Quote: While the teasing and stuff she is talking about can be fun, I know when Im in a committed R, in love, I want to have sex with her pretty much everyday, so the game playing and pushing and waiting for days etc, doesnt sound too appealing.
Ever been married to an LD woman? While I think you are spot on about not taking her actions and rebuffs personally, and clearly stating what he wants, not allowing her to set the tone, etc., most LD women will not go from 1 or 2 times a week up to every day right out of the gate.
Corey:
I don't know if you've read any of NOP's posts, but if you haven't, they are worth a read. When he came to this board, he was in the same boat as the rest of us. I believe, if I remember correctly, the turning point began for both of them when they began to really 'hear' each other. They did it in baby steps. He listened to her and adjusted. She listened to him and adjusted. Then they'd take a few steps back... but it took some time for them to rebuild the trust, and to KNOW that the other person was really hearing them.
They can speak on this far better than I can, and I hope I have reported my recollections accurately here, but I think Mrs. Nop will agree with me when I say that LDness does NOT go away over night. The woman must, in whatever way she can, find her own motivation to meet it and challenge it. If she begins to experience positive behaviors from her man outside the bedroom, and have positive emotional connection with her H during sex... she will likely continue.
But in the same breath, a woman's LDness is damaging to the male ego, and while I think BF is on target with his advice in a committed R... I think it is good for both sides to experience success with one another, and use that as motivation to continue.
Many LD women have NO CLUE how deeply their actions are hurting their men. They only know that something is missing, something is gone, and quite honestly, do not realize how much power is within themselves to help change the situation. And they won't ever KNOW it until they can see and hear how they are contributing to the problem.
One of the things I find so fascinating with the whole 'attraction' aspect is it goes back to the very beginning. Everyone knows that the chemical phase lasts two years, tops. But there are things about the laws of 'attraction' that are always there, that are always in effect, even if you don't necessarily feel the chemical rush.
What I am suggesting I do not think would last over the long term (the teasing). At all. For like Mrs. Nop says, intimacy is about far more than hot sex, or being turned on by another person.
I think... though I don't know for certain... that some short-term success for both of them would at least get their guards down long enough to start hearing each other, so that Corey CAN begin to rebuild his part of the M in more constructive ways... and hopefully, she will, too.
I think that remembering what attracted you to the other in the first place is something to always keep in mind, but I think you also have to really think about what it was that you were doing then...how you were doing it, not just what. I think it is something often overlooked.
And what attracted you to that person then may not be the thing that attracts you to them now... but find what IS attracting you, focus on that, and start the process of 'attraction' in your own mind, all over again.
No, absolutely not, I do not think 'this' is the cure all. I do think, however, that 'attraction' can bring about a much needed shift in attitude and personal frequency...
I almost said no. I dont believe in LD women. But yes, actually x was LD as a function of our R, or her A. (I dont know I get all confused about that 50% 100% thing...)And she is not LD. I have also been in R's with self proclaimed LD women, who were suprised to find they were not.
Everyone knows I enjoy teasing, humor etc. Especially as a way to demonstrate certain behaviors in a relaxed manner.
Corey is dealing with a W coming out of a EA who was very explicit in telling him that she wanted him to stand up to her. While I dont care if she fantasizes while having sex occasionally, supposedly needing to do it every time, in what I think is a throwing it in his face manner like she apparently has in order to 'test' him and see if it hurts his feelings and will stand up for his self respect shows he needs to work on his respect and power. From his thread they seem to laugh and have fun together allready.
I never said they should have sex every day. I believe he needs to believe that his sexual needs and desires are ok and dont need to be repressed to placate his W. She as discoverd she wants the same, though not necessarily in the car at the gas station.
and yes I obviously agree with you about the being attractive. so maybe he can try both.
Thanks for the replies. You guys have definitely given me a lot to think about.
I am learning that she is not a LD woman. She is LD with me. Basically all I am getting is sex when she is horny enough to not care that it is me, or pity sex when she knows I am too grumpy for my own good. It was a vicious cycle that we got ourselves into. When she went into WAW/EA mode, she really let me have it for what she thought of me. She was very brutal. The stupid thing is, now she expects me to be the most outgoing lover in the world, feeling completely safe and trusting with her, when she ripped to threads any bit of confidence I did have in the bedroom.
I really don’t think that she understands what 6 years of rejection does to a person. So many broken promises, so many excuses. I would end up angry, so she would put out. Her resentment grows, mine grows, and then we repeat the process. I don’t fully understand what part of my behaviour turned her off in the first place, or what I continue to do that does her wrong, but I do admit that I have contributed to our SL going down hill. She feels as though all her stuff is taken care of and now I have to get with the program.
As for my naked stunt. A bit of back story and defense on that one. It started when we were just dating and living together. We had a party at our house, and everyone ended up going to the beach (we had enough sober drivers to get 3 cars and about 18 people there). Some of the guys ended up naked and swimming. Seeing as how it was 3 girls and 15 guys, I was not comfortable with her getting naked with them, since she was the only girl that even wanted to take her clothes off. Am I shy? Yes. Do I want all of my guy friends seeing my wife naked? No. Not that I think there is anything wrong with her body, but back then it was something special to me that I got to see her naked, and I am a little insecure and get jealous.
Now as time goes on she starts talking about how I stopped her that night. Then it slowly turns into stuff like: I would go topless right now, but you won’t let me. I hear that all the time. Forget that while we were living in England we went on a cruise, she went topless a fair bit, and I never complained once. I rather enjoyed it. Now she blames me for every single “missed” opportunity to get a little crazy.
So, the day before my stunt I let her know that I was taking the day off. She said that we should do something scary as the adrenalin rush is supposed to help the connection between people. So we ended up joking about driving around town naked, with her mooning people. I never expected her to moon people, although I would have laughed my ass off. So we are out, getting ready to come home, and taking the advice of a buddy of mine, I got naked to surprise her. I guess it really was an in your face thing, but I am tired of her blaming me for everything. I wanted to show her that I can walk the walk.
In the end I know she would blame me for: wrong timing, I would have freaked out if she got naked, I’m no fun, I would have ruined it, etc. She still continues to tell everyone that she has no problem showing off her breasts, though she never does.
The stupid thing is, now she expects me to be the most outgoing lover in the world, feeling completely safe and trusting with her, when she ripped to threads any bit of confidence I did have in the bedroom.
Have you said this too her?
Keep up with standing up for yourself. I know, you shouldnt have to, but do not let her be disrespectful. There is a big differrence between her telling you what she needs and her just being brutal to you. Nip this in the bud immediately everytime.
ex Corey: listen. I understand you have a greivance, but there is NO need to speak to me like that.
As far as your public nekkid games, I am the last to judge it or criticize it. I really thought your stunt was misapplied, but hilarious. However, I think your W is 'testing' you on this too though. She is your W so I wouldnt encourage her to escalate this type of stuff at all. Her attitude comes off very attention seeking. There is a big diff between going topless in Riviera and skinny dipping with all your buds. Dont speak to her from a place of insecurity do it from a position of it being disrespectful to you.
This is MO. Seems people have to learn this the hard way. Its not about being nekkid, its her attitude. The reason I specifically think this is she is always talking about it to 'titilate' whoever is in the group, but never acting. She is your W not a trophy to flaunt. Protect what is yours, but dont be insecure.
Oh stop saying she is LD with me. Try saying she is LD because of the state of our R. That gives you something to work on, without hacking at your selfesteem.
I can understand the tuned into each other bit. It is going to take a lot of practice for me to be able to keep the flirting/energy cranked up for a number of days running though. Especially since there is not a lot coming back my direction. For a long time in our relationship now she has been very flirtatious and making promises when we are somewhere that she cannot follow through. As soon as we get home there are a million other things to do and then she is not in the mood anymore. I’m not sure I have the energy to try flirting for three days with only a slight possibility of ML at the end.
I guess I am doing a bit of pouting right now. I feel as though I have been trying very hard in our R for a while now (though a lot of that was spent speaking the wrong LL). Now that I am speaking hers, it feels that she is only putting in a minimal effort. She is still on the fence enough that I don’t want to push her too hard yet, but it is dragging me down.
Quote: I’m not sure I have the energy to try flirting for three days with only a slight possibility of ML at the end.
Here's the caveat... if you are only flirting to GET something from her, the flirting is going to come across as fake and manipulative. Your vibe will be all off, and she will pick up on it.
This is called Barter and Trade. I do this for you in exchange for you giving something to me. There is nothing wrong with barter and trade, per se... if you are upfront and honest about it... but if you are trying to come across as 'your response doesn't matter to me,' when in fact it does... then all you are doing is being dishonest.
I understand your pouting and frustation. And you are still very much in the 'what am **I getting** out of this' mode. Don't blame you. BTDT.
Having said that, though... it doesn't get you anywhere you want to be.
What I am seeing here is that us Guys are to focus on meeting our wives needs 24/7 for days on end while the LD women only has to focus on the relationship for 5 minutes when they finally do get together for sex. He must meet her needs UNCONDITIONALLY while she will only meet his needs when X,Y, and Z get done, in effect, CONDITIONALLY.
What needs to happen is that BOTH parties must meet their spouses needs UNCONDITIONALLY, and they BOTH must do this at ALL times. Am I wrong here? And I am not talking about sex 24/7, I am talking about ALL the actions the LD spouse should be doing, like touching, flirting, kissing, cuddling, etc.. The LD spouse can not just focus on things once every week. They have to focus on it 24/7 just like the HD spouse.
