BI - please pick up "What Happy People Know" by Dan Baker. This book changed my life, and I am going to read it many times over.
Basically, your perspective on life and your situation is your own. It's your choice to view it as good, bad, non-existant, omni-present, etc. Or, at the very least, it's up to you to judge the facts and events as you will. It seems you are pessimistic right now. Change this. The best way to do so is to appreciate something whenever you are down. Appreciate the opportunity to be down if you have to. It WILL change your experience, and we all know that if you change so will the R. Try it - work on this discipline for yourself. Oh yeah, pick up that book too!
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
yeah, i guess i have been whining today. sorry about that. i should stop b*tching, but I'm frustrated and it sucks. and when he asks what's wrong? etc and bombards me in that way, it's not a good thing. he says it like i'm a fat PITA, as in 'what's the f-ing matter NOW?'. It does not come from a place of compassion.
We had a nice little blowout today, each of us sorely disappointed in the other's 'efforts' in our R. Will try to summarize when i'm less spent over it. Jee-sus, i want to quit some days. the pain just goes on and on and fcuking ON.
He is the poster child for detachment and GAL-ing. It's the way he's built; he doesn't 'need' me at all, and right now I need to be needed. just a little bit.
i went outside and cried and cried, feeling lost, left out, hurt, lonely. he sat right inside the window and checked his email. talk about crickets chirping.
i want a man who will hold me when i cry. even when he is the cause of my pain. hell, especially when. he used to hold me when i was sad.
not today.
Forget the former things; do not dwell on the past. See, I am doing a new thing! Is 43:18-19
If it seems slow in coming, wait. It's on its way. It will come right on time. Hab 2:3
BI, I don't think he can get to that compassionate place yet. I think he might be in a place where he's wondering what he made the choice for, where the good is in this relationship. I think you both need to focus on the positives that ARE there, because there are plenty, and not on what you'd like to see there, or rather the absence of the fantasy good that you're looking for, and displeased that you're not seeing. Make sense? That's probably a record run-on! You NEED to have fun together - this whole ordeal is so stressful that everything seems like it's under this cloud and you BOTH are looking for a way out of this situation. I think now you both recognize that this situation isn't the M, but it's up to you to start seeing what the M IS (and inject a little of the spin you'd like to see on it) and start acting as if, and moving towards this.
You know, what you said about "I want a man who..."? Well, I have thought a few times about this - when I got married I gave up the right to want someone who is different. I mean, the time for finding the "right" type of person is over, so what's the use in wanting what you can't have (not that your husband can't be what you want -he just isn't there right now)? I once read something very wise - "the secret to happiness is not getting what you want, but wanting what you have." This is really what we control. This focus on appreciation really inspires happiness and joy, and that is the basis of a good relationship.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't want him to hold you - I'm sure he will once things get better - but to dwell on it hurts you, and your hurt hurts him. When he sees your hurt he has a couple of choices: he gets defensive (and part of his defense mechanism might be to shut you out completely - the "I don't care" approach), it might be to try and fix everything, or something else entirely. I think that he's not in a place where he can face his contribution to your pain yet. I don't think he's forgiven himself, and therefore his defense is to defend himself from his guilt, trivializing your pain, and not taking responsibility for any part in creating or helping you through it. Forgive him again, and let go of it yourself. After all, I think a big part of your renewed pain is a cry for action from him. You don't want to be in pain, do you? Manage your emotions, let him manage his, and continue to be patient, working on that which you can control. Be more concerned with YOUR contribution to the M than his. When you can fight about how you both are not satisfied with your own work on the M, you'll be in the right place!
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
Muddled, that was the smartest thing I've heard all day.
BI, I'm also looking for some solace that my H just isnt' ready to give me. The most I could do last week after the "discovery" was to ask him to hold me, and it made me feel so good. Damn it, go ahead ask, just to hold you for a little while, it did wonders to me.
Remember, even before this mess, our Hs weren't exactly dr. Phil when it came to dealing with our feelings, so now it's a double whammy and they are clueless at SOME degree.
Let's look at the few pearls we have among this muck honey, sending you a big hug tonight)))))))))))))))))))
Be not afraid...I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten Joel2
30something 2kids survivor of S, MLC, A, D I have peace in my heart, at last.
Speaking from one man's perspective, it's REALLY hard for me to understand that my W may want me to hold her when she's upset, especially if she's upset AT ME. Sometimes I think this is one of the WORST places where women expect a man to read her mind. If my W could just find it within herself to just TELL me what she needs, I would be totally disarmed and not defensive/angry at all, which I almost ALWAYS was before all this happened. Then, in the course of the R talks we have had, I find out that all this time, all my W wanted was for me to hold her when she was crying/upset. She needed that from me and I gave her the opposite, not because I wanted to hurt her, or deny her what she wanted, but because stupidly, like most men, I thought what she wanted was for me to fix her. In fact, that was the farthest thing from what she wanted but she NEVER TOLD ME THAT, ESPECIALLY IN THE MOMENT. I suppose that is too much to ask for, but again, the one man's opinion is that if my W EVER just said "could you just hold me instead of trying to fix me?" I would have melted to her.
All I ever wanted, no matter how it came out, no matter how angry, aggressive, p/a, defensive, etc. I was towards my W when she was upset, was to do right by her, to "fix her" but most of all, to be what she needed at the time. I just never knew, even after all these years, that all she needed was a hug.
BI, all I am saying to you is to be SURE your H understands what you want from him. I can't say he's anything like me, or that I am anything like most men, but from what I have read and experienced, this idea that men try most everything else BUT simply, quietly, being there for a woman in the form of a hug/embrace, is almost universal.
Tell the man what you want, simply, in the moment and then let him give it to you if he's capable. If he's not, don't punish him for it, but also don't keep trying get it once he's demonstrated unwillingness or the lack of ability to meet your needs.
One last time, when I feel like I am the cause of my W's angst, and that is a LOT since another truism about men is that we often think our W's world revolves around us and they can't POSSIBLY be upset unless WE caused it, I can't IMAGINE what she really wants is for me to hold her. Even two nights ago, after her telling me that all these years, she just wanted me to hold her when she was upset, I found it damn near impossible to break through my fear/misunderstanding and just stop talking long enough to do it. When I did, she was asleep within 10 minutes. I swear, it still seems like a miracle I will never understand.
BI Hey, girl-- thanks for stopping by my thread. I agree, i think we WERE separated at birth!
You've gotten some really great advice here. Esp. about TELLing your H you want to be held.
the thing that came to my mind also was, what if you told him you'd like to start from the beginning again? you are both new and different people now. start a new R as if you didn't know the old, clean the slate, no expectations, etc. and date. talk. share thoughts not of your R and how you'd like it to improve, but what you'd like your life to be like...dreams and hopes for the future.
i think sometimes we keep trying to fit the new round peg person into the old square hole they used to fill and we end up wasting so much time adjusting, chipping away, squeezing and prodding. maybe sometimes its just easier to start new and fresh?
You could still talk about what you liked before and want to carry over, but no accusations-real or implied-i.e. learning to trust again which refers back to the loss of trust before (blaming). Make sense?
just my thoughts.
course, i'm no where near that yet. H finally made the lawyer appt for next thursday, then said, well, even then it'll be months before its final. Meaning he still has time to bail or change his mind? who knows.
Quote: H finally made the lawyer appt for next thursday, then said, well, even then it'll be months before its final. Meaning he still has time to bail or change his mind? who knows.
My H would say the very SAME thing jac! he'd say "well, we have 12 mths to work it out", then again he'd say it over and over thinking that maybe that made me feel better? I finally had to tell him during a MC session that I just didnt' want to hear the word D unless it was a sure thing, he was taken by surprise and stop mentioning it, eventually he dropped the lawyer.
Be not afraid...I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten Joel2
30something 2kids survivor of S, MLC, A, D I have peace in my heart, at last.
Thank you guys so much for stopping by; I am continually humbled and thankful for this community of people that holds each other up no matter what. It's been such a blessing to me to have you on 'standby' and willing to step in to comfort, or slap, me as needed.
After muuuuuuch gnashing of teeth last night, we had a decent denoument to the discussion. Here's the weird thing I had for my take-away lession from H. He is all about needing Affirmation (which is different than his prior #1 need of Acts of Service). So, I've been AOS-ing him more (prepping his coffee in the a.m., little stuff like that I never worried with before), which is still good. But I've also been trying to affirm him, yet IN THE WRONG AREA.
I've been thanking him for what a great dad he is, how I couldn't do my job without all his help at home, how much I appreciate the little things he's done to surprise me (he bought me new nursing scrubs and some cool Keen sandals I've wanted), things I appreciate/admire about him. About him being a good man in general, or things he does.
Well he doesn't want THAT, he wants me to acknowledge his efforts in THE R (which is way harder to do, b/c it's more vague & our perspectives are different about it): to thank him for spending time with me talking about his day when he never did that before. He still doesn't do much of it now, IMO, but apparently HE VIEWS it as a large amount of time and effort.
If I would give him more positive affirmation in that area, he says, he would feel safer moving toward me. Gosh, it sounds so damned simple and stupid writing it down here but it really is a tad more complex than it looks.
Anyway, it seems so REPETITIVE (apparently I need a Relationship Conversation Thesaurus, b/c I don't know how to say the same thing over and over w/out sounding like a fem-bot). He is really hung up on how he will come upstairs and will tell me about his day, or what's going on with work (he doesn't do this as much as he thinks, but I digress), and how it's more than he used to do pre-A and wants to be acknowledged/affirmed for that.
I just sent him an email tonight thanking him for sharing about some tee-tiny issue going on with the school board, but it feels dumb to me and again repetitive. Affirmation Vocabulary 101 anyone?
Regardless, my point was that I was thanking him/validating him/ appreciating him in the WRONG area for HIM to feel affirmed. I will sound like a 3rd grader if I have to and thank and affirm him every bloody time he shares/spends time with me, even for a minute. I am determined for him to be OVER-affirmed, if that's possible. I just cringe when I don't have an arsenal of variety to say.
And then he got on his soapbox about him spending time with me, b/c isn't that what I WANT? Well, again, he's shooting blanks b/c he's trying in the WRONG direction for ME at this point. I need more than watching an episode of "24" once a week, and an H who will not come to bed with me at the same time, even if God on High came down to tell him to. I need physical touch like nobody's business, especially now.
And I said to H point blank, this whole affair plays right into my triggers (rejection, left-out, unworthy, less-than) and he of all people should know that (from my FOO/childhood).
The fact that we were in an SSM pre-A, and I'm thinking it's mostly H's problem (low SD, his FOO issues, or whatever), then he has an A (requiring time, effort, and passion) so gosh, no, it must be ME (see above negative adjectives)...
...he leaves OW and returns to the M, but we continue to have an SSM? WTF? where did all of his passion/emotions go? They surfaced, I witnessed them, you can't deny you have them. It's like the Lost Colony: poof! disappeared. <insert suicidal tendencies here> j/k
Anyway, that's the take-home from last night's weepfest. All perspectives (and affirmation catchphrases) welcome.
Forget the former things; do not dwell on the past. See, I am doing a new thing! Is 43:18-19
If it seems slow in coming, wait. It's on its way. It will come right on time. Hab 2:3
