Landing in this forum after 1.5 years

[blackfoot]

2nd chance.
just read your post.


agree with some, disagree, obviously, from my previous post on others.

so stuff I agree with. ILY, giving S P A C E, GAL, not being slef righteous, creative. "yet you tell her "that you're willing to work on the M, but she is not" (essentially blaming her)". agreed. I believe she was working on it. She will again, and actually IS still in it because she is not indifferent and has not WA. The whole las paragraph.

stuff I differ with.

"you'll continue to support her", yet you continue to disagree with her decision and feelings

supporting her by being loving, kind, not emotionally or verbally abusive, does not mean being a doormat. He doesnt have to agree with her on everything or anything for that matter.

You state that you do not hate her, yet you also state that you "did not like her right now".

Even if he said he hated her, if it was coming from a place of honesty and truth, it would be much better then smiling at her subserviantly while trying to curry her favor thru more lies such as saying..... you've come to the conclusion that you're the one to blame; that it's all your fault. And that the least you can do is making everything possible so that she can be happy

NO. This is so incongruent and not pysch healthy for either one of them. Nothing good will come from lies.

how impressd you are with her for having the courage to finally file; for being brave enough take action and putting a stop to that unhappy sitch that both of you have had to endure all these years. That even though you will miss the nice times you had together in the past, that you are nontheless "proud" of her actions
Sheesh. a couple phrases arent bad but the overall emphasis is on getting a D and that it is a positive thing and something to be proud off? that they were both so incapable of stepping away from their self righteousness long enough to pull together? contradictive imagary and more incongruence.

ok feel free to rebut. the last word is yours.

[Santhony]

F4W-

I am glad others can offer some more insight into your stich (blackfoot, DonH, cobra, et al). It all seems like really wise advice with points and counter points - in the end it really makes you think. It made me think alot about what I might have to prepare for.

You are at a different place in your stich than I, so I didn't feel like I could offer much advice (heck I can't even keep my sitch under control

So given I don't have much advice, I just wanted to show support - let you know I am praying for you. But some on this thread seem like they have some nice points/different perspectives - which is most welcome by all of us.

God Bless you man! I hope the small positive signs turn into something good for your M.

God Bless,
Santhony

[Fighting4Wife]

2nd Chance: I will post again for you.

Corri:
Thank you for the sympathy.

I am on a fact finding mission, so please bear with me.
Reminds me of Dragnet! "Just the facts maam"

OK

If you got full-custody of your kids, how would you care for them?

Great question. I have spoken with my boss have had my schedule rearranged somewhat and is flexible anyway so I can drop at school and pick up from daycare. I would raise my children no different than I do now, with the exception of helping them cope with the ending of their parents marriage. Corri, for the past several years I have done the bulk of the care of the children and I did so with very little resentment until the last year. So this would not be a change for me. Logistics would be the major change. But I am capable, wife just never asked for help or took it when I offered.

If your wife did get full custody, do you trust her as a mother to take good care of your kids?

No. I mean that she is not neglectful of abusive. She is just a "Disneyland" mom most of the time. She lets the kids violate boundries and get away with anything they want.

Why do you balk at an amount of CS that the court would deem fair?

The amount she has requested is 1/2 of my net and they have asked that the judge waive a state recommendation for CS to get this amount.

How old are your kids?

10, 7, 4

What are the laws in your state? Are you in a no-fault state? Are you in a state where you have to be legally separated for a certain time before you D is granted?

No fault state, no mandatory separation, 90 day minimum from filing until decree made, community property state, and WAY TO EASY TO DO!

F4W

[Fighting4Wife]

2nd Chance:
1st and I may have already made this comment on another of your posts, I see that you have 34 current posts, but yet you use my original screen name when I first started here. What previous screen name did you use before?

It's obvious to me that you are on a slippery slope towards D. And I say this not because of your W's recent filing. You've mentioned in the past how you've "tried almost everything" to get your W to commit to saving your M. However, it seems to me that you've been repeating more of the same "cheeseless" patterns for the past year (or so).

By my statement I have tried to follow DB, I have treid to follow her wishes, I have tried to follow my heart, In the end I came to realize that nothing will work until both of us can face the our fears and resentments that were causing everything to fail. We needed to strip away all the built up scar tissue and start true healing. That is why I am in the place I am now. I am human and going to fail sometimes at staying detatched. But at this point I am trying to be supportive but I do not have to agree with everything she says or does. For the first time in a long time she is opening up and sharing a lot of what she has repressed about my behaviors that have hurt her. This is tough to look at and face, but in the end it will help both of us.

You claim to be "lovingly detaching" from your W (for her own good), yet you say "I love you" to her regularly. Do you think that she doesn't know it by now? Is that what you think the problem is; that she's unsure of your love towards her?

Detachment to me is not getting caught up in the emotions that she is feeling. They are not mine and I cannot fully understand them because of that. I see her pain and try not to add to it. Detachment is being able to separate my happiness and feelings from hers. To have empathy but not become engulfed in what she is going through. The ILY have been in response to her asking why I stay, why do I still have feelings for her when she does not for me. They are not offered freely by me.

As to support, I disagree with you stance. I am not in favor of D. I cannot support it. If that is going to be my downfall then I fall holding to that belief. There are times when D is appropriate (Abuse, Neglect, Drugs, etc) not because one wants to give up. Because I do not support it does not mean it will not happen. I realize that and will be able to get through it but not willingly nor happily. My support is of her decision. It is hers. It forces me than to look at what is best for my children and me at that point, not her! It sounds crass but is a reality. I cannot make her choices and I cannot change her mind. My actions at home and around her of a loving H. I am upbeat, I am the a better man and do not engage in her silence nor pouting behavior around the house. She is not ready to see that and accept that. She willnot until she wants to re-engage in the M and take D out of the picture.

I am not being self rightous, I am in fact indifferent to her behavior to some degree. I am also here for her when she wishes to come to me but I am not able to seek her out, that is rescuing her. I understand what you are trying to say. I do. But until she can come to grips with the "reasons" she cannot love me and decide to hold on to those or work on those, I can do nothing but lead subtley for her.

I am not proud of her actions. Yet I am respecting her actions. I am not throwing a fit, not seeking solice in a bottle, not moping nor angry around her. I am moving in a direction in what I feel is best for my children and myself. I do not need to agree with her plans layed out in the papers.

There is no slippery slope I am on. We are in a D proceeding, no other way to slice it. My actions at this time are trying to stay above the fray.

I agree that she is confused, but I am not able to cure that. Only she can. I need to be the one who is not drifting, I need to be the point of stability. I am unsure how to do it exactly, but I need to show that I am resolved in the D process, just as resolved as I would be if we were to reconcile and work on our marriage.

F4W

[Fighting4Wife]

BF,

I agree she is being totally honest and reaching out. Here is my thinking and issues.

If I were to say, I am glad you are willing to call of the divorce and stay married. How do I overcome the issue that she is being a martyr and doing something she willingly is uncaplabe of doing? I guess I can answer that myself. I have no control over that and need to continue to lead if she decides to stay by being a loving husband.

The lead I have taken has been little in the past few days because my side job has kept me away for 4 nights. I think it also a good thing because we have had minimal contact and she has had "space" at night.

I agree to stop ILY. My response from now on when asked why I am staying, why I will not let her go will be. "I have already told you my reasons and feelings. I am not keeping you here though I am glad you decide to stay and you choose to do so."

The fact here is I am as confused as she is, from the standpoint I do not truly know what to say or answer her and still be supportive and true to me.

F4W

[WCW]

F4W, I've been quiet on your sitch since I was pretty hard on you a while ago. I am glad you are getting lots of cyber hugs. I am just as glad you are getting lots of challenges that will really make you think about your thoughts and what is happening in your life. You are explaining yourself very well and I see you stronger now than you have been in the past. We really all need that here, people and friends that will make us be accountable for our actions and not just sit around a campfire singing kumbaya.

Your W does still seem very confused about ending the marriage. Do you remember the post by aynesr about 'taking divorce off the table'? It's been a few months ago, I can put it here if you don't remember it. For me, it's been a few months since H and I had any type of real R talk, and naturally he said then that he was moving out. The day after our talk, I handed him a copy of that article and asked him to read it. We haven't talked R again since then, but something about him has changed, although very subtle. I don't have a clue if it was that article, or my GAL, or anything else in the scope of the world. I just wanted to share this point with you, that IMO it made a change in H, and offer a reminder about that article. It's short, and might make good reading for your W.

You are a very caring person. I wish you all the best in your world.

[Fighting4Wife]

WCW,

Please link it for me.

Thank you for the kind words.

YEs it feels good to have friends, I am grateful for that.

I am not feeling as strong as I should. Many of the challenges make me think I need to just let it all go. Make the statement joint is fine, she can be the primary caregiver, and just go off into the sunset and wait ot see my boys. Is that not better than dragging this on and dragging my wife throught her emotional hell. Is it rescuing or compassion. H3ll I do not know.

F4W

[WCW]

Here it is, it cuts off at the end, but you'll get the idea...and will have to decide if it's a good idea to hand this to your W. Not sure where aynesr found it, but I am sure glad he was so thoughtful to share it with all of us.

Denying Divorce: Forget About Divorce as an Option, It Just Might Save Your Marriage. No one is saying that your marriage isn't difficult. It might even be miserable. But an interesting set of statistics shows that people who take divorce off the table as an option not only resolve their issues, but end up being happier than ever. If your marriage is feeling troubled, and you're considering divorce, consider trying alternate therapies instead, marriage counseling, or just some open communication.

But whatever you do, don't bring up the "D" word as an option, because doing that will change the rules of the game. Now, of course it's important to acknowledge that there are a lot of influences on you to get a divorce. Your friends who don't like your spouse, legal advertisements, even popular culture. It's a common statistic that most marriages end in divorce, and so it seems like an acceptable, even normal way to resolve problems in a marriage.

But let's look at some statistics. Of all the couples surveyed who were contemplating divorce and then decided not to go through with it, 80% claimed to be happily married only five years later. In all likelihood this is due to two elements. The first is that those couples who decide not to consider divorce, the only remaining option is to deal with the problems experienced in the marriage head-on. This is a powerful and proactive tactic that will lead to acknowledgement of the problems the couples face, and maybe even to solutions.

The other element is that once divorce is considered, the dynamic of the relationship is changed. This is a more subtle, though far more destructive product of considering divorce. The dynamic of this is simple. When a fundamental disagreement develops in a marriage - as it will in almost all relationships - those who never consider divorce are forced to deal with the disagreement. Those who do consider divorce preserve an "out" that can be used without ever addressing the issue.

As the problems in the marriage mount, or the fundamental issues become more divisive, the easy out of divorce can become more and more appealing. This thinking will take both of you, however. When both people in a marriage are actively searching for a solution to a problem, and both accept that divorce is not - and will not be - an option, a solution will almost surely be found. You and your spouse will be asking what you can do to make things better, rather than asking if it's worth it, or if you should cut your losses and run.

Remove divorce as an option and endeavor to go into relationship counseling, therapy of some kind, or just talk about your problems in a mature and open way. It seems simplistic, but statistically it also seems to work. Those who deny divorce as a viable end to a committed marriage will also be more motivated to work on that marriage, and work through the problems that could, without

[blackfoot]

Many of the challenges make me think I need to just let it all go. Make the statement joint is fine, she can be the primary caregiver, and just go off into the sunset and wait ot see my boys. Is that not better than dragging this on and dragging my wife throught her emotional hell. Is it rescuing or compassion.

its called tough love. and its tough for both of you. You are gaining strength, and showing her that you are strong enough to do this. Thats what she is finding out thru all her emotional struggles with you.

My response from now on when asked why I am staying, why I will not let her go will be. "I have already told you my reasons and feelings. I am not keeping you here though I am glad you decide to stay and you choose to do so When she goes to the effort to be vulnerable and express herself honestly, I dont think denying her that reassurance is such a good idea (saying I already told you). There are ways to show her ILY, thru a gentle touch, a look, a smile. You explained your reasons for giving the ILY. I understand and definitely agreed with you given the context.

I do not truly know what to say or answer her and still be supportive and true to me.

Your fear of loss,(which is driving you to be supplicating and begging) is shouting loudly and confusing your desire to self protect, (berate and abuse her,) another fear. Neither are right. Breathe deep. Be calm. Your doing well. MWD concept of lovingly detach, is dead on. Hard to do when the emotions are banging around making your head hurt, and your soul tired. When you are confidant, and assured, you wont have to think about what to say. It just comes out.

ideas of leading day to day.
In your previous threads, you mentioned she was often asking you to do things for her. You said this made you feel like she wanted to control you? you were being bossed around? I understand. IMO, though,
1) she was giving what she wanted
2) giving her this, will make her feel like she is wanted, needed, part of a team, special. (actually Im not sure how it makes her feel, Im a man, I just know what works. mostly, sometimes. )

example. morning. ...F4W: W. Im in a hurry,... make some coffee, would ya. after she does, thank her.
Ill break this down. It comes of slightly bossy, because of the lack of using the words me, or need, or please. Which is likely why you felt this when she was doing it too you, in the past. Women are so in tune with, what they dont want, (a needy man) and also what they want, to be tight knit, feel special, be part of a team, and trying to show that to us, setting an example, and it comes out in their verbals.

another example. F4W: Im hungry. Have you decided on dinner yet? No? Good. I want .... for dinner.

Men have the habit of giving what they want to women, and showing it thru example. you allready know what that is. Women do the same. The result is neither person giving or getting what they want/need. So stop giving what you want, give what she needs.
Ill give one more RL example. after I decided to reconcile with x, our first interaction was at a family gathering. we had been seperated and I had been darkwith her for 3 months. Everyone started eating (buffett style) and I was talking to someone. I gave her the 'come here' finger. She came over and I said, 'make us some plates, Ill save you a seat here next to me'. she gave me the squinty look. I smiled. we sat next to each other , and didnt talk much, I talked to others, but there was a lot of touching going on under the table. (no not that kind. get your mind out of the gutter. ) oh for the record she was no wilting violet susy homemaker type. We got perplexed looks from some of the family, but I acted like everything was normal, and she followed suit. she was obviously apprehensive at first, untill she knew how I was going to behave.

It will take some guts. If you collapse at the first sign of resistance, start apologizing, or get defensive ( ex. FINE! JUST forget it then!) youll shoot yourself in the foot. Like I said, if she doesnt, shrug it off. Its not about you. If its meet with true irritation, youll know that real quick. I find this very rare though. There are a hundred ways to lead, with confidance and assurance everyday. Especially when it comes to her and your kids.

[Botox]

F4
Sorry to hear that W did file. I won't reiterate what the others have proposed but I will say this.

It will get worse before it gets better. Your wife asked for your view of the sitch she has put you into. The next time she asks, you need to turn it around instead of answering and ask her what she thinks you would suggest....Since you've already said it, this will get her to think and not put you in the spot of "pushing" her, "controlling" her or "contradicting" her...

Keep up the hard work. She knows she is being the immature one here. You are correct that she needs to recommit to work on it as you can only do your 80%. Hang in there. I'll say the prayer you put on the old thread for you (and my marriage) each day.

Hope this weekend goes well for you.