I love autumn!

[koshka]

Happy Monday to one and all!

A week ago XW showed up around 5:30 (transfer time is 6:00) and the kids were still playing on the trampoline. I sent S7 to get his stuff ready to leave, and I told him to get his shoes. He grabbed a pair of shoes which I bought him this summer. They have laces.

XW asked him to get his shoes later, and he said, "They're in the trunk," referring to the back of her truck. She loaded some of D11's stuff after that.

Yesterday, I showed up at her place a couple minutes before six. I rang the doorbell and waited at the door because I had parked my car across the street from her place. I didn't want the kids, especially S7, to run across the street when they came out. When I can park on her side, I go back to my car and wait, since no one ever answers the door.

S7 was the first one out, about five after six. With no shoes. I asked him where his shoes were, thinking maybe they were in his backpack. He got angry and started yelling at me, "You kept my good shoes!" (He left a pair with zippers instead of laces at home last week. XW bought those.)

Who tells a kid stuff like that? They were parked in front of my house five mornings last week, S7 got off the bus in front of my house five afternoons while S14 and his house key were waiting there with XMIL, I saw XW at the high school open house. If there were a real problem with his shoes, there were many opportunities to solve it. Instead, she sends him home barefoot and angry.

Vent over.

Thanks,

Joe

[kml]

Joe -
You seem surprised, as if you're not dealing with a completely wacko passive-aggressive self-centered nutcase of an ex. Had you forgotten? Cheeseless tunnel, my friend, to wonder about all her inappropriate behaviors.

(I'm reminded of Mal's exH, who had an obsession with socks - as in, their 9 year old son would lose socks and it must be Mal's fault - as if 9 year old boys don't lose socks all the time! We all told her that if she gave us his address, we would all send her ex packages of socks! I would have loved to have seen his face if we had done that - imagine random packages of boys socks arriving from all over the country ).

Ellie

[Dmsw4]

Just remember Joe that kids don't have an edit button. Maybe he likes the zipper shoes better just because they are easier to put on. My D7 loves a shirt she found at Goodwill...it most certainly is not a "good" shirt by any means, but to her, it's the best. Give yourself a break and explain to S7 that if he feels so strongly about the shoes, that he needs to make sure he has them with him when he goes to Mom's house or comes back home to you. Explain that Dad cannot always remember to pack specific items. "I need you to help me remember what it is you want when you go to stay with mom."

When H sent me a list of items he wanted me to pack for the girls during a 2 week visit, at first I was ticked off...now I use it as my guideline. Takes the pressure off of me, he gets what he wants, and I don't have to make up a list. Also, if something is not included, it's not my fault. he he

I remember not too long ago, we all had to go somewhere, a practice for D9's concert. D7 got to the school and had NO shoes. I found a pair of my sandals in the van. She complained about having to wear my shoes...well then honey, next time you get in the van, make sure you have some shoes on

[Glenda_aka_kc]

Joe, 7 year olds are so easily swayed, especially in a situation they do not like. I always blamed myself...i.e, I must have been an awful kid for my parents to not want me but my grandparents NEVER talked about the situation. That is obviously not the case in S7's situation so he has something he doesn't like compounded by whatever your XW is saying. Sounds like he is likely to be her pawn for a long time.

A list for packing might be a good idea. I might even go a step further and laminate it so you (he) can use one of those white board markers to check things off and it can be wiped off for use the next time. You could make two, even -- one for your house and one for XW's. She might not use it or let S7 use it at her house but ...

Just food for thought.

Glenda

[koshka]

Ellie,

You seem surprised, as if you're not dealing with a completely wacko passive-aggressive self-centered nutcase of an ex.

That gets right to something that's been on my mind for the last couple days. This is where friends like you can help me so much.

It's like there's something in me that wants to believe she can do better. She got the D she said she wanted, she's free to chase any guy she wants, so now she'll leave me alone, treat the kids at least with respect, right? Time and again, she proves me wrong.

I need to figure out why I keep expecting something she just can't or won't give. I have to stop that, because it is the most cheeseless of tunnels.

And what was it that attracted me to her in the first place? I had some kind of "soul mate" feeling when I first saw her that I never felt with anyone else before, and I'll run away screaming if I ever get that feeling again!

Seriously, I'm trying to learn what went wrong. How did I get so entangled with someone so unhealthy and why? I've heard from the kids that XW reads some self help books, but it seems that she uses them to justify her past behaviors. 'Course, I'm not doing any better by writing about what she does, am I?


Barb,

Give yourself a break and explain to S7 that if he feels so strongly about the shoes, that he needs to make sure he has them with him when he goes to Mom's house or comes back home to you.

He didn't care about the shoes. At least when he left here, he didn't. He grabbed the ones with laces when XW showed up early and he wasn't yet ready to go.

She sent him out to me on Sunday in his bare feet. The shoes he had worn over to her house were shoes he picked when he was packing. They were shoes I had purchased for him at the start of school. Why is she keeping them and sending him out barefoot? Something's just not right with that. And if she wanted "her shoes" back, then why not say something during the week? She's parked outside my door every morning, Mon-Fri when the kids are with her.

I think she told him he would have to go barefoot because "Dad kept your good shoes," or some such.


Glenda,

Sounds like he is likely to be her pawn for a long time.

I hope not. She messed with his life more than enough when she kept him away from home so long. Kids are resilient, but this guy's going through a wringer with this kind of crap.

A list for packing might be a good idea. I might even go a step further and laminate it so you (he) can use one of those white board markers to check things off and it can be wiped off for use the next time.

Yeah, Barb's on to something there. And the laminated version would work well for D11, as well. I made her an after school schedule like that once.

I don't know about making another copy for XW's house, though. S7 had a homework assignment to decorate a sign for his "homework place" when he was last at home. I made a copy of the uncolord original and the instructions which I gave to XW last week, since our kitchen table isn't his "homework place" when he's at her house. Last night I found it in his backpack.


From the "Why can't we have an update instead of some more venting?" department:

I took D11 clothes shopping tonight because the weather will turn quite a bit cooler in a day or two and she had no long sleeve stuff here. I heard her complain that "Mom doesn't even work full time and she can still take me to the mall to go to Aeropostale." I explained to her that "Mom" gets paid vacation time, "Mom" gets paid holidays, "Mom" has tenants paying her each month, while I paid for her camps (almost $1,000 this summer, more if you count the riding clothes I bought in the spring), I pay for her pets' care, and I don't work full time unless I can put in a Saturday and sometimes a holiday. (I worked on the Fourth of July and the following Saturday and covered my hours then. But Labor Day the kids were here, so I was short this past pay period.)

So when we got back home, she made two calls to XW to gripe about me. I wouldn't mind letting her clothes shop with her mother if she were bringing the clothes back home, but when XW won't pay her share of medical bills and sends S7 home barefoot, I'd have to be pretty stupid to send money for a clothes shopping trip.

Sunday, I'm gonna have me a beer!

Thanks,

Joe

[kml]

And what was it that attracted me to her in the first place? I had some kind of "soul mate" feeling when I first saw her that I never felt with anyone else before, and I'll run away screaming if I ever get that feeling again!

Probably just one of those pheromone things that told your primitive brain that her genes would mix well with yours - and aren't your darling healthy children proof of that?

I've heard from the kids that XW reads some self help books, but it seems that she uses them to justify her past behaviors. 'Course, I'm not doing any better by writing about what she does, am I?

Well, I think it helps you to figure out how to avoid such a "soulmate" in the future, plus people give you practical tips on dealing with her in the present.

So when we got back home, she made two calls to XW to gripe about me.

Hmmm...mayu just be a girly thing, that she wants to clothes shop with her mom? Do you maybe have a female friend or relative or teenage babysitter you could send her out shopping with? Maybe she would like that better (and hey, you wouldn't have to sit in the dreaded "outside-the-dressing-room-chair" - boy did I hate that shopping with my D! I'm a bad shopper. I prefer shopping with S14 - he goes to the computer, pulls up what he wants, fills out the order, I come over to input my credit card info, and we're done!!!)

[Underdog]

Joe,

Just some food for thought on D11's gripe call to her mom... when I was her age, I was looking out for #1 99% of the time--at any cost. I worked my parents (who were and are still married to each other) over pretty good. When I felt I could get away with something, I attempted to work over the weaker parent. Most of the time, it didn't work--and only because my parents were batting for the same team. Some of the time it did, and I created trouble for them. I wasn't alone, because my friends and siblings did it too. So it should be no surprise that I complained about one parent to the other--attempting to get them to do my bidding because the mean parent wouldn't see things my way.

What I'm trying to say is that while D11's behavior is normal, it's unfortunate that XW sees her gripes as "the truth about Joe". Perhaps a little unwarranted retaliation on her part will get D11 to see how ugly this might play out and invoke a little guilt? I don't know. But try not to see this as something personal, because my recollection as a kid says it's not about you but about them getting to fanagle a situation to work out to their benefit.

It's like there's something in me that wants to believe she can do better. She got the D she said she wanted, she's free to chase any guy she wants, so now she'll leave me alone, treat the kids at least with respect, right? Time and again, she proves me wrong.

While I can't help but wonder why she can't leave you alone now that she got her D, I agree with you and Ellie that it's cheeseless. We could probably wonder why she chooses to engage with you this way, but I doubt we'd be able to solve it.

I hope you don't think I'm harping on you, Joe. I think you have a tough go with her. You've given her the path she clearly wanted, so why isn't that enough? (((((Joe)))))

But the simple fact is it looks like she's going to make a career out of making you look like a schmuck. The only thing you can do is to make sure that you don't act like a schmuck and continue to hold your head high and be the great dad you are and keep on keeping on. From what I know about your kids, they don't *want* to cast you in a negative light. That has to count for something. You may not see anything concrete to tell you either way for quite some time, so just do what you know you need and want to do and things will work out the way they are supposed to work out.

Just so you know I mean it, I think your XW is behaving like a schmuck. Anyone who chooses to martyr their kids to make themselves look good gets that label in my book. But that won't change anything in your world.

The best thing you could possibly do is to be the best Joe you know how to be--no matter what she chooses to do or say. The truth cannot be refuted. At least where it counts.

Hugs,

Betsey

[Delboy]

Hi Joe, Just my take on your quote: Seriously, I'm trying to learn what went wrong. How did I get so entangled with someone so unhealthy and why? Joe I think it's to do with the crap you endured in your childhood where you were abused by people you trusted. It just went into your subconscious. So when somebody you trusted started to abuse you you thought nothing of it because it had become so ingrained in you.

In the past I put up with a lot of sh!t as well because of the stuff I was exposed to in my childhood. But I won't put up with crap from anyone,now I have clearer boundaries.


Love Delboy,

And may God bless you and your children

[koshka]

Ellie,

Probably just one of those pheromone things that told your primitive brain that her genes would mix well with yours - and aren't your darling healthy children proof of that?

I feel safer with that than with the "neatly-dovetailing dysfunctions" theory that's dominated my thinking. Pheremones I can live with but continued dysfunction would be a show stopper!

Hmmm...mayu just be a girly thing, that she wants to clothes shop with her mom? Do you maybe have a female friend or relative or teenage babysitter you could send her out shopping with

It's more her wanting to complain and knowing who'd want to listen, I think.

I don't have any family within about 200+ miles or I'd try to send her shopping with one of my sisters. In a few months I should be able to let her have a mall shopping trip, but it still won't become our SOP.


Betsey,

What I'm trying to say is that while D11's behavior is normal, it's unfortunate that XW sees her gripes as "the truth about Joe".

I worry more about how D11 feels than what reaction XW will have. I don't feel very good about mentioning money to D11 because I know how XW used that to scare S14 last year ("Say 'goodbye' to that house, your father can't afford to keep it.") till he was losing sleep over it.

Someday they'll see what's happened from their adult perspectives. What's truly important is how well I can act in line with my beliefs, i.e., as I should. I know you're not fond of that word, but it serves me very well in that meaning.

From what I know about your kids, they don't *want* to cast you in a negative light. That has to count for something.

It does. I read Michele's post to Barb and was remembering how I used to tell the kids that XW loved them. S14 would fly into a rage, telling me how "she doesn't care about us" and talking of her trying to "bribe" him, etc.

When I stopped saying things like that, he stopped showing so much anger toward her. Possibly mere co-inky-dink, but I wonder if losing the motivation to "prove his point" allowed him to work on defining a new R with her. I don't believe he's even begun to deal with that anger, but he's not lashing out at people around him over it now.

The best thing you could possibly do is to be the best Joe you know how to be--no matter what she chooses to do or say. The truth cannot be refuted. At least where it counts.

Thanks! Simple enough that even I can remember it. Not always easy to put into action, but still pretty simple when I do.


Delboy! Long time, no see. Thanks for dropping in again!

Joe I think it's to do with the crap you endured in your childhood where you were abused by people you trusted.

I don't want to go too far with this here, but I have noticed "sets" of traits in her and a particular someone else from my childhood. So there's a lot of truth in what you say.


Update:

Did I mention I'll be having a beer on Sunday? I might make it two.

I slept in till something to six Tuesday morning. That left S14 less time than usual to get out to his bus stop, but he got more sleep than usual, too. As S7 was leaving to start his day, he called to me, "Dad, there's blood."

There was. A trail of blood from the sidewalk into the bushes in front of my bedroom window. I couldn't see any kitties in the bushes, and I wondered if somebody had killed a "treat" like a mole and was hiding with it. But I was worried that maybe one of the cats was hurt, so we tried calling for them until the kids' bus showed up.

After the kids left, I saw some more blood on the driveway. And on the porch. And a lot near the porch swing where one particular cat, one of D11's, likes to sit. So I spent another twenty minutes or so calling for her, since she was not one who'd appeared for breakfast. Finally I headed off to work.

My car started overheating on the way to work. I had replaced the thermostat earlier this year, but apparently that wasn't the problem, or at least not the whole problem. I left work early so I could get to the shop and have it checked with time remaining to get a rental if I needed one.

Well, I needed one. The car is in today to replace the water pump. I wanted a compact car for the rental, and they suggested they had an intermediate. By the time I got over there, I was "elegible for a complimentary upgrade" and I got a minivan. I guess people are very concious of the gas prices these days, but I took the $8 option to bring the car back with any amount of gas. I know how fast $8 will go in that van; it's a later model of the van we had.

I came home and asked the kids if they had seen our missing kitty. They took a look outside and found her. I scooped her up and brought her inside. When she leaned against the wall, she stained it with her blood. So I called the vet, and they said they couldn't see her last night, but gave me the number for an emergency vet in a neighboring county. I told them I can't afford that, and we have an appointment for 9 this morning.

Nine o'clock. Here in the county. After which I can bring kitty back home for her quarantine. The rental is due back at 3:30, which means I will have to leave work by around 2:00. Looks like another fun filled day full of billable hours to pay the vet!

Yesterday was the kind of day you say, "Someday we'll look back on this and laugh." Except post-D, there isn't anyone to share that.

'Course, I'm still going to look back and laugh.

The kids loved riding in the van. "This is where the stuffed animals were, 'cause I always sat here." "This was always full of pencils and crap." "They were my colored pencils." It was nice to hear them talking about it. They seemed really happy to reminisce.

So they're off to school now and I'm off to the vet.

Thanks,

Joe

[Underdog]

Okay, so how is the kitty?