rain on my parade, I value your thoughts too much. Thanks for the reminders. I particularly had to let go of wanting to do the dialouge more then H. It is in his court and he wants to do it about 4 or 5 times a week which considering, is pretty awesome.
The post sessions have been updated this year and they now have a work book. It is full of nuts and bolts kinds of things as well as dialoguing. I don't know when you participated in a weekend but you might find you get more out of it the second time around.
Thanks for taking the time to post on my thread. I hope you and yours are well.
Two, tell tale signs that things are moving in the right direction is that my H consults me in business issues and wants to share with me and values my thoughts like he used to. Yeah!
And second, He invited me to a party of some of his old working buddies. We went and had a great time.
Yes, it is slow but things are progressing.
H still sleeps in the studio. In reality I'm probably not ready for the return of that aspect anyway even though I miss it terribly.
Kansha, Glad my post was of some help to you. I hope you're doing better now, and had at least a peaceful Thanksgiving. I'm really glad to hear he invited you to the party with his working buds--I think that's a really good sign! Ever so slooooooooowly, though... Keep your faith! Deb
I am debating asking my spouse to go to Retrouvaille. I do not think that she will agree to go, but think it is worth trying. I have two questions. First, do you have any advice on how to ask? Second, I have had some input (on these boards) suggesting that if you spouse sees no hope (mine does not) that this may be perceived as too much pressure and that just DBing may be better. I have also heard that Retroaville will not help if there is a third party in the wings (I suspect this but have no confirmation).
