quote:Originally posted by Michele: This doesn't mean that you should completely withdraw. Nor does the LRT mean that either. ... getting a grip on your own life and being more upbeat.
Re-read page 130. I wrote that if your spouse starts to show interest, readers should "Be loving in return, but do not become overly excited or enthusiastic."
Thanks Michele, I did re-read that page and get it now. I am able to do this now and actually have seen baby steps. What you said about getting a grip on our own lives is the key, imo, and because I have done this, I am able to do what you've suggested. Also, being on antidepressant - something I've resisted, has helped me cope with reality. It hasn't changed it - but helps me cope.
To Yazzie...I'm no expert but have gone through something similar to you. My H would still talk to me about his concerns (i.e. work) but was not receptive to mine. (He is more receptive now but that only happened recently and after I let go of my expectations for him). About going totally dark and avoiding your H's calls, that's what I meant when I asked the question about "overdoing" the 180 or LRT. If your H is trying to contact you, and he is nice, reward him by being nice in return. Keep your expectations low and realize that he needs to make baby steps too. If he is displacing anger on you, could you tell him politely that you won't tolerate it - then you leave the room or if on the phone say, I'm not listening to this, goodbye, click? I think the key is to not fall into the defensive trap when anger is being displaced on us. Do you actually fear your spouse though? If so, then I'd think going totally dark, because of safety concerns, would make sense.
Michele, hi, I'd posted under a new heading, sorry.
I've posted on newcomers and received a lot of help. The situation in a nutshell. Married 7 yrs Me 32yrs WAW 34yrs D 4.5yrs UK military (WAW ex military) Separated 2.5yrs ago for 4 months (Me at military college + financial problems) Separated now 1 month - reason from WAW - we've grown apart, how can I be the way I am, if I loved her...
I am more convinced it is the end by...
WAW not caring if I saw someone else (I'm not doing so/we haven't ever) WAW 'clearing house' pictures, memetos, pets (out dog goes in the am) WAW not willing for C WAW convinced it is all over (appears to have even got over the emotion of it)
We were happy a few months ago, new place, new job (no financial worries) etc. D started school, W worked with horses, then it was all over. She said we'd reached this point before, not only separation, but the long talks which we didn't put into practice. Now she feels there is no way forward, at all. I moved out (1 mth ago) and she has got on with her life, busy etc. She seems happy with it all and her biggest concern is my R with my D. Do I just let her go, going dark etc mightn't work as then she'd feel D was being 'punished' by me.
I really do feel it is over, any contradicting evidence out there to assist me. Have read the threads (all of them I think). Do I carry on doing.......something or just throw in the towel, as WAW has done (i feel). She has just 'given up', no fight, no sadness, no arguing, just end.
Thanks for any guidance - I fear that the further down the road she goes the less she'll look back. I said to her that I didn't want her thinking What If in 6/12/18 mths. She said, quite rightly, that was her problem.
At present I have no idea what to do. If lovingly detach is the way then it seems that will be the end.
Thanks for sharing your experiences with me. It always helps to hear from others. Up until recently, my H was deep in the anger phase of his mlc - now he seems to go in an out of this phase without warning. When he is angry, any contact from me is seen as controlling or persuing, and he will lash out at me. Since he doesn't live here, it is not a matter of personal safety. But I don't want to be subjected to the verbal abuse, either. Yes, I can simply hang up the phone.
I'm actually beginning to feel comfortable with progress we're making - and will continue to stay dark. I think the key now is to just be patient. He is making efforts to contact me, to find out what is going on in my life, and in small ways, to actually interact. This is all I want right now. I have to be very careful how I respond to anything he does. He has told me and others that he "doesn't want me to get my hopes up" about reconciliation. So if I respond in a way that he suspects as I am interpreting his attentions or actions as he is interested in me, he gets angry or does something cruel, just to make a point.
So far, I have been dark since mid-September. Only brief email exchanges regarding financial matters. I ran into him last week when I dropped mail off at his office (first time I have seen him since going dark). He was falling all over himself trying to follow me out the door of his building, asking me a series of questions about how I was doing, how are the animals, etc, etc... This is a huge difference from before I went dark. At that point, he was telling me I could disappear off the face of the earth, for all he cared
So, I guess I'm doing OK, and just need to be very aware of the baby steps H makes, and act accordingly.
JJ- Thanks for that really great story! I love it. It makes perfect sense to me. You know how I always use the see saw metaphor- "The more one person does of something, the less the other one will do." Well, you have been the fixer and she has been the fixee, as it were. So when you needed "help", it gave her the opportunity to step out of her fixee role and be positive and proactive. I'm so glad you thought of it. It probably boosted her self-esteem to be needed by you and for you to value her input. You're at it again, JJ, being the solution-oriented man i know you to be! Michele
Harmony, You certainly are doing your homework. You've got a wonderful plan that I agree with wholeheartedly. I am impressed with your ability to set a goal and have a plan and stick with it even under trying circumstances. You should feel proud of yourself for sure.
I also love the fact that you have done what I've suggested, ask yourself what role the OP plays in your husband's life. That's a really hard question. Your answer is very insightful.
Obviously, it's hard to compliment him on his values right now, however, despite his confusion, he is home with you, and, from his perspective, working on your marriage. It may not be to your liking completely, but nonetheless, he's there. If you find yourself able to say something like, "I know this must be difficult/confusing for you sometimes, but I admnire your commitment to being here working things out in our marriage" (or something like that), that would be great. If you're right about his need to be admired being fulfilled by the OW, taking this stance might help facilitate things.
However, I really like your back-up plan. It will give you strength.
You're on the right track.....Keep up the good work! Michele
Yazzie Girl and Wintergirl, Isn't it interesting, you both are noticing positive changes? GREAT!!!! I'm very happy. And I want to say that you are both terrific women for being able to be solution-oriented during this tough time. Good for you. Plus, you are so willing to look inward for solutions rather than blame, hold grudges and diagnose your spouses. You are true models for DBing! Thanks for sharing your stories and experiences here.
I have a suggestion- if your husband is mean-spirited and says things that make you angry or hurt, rather than hang up or set limits like you might under "normal circumstances"...you might consider saying something like, "When you say that to me, it really hurts my feelings. I don't expect you to change necessarily, I need to change. I feel I need to protect myself so I don't feel so vulnerable to the things you say."
It's hard for a husband to become defensive in return when you talk about feeling hurt rather than saying "I'm not going to put up with this anymore." Just a thought.
Thanks, WIntergirl, with sharing your very practical ideas with Yazzie, it's this kind of exchange that truly helps people achieve their goals. Michele
Sue Ann, Do I think you're on the right track? You bet! You are following the 7 steps with a vengence! Good for you. I know this is incredibly hard, but you have to keep focused on the fact that there are baby steps forward. That's great.
Keep reading and keep doing what works. IF you'd like, come to our office and meet with one of us. That would be wonderful.
In the meantime, rest easy, you're on the right track. Michele
Steve, I know you said that you have read the threads, but you should definitely read The Divorce Remedy...quickly. It will help you figure out whether detaching lovingly is the right approach for you. What you do depends on what you've already done (or haven't done). The book will help you figure this out. Michele
My H and I have been separated since Sept. 2, using a controlled separation agreement. We agreed on 2 months, with the contract expiring this Friday, Nov. 2. During this time we have not talked at all about what will happen on Nov. 2, he has not shared with me anything at all about what he wants, we have not talked about our R at all. He says we will talk on the 2nd or 3rd.
I've been working with my special angels on the bb on what my goals are, what needs to happen if H wants to return home, and I finally found an SBT therapist in my area last week and saw her for the first time and will see her again tomorrow. We'll also talk about this subject.
I originally posted this on the topic, new and need help, but realized that this is the thread for your input. I have been posting and getting good advice on the newcomer's BB, but would love your take on things, as nothing I do seems to work. My story:
I read DR cover to cover in one night. While it opened my eyes to a lot of things I had been doing wrong, it doesn't quite compeletly fit, as there is nothing about meddling, controlling in-laws bent on destroying your marriage.
My situation is this. I have been seperated for almost 7 weekss I did not see it coming. My husband has depression and in the MLC stage. We have been having some problems in the last 2 years, especially with his lack of affection towards our son (he's 8), overly strict, and disrespectful of me. I finally gave him an ultimatum in May - go to counseling and parenting classes or I am gone. To my surprise, he had begun seeing a counselor a week before. We met her together once and that is when I first heard the word "depression". He refused medication, but after more counseling and the parenting classes, life was better than it had been in years.
Then it happened, his mother had a stroke, he stopped counseling, his sister moved here a week later and stayed with us. 3 weeks later, 5 days before signing the final papers to buy our new house, I discovered 1/2 of all the money in our accounts had been cleaned out and my husband had disappeared with his sister. After a huge arguement with my mother-in-law, he came back to get his things but insisted that his sister was staying. I told her to leave, a big fight ensued. The next day, as she was finally packing her things, she verbally attacked me (he was not there to witness it, so does not believe me), broke my phone, and told me she and her parents had been planning this for 2 years (right around the time I now see his depression started - when his dad got sick), and that they were going to take my son from me. I freaked and called the police. I got a restraining order against her. The day after she was served, my husband filed for divorce and refuses to speak to me or communicate in any way. He was forced to talk to me about our house and things as our lease was up and we both needed to move everything out, and I tried to talk to him. It seemed as if he was beginning to soften a bit and consider counseling when his sister pulled another trick. She called my bank, claiming to be me and tried to get information on my account and our joint account. The bank called the police and that was it for the bit of communication we had going, I was the bad guy again.
He has only called our son 5 times since this started, and only at my request or in response to an e-mail from our son. I tried writing to him, to no avail, he has turned into a robot, doing only as his parents order. He claims to want to be alone, but is living with his sister, who is jobless, likes to sponge off others, and knows he has money. he is not getting away from their influence. I know now that what I was doing was pursuing, and have stopped that.
His mother is a control freak, both her children claim to hate her, yet always do as she says. She admitted she never liked me because she cannot control me. She tried to get my parents to talk me out of the marriage because I was "not good enough" for their son. for 10 years I tried to deal with these people.
For the last 2 years I had been fooled into thinking that the illnesses had brought about a change in their attitudes towards me. I thought we had really gotten close and had grown to truly love them. All they while they were playing on my husbands guilt and feelings over his parents illnesses, working on controlling him again. I know I go on about my in-laws alot and I do blame them for a big piece of our problems, but I am also hurt very badly. I came to love these people and they betrayed me. I not only lost my H, I lost 4 people who were very important to me in the process.
I know that the things he's done is not really the man I've loved for the last 12 years. It's as if he's been replaced. When I asked him about his sister's threat to take our son, his response was monotone "I can neither confirm nor deny that statement". I almost fell over - it was honestly as if I was speaking to an alien.
I don't know if the 180 or last resort techniques will even work, as we now have no communication whatsoever. What advice can you give me? I desperately want to save my marriage and get my husband back from his "family".
He refuses to see our son unless I let him have him alone for a whole day, I can't do that. I have no custody papers yet and can't trust that he will bring him back. He also has a road rage problem, he's talked of suicide and drives like he's trying to get himself killed. This is taking an awful toll on my son.
I have been DB'ing before I knew what it was about, trying to make myself better for me and for him. I went back to school part-time, I stopped biting my nails, starting caring more about my hair, trying to lose weight, trying to take more of an interest in his hobbies. He acknowledged none of it. I have stopped all contact with him, but I don't even think he notices.
As angry as I was at first, I miss him even more every day. How, how, how do I proceed?
Thank you (and I apologize for the length of this post!)
