I don't know how to link the site, nor am I sure whether it is allowed by this forum. However, if you post your e-mail, I'll forward you one of their newsletters.
WOW! I am humbled. Truly. I have been away for so long yet my friends still are here supporting me. THANK YOU ALL!!!!
So much great advice. All of you. I would like to take time and make individual replies, but I feel an update will bring you all up to speed.
Coffee was fine, nothing major, all about the kids schedules. I tried to turn it to other topics, just general, no go. She stuck to what the counselor offered. I said she looked wonderful as we parted ways. She said thank you.
We went to second session yesterday. It was a barnburner. Let me preface that I had PO'd my wife on Sunday by asking her to have dinner, if she was open to it with me and the boys. This was answered with a no, she was gong to SIL. I made a flirtatious comment about a visit after that, in jest. That sent her over the deep end but agreed to call me back later in the night and talk about us. No call!
So in counseling the C started with me. She asked what I wanted to come from this session, I said really nothing. I have come to the conclusion that I am unable to hold onto her or this marriage anymore, I looked at my W and said you are free from me and this marriage. The C looked right at her and said "Mrs. F4W" your husband is saying he cannot do this anymore and you are free to end this marriage, what is it you want to do?" W answered she did not know. W started in on the topic of my style and commnunication needs. We had a briefly heated discussion and I stated "W you would be just happy if I never communicatied with you again unless it was about kids schedules" To this she agreed, C made her phrase it to me and look me in the eyes 3 times until she got it right. We did a projection excercise and my wife came up with projecting her disappointment with me early in our marriage by emabrrassing her in public. I recall the event and apologized. My projection was my diappointment in her not respecting my feelings and integrity and continually breaking her word to me. I broke down and started to cry. I was at that point very vulnerable and being honest. C quickly asked W what she was feeling at this time. She broke down crying. Saying she hated to see me in such pain, that she feels bad for creating this but really is just numb, cannot find love for anything. C kept going, she stated that since W was so unsure about herself, her emotions, could not definitively say whether she did or did not love me, that she should enter into IC and work on fixing herself. W agreed. C went on to say that in her opinion, W needed to seriously rethink the D, that if she can fix herself, then she should at that time re-invest in me and the marriage, that 15 years of investment is too much to throw away. Wife said nothing, but continued to cry.
C turned to me, said "F4W, you have a decision to make, your W is not ready to continue this M, you have to live each day making a decision. That decision is will you stay and wait or will you move on. This is your decision only. You cannot base this on her or her issues. What will you do?" I looked at my W, and I said "There is nothing I have said or worte in the past year about my feelings that is not true. You are the one for me. You are the woman I love beyond anything else. I will wait, for a while. I do fear that by letting you go I will eventually have to look in the mirror one day and tell myself "You cannot love her anymore" and that scares the hell out of me."
C picked up from there and said both of you need IC, W to do deep counseling to find our why she shys away from being vulnerable, and without being vulnerable she will never be able to have an intimate relationship with me or anyone else. That the pattern she has developed will never cease. To me she said I need support C to deal with my pain and sadness. We agreed. She said I will see you in 2 weeks.
I have not spoken to W in two days. I had to call today because of my time with kids starts today. It was fine. She had called 4 times on my cell yesterday but I never answered. I cannot right now. I am unsure and scared. I am doing fine. I do feel like I have now amputated a diseased part of my body and am looking at the wound. But I know that I have to let go and continue my journey alone, for the moment.
Again to all SA, DER, OC, Purdy, 2nd, and Corri, thanks, I love you all!
F4W
Through honest giving of my love I will recieve 10 fold in return.
Just because a person does not love you in the way you want, does not mean they do not love you!
F4W, That’s okay. I figured either you thought my advice sucked OR you just forgot me. Either was okay because I’m not too sensitive about stuff like that However I do appreciate you taking the time to add me
I think your counselor has some good ideas. I would be encouraged that you gave your wife an opening to call things over in front of the counselor (safe place in case she feels you will be too emotional) and she couldn’t do it. And if your wife is willing to go the IC route, I think there is some real hope!! Now you can back off and truly work on F4W. Are you still running, golfing, GALing??
You need to work on yourself and be strong because I think she will be going through some rough times in IC and if (when?) she is ready and willing to be vulnerable, you’ll need to be her rock!
Take care
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
Ha. I never think you advice sucks and I truly did feel bad about forgeting you!
Sound advice again. I do not kknow how many days it has been since counseling, I try not to count anymore, but I still do not feel right. By that there is something picking at me that I cannot identify, like it is on the edge of my conciouness and I cannot quite get it. It does cause me not to sleep very much and when I do my dreams are vivid recollections of times with my wife.
I am just gettiung back into running, I had a terrible torn hamstring july of 05 and when I started in the spring of 06 to run again, this happened. Not much time to golf between work on kids (excuse I know) and GAL is fine. Actually looking for a new hobby to start. Thinking of painting, martial arts, or dance classes. SOmething with flexible and minimal time comittment and not really espensive.
The if and when are things that will be addressed in time. I think the odds are against it, I loive my wife but she is incapable of doing what it will take to face whatever it is in her that cause her to run when she needs to open up. It is her pattern, I hope she can break it, but I know 39 years of a learned behavior is hard to break.
F4W
Through honest giving of my love I will recieve 10 fold in return.
Just because a person does not love you in the way you want, does not mean they do not love you!
Just dropping by to say hello and let you know I am thinking about you.
I have to constantly remind myself how important it is to shape our lives the way we want. Our Ws are so focused on the D that it consumes them. Anytime they think of us - they think of us as in their way and against the D. So it would only be natural that our Ws think of us negatively now - we stand in their way to freedom.
It is not logical, it is not fair, it is not right. But it is where they are at right now.
I pray that we LBSs continue to move forward and that our WASs realize what they are doing and wake up from the destruction they are creating.
WOW, it seems like the old club is here. DER, Truly, F4W, Fearless, Purdy. Hi Folks, F4W sorry to still see you here pal. Our sitch. have been neck to neck the whole time. The 12th of this month is 1.5 years for me. I hate to say it's good to see you all, but honestly I feel somewhat normal and supported when I come here and understand once again that we are all not alone although it truly feels that way some days.
I am really sorry that your MC session went the way it has, but it seems like you have hit it right on the head when you said: I think the odds are against it, I love my wife but she is incapable of doing what it will take to face whatever it is in her that causes her to run when she needs to open up. It is her pattern, I hope she can break it, but I know 39 years of a learned behavior is hard to break.
I know this feeling to well. I know with all of my heart that I love the woman I married, I know I am sorry for the mistakes I made, I know that it was not ALL MY FAULT.
My EX (wow that still is tough) still cannot learn to forgive me or herself. She still is controlling and pushes the guilt trips; she still wants to see OM as friends and wants me around when she wants it. There is no real R between us, has not been any ML in --- wow I can’t remember, I think before Christmas last year.
Your statements about being scared to admit or come to the point of not loving here are completely understood.
There are days I wish I would never love my WAW again, and there I days I still break down and want to hold her. When we are close it hurts because she has told me she has no desire for me in any way but she still loves me but not in love with me. It is hard to believe the person you spent half your life with can’t and won’t hold you.
But you are correct, they want us to change, yet they see no reason to break their own habits and do not recognize the damage that their behavior does.
There is a song out right now by the “wreckers” called “leave the pieces” and it goes: You're not sure that you love me, But you're not sure enough to let me go. Baby it ain't fair, You know you just keep me hanging round. You say you don't wanna hurt me, Don't wanna see my tears. So why are you still standing here Just watching me drown?
I realized with the support of a lot of people here and a ton of wacks to the head with a board that this is true. Your statement is true. They will not change. She said she hates to see the pain your in, yet she holds the key to relieving that pain. She knows this yet will not do anything about it.
F4W you love your wife as I do mine, I will always love her and honestly would do anything that would make her happy. I spent the last 3 months playing her game. I did not question anything, I worked on her new home remodeling it, I took care of the yard, I cooked, I cleaned, I did her laundry and the kids too at her home - all while doing my own at my home. During this time I never brought up OM, and yes he is still around. I ignored the calls, bit my lips and said nothing, worked my ass of, honestly did brick work till my fingers bled.
Know what I got? First fight we had, she went to him. She would not even give me a kiss good night; I have had better hugs from my dog, and never ever any warmth.
I talked with her and tried to ask (2 months into it) “How are we doing in your eyes”. She freaked, said I was pressuring her and she couldn’t handle it. I explained that I was asking because I cared about her feelings. She told me I should be able to see by her actions (what actions?). I explained to her that I was trying to be a better man; I realized we both spoke different languages and that I was just trying to learn to communicate with her better. Her response – she was uncomfortable with this, felt like it was an advance and was putting to much pressure on her. If I wanted it to work I needed to back off and give her more space. It was ok if I came over and worked on her house, but she would like me to leave when she got home so she could relax and not feel pressured. I should understand this. Also that my pressure was not helping her forgive things like the comment I made 13 years ago one night at dinner when I was kidding around and “HUMILIATED” her in front of everyone.
You wrote: By that there is something picking at me that I cannot identify, like it is on the edge of my conciouness and I cannot quite get it. It does cause me not to sleep very much and when I do my dreams are vivid recollections of times with my wife.
This picking at you is called love, it is also the guilt she has bestowed upon you. No matter what you will always and forever love the woman you fell in love with, I know this feeling too. Try to remember this, you never gave up. You did not quit, by telling her you could not go on this way, you acknowledged her feelings as well. That is why you were there at MC, YOU CAN NOT CONTINUE THIS. You really need to sleep, live, smile, and try.
Take the advice the MC is giving you and so many gave me, at this point let her deal with her issues. Amazingly enough they find out that leaving did not solve these issues, it did not get better, and they are still depressed. Until she faces the fact that she is not happy with herself, she will never be with you. You cannot change that, neither can the MC, she needs 1 on 1 C. And you do too, it’s not a bad thing and your not a bad guy, you’re here trying to fix what you thought went wrong. Where is she?
Hang in there friend….
I am going to win her back! It may take longer then I want, but it's worth it.
:: Update - I want to win me back, I am worth it!!!
However I do appreciate you taking the time to add me