just a thought from a knucklehead(that's me)about the want or obligation thing. men like to feel needed. we like to feel strong and in control. sometimes we put the proverbial foot in the mouth, but, ultimately we will do these things out of desire and want. even if it feels like an obligation, it is an obligation we gladly take on. it may not be verbalized in this manner, but, i have a feeling it is done for the right reasons.
I have another take on the "has to.... wants to" thing. We all (the three of us, at least) have been at this for so long, watching them wander around in their own fog for so long that, at least in my case, it's so hard not to look for their "angle" when they do something nice. I agree with Andy on this, that they won't do anything they really don't "want" to, and they've made that pretty clear over the many months past. I catch myself questioning so much of her nice behavior, and wondering if she's setting me up, manipulating me into some corner. Then I remember that she is really a nice person in spite of the recent past. I realize I'm seeing the person I married shining through the alien's mask. I think when we notice them behaving like this, we need to put away our fears and suspicions and just "catch them doing something right".
And, man o man, 16 months? Wow, that would be so hard to hold out that long. I can't possibley be worth the pain to hold on that long, can it... Why, I've only been at this, what, 15 1/2..... oops, never mind. Good for you and your resolve and perserverence. And thank you so much for being my friend and my role model.
You’re right, Z. The longer you’re at this, the more analytical you get. Fille and other have been slapping me around for months about being overly analytical. But, in my case, the reason isn’t that I think she’s trying to “get something” out of me. I truly believe that when she does something for me (or anyone else for that matter), she does it for me (or the other person). My issue is that I’ve received so many conflicting statements that I don’t know if she’s saying something, or acting in a certain way to save my feelings, or is she being genuine.
If it were anyone other than my W, I wouldn’t care. But I do care and always will care about how my W genuinely feels about me.
Heya TrEE. Just thinking of you this morning. Know things are still rough where you are and thought I'd say hi and hope you're well and getting a sufficient amount of hugs and laughs where you can get them.
At my MILs viewing, I walked around with my fly unzipped for about 5 minutes. Hey, it broke the mood. No, I didn't do it on purpose! Really!
Hey Andy - If you do ever get sick of me for a while then please tell me. I know I can get intense . And before you say it - no, I wasn't reading anything into your last post! I just know we've been Itchy and Scratcy lately.
No No No, Fille!!!! I could never get sick of you!!! I hope I dont't give you that impression.
You've given me a lot to think about. I want to respond to you on my thread, but been too busy at work to give your posts proper thought. You can rest assured that I'll rectify that sit asap
The short answer is that I guess, like Tree, I just want the occasional hug. I may seem too analytical, but my ultimate wishes are so simple.
Andy
[ April 20, 2002, 08:19 PM: Message edited by: ANS ]
well well long time and no post. A weird thing happened to me yesterday that makes me realize I am not quite as together as I had thought!
H has been working on a special project at work with other folks of course. There is a group of them. He brought home some paperwork and I saw that the EA is one of the members of the group along with the other woman who is his "confidante. " This confidante was told about his feelings for EA. The absolute freaky feeling I had at seeing BOTH women's names next to my H's as part of the work group made me see this streak of green that I haven't felt for awhile now.
I think many of my emotions are wrapped up in stuff since the death of my mom, but that would be fodder for the therapist I guess.
So here's my big question. After the project is complete - tomorrow - the bunch of them are planning a dinner out to reward themselves. I have a real problem with H going out on personal time for dinner with this small cast of characters which inludes his "confidante female friend" and his EA the GenXer gril who is not aware of his fantasy feelings. I am absolute sick about it. This really surprised me!
No doubt the dinner will happen while I am out of town on business as well as this seems to be my H's usual MO as well.
Work is work and project teams have to happen but does it have to include the post work partying that I am really freaking over. The entire group is small - five others plus H and two who are his "special" friends.
If this were any of you would you ask your Spouse to not go to this social event that is after work hours? And would you explain why you felt this way? YIKES sounds to me like an OR is coming on because of this. I SHUDDER!
I am debating about how best to deal with this one. I haven't been to the C in months now, and figure if I do go it's going to be another marathon session that I am not ready for as yet. The absolute high end emotion I am feeling has me just completely FREAKED these past two days!
so whaddya all say? and think? thanks Tree slightly nutbar, but going in for manicure, pedicure and haircut to deal with things for now!
Tree,I truly understand why you are freaking out but let me ask you this. He still works with her right?..so this is dinner...a social occasion to be sure but if you stop this..think of the fall out. The poor girl doesn't know he had a thing for her right? There was no PA right? Maybe you could say tell him it bothers you but that you realise it's important for him to go. At this point... up front..I don't like it but I dunno..... asking not to go might be pushing it. Can you suggest that spouses go?
I’m really sorry that you’re feeling this way, and even sorrier of the advice I feel obligated to give you.
You’re going to have to suck this one in. In your efforts to have a more intimate relationship with your H, you have to be someone who he wants to be close to.
What would the outcome be if you asked him not to attend? Would he understand and agree? Or would he resent your jealousy, go anyway, and withdraw from you. Think he might have more of a need to confide in someone? Who do you think that would be?
I also think that you’re right. It could lead to an OR talk. You know that I think there’s a place for OR talks, but you have to be ready, and set it up. I think you’re due for an OR talk, but not this way.
I think that if you’re not there right now, you soon will be in a place where you can initiate an OR talk. For you, especially, an OR talk should be a positive thing. In other words, your H’s mind must be in a place where he’s at least somewhat amenable to improving your R. At least somewhat willing to compromize.
I know exactly what you mean about the green monster hovering over your shoulder. Like you, I think I’ve got it together pretty well, and then BAM! Something like this happens.
Happened to me this weekend, but that’s another story.
So, my advice is to do nothing overtly. Treat it like it’s your problem. Think about it as a get together of people who were working on a project. Nothing more. And, y’know? That’s probably all it is.
Like I said, I hate saying this tree. It’s not fair. I don’t like it when it happens to me, and I don’t like to see it happen to you either.
Hi tree -- hope you're doing OK and that the "freak monster" is starting to retreat a little.
I'd have to say I agree with Andy, much as I sympathize with you. But think of it this way -- it's not likely that he's going to do anything other than have dinner because he isn't going to want to make a (bigger) fool of himself in front of those colleagues -- especially the "confidante." I don't think you have any specific to worry about in this particular instance. You can work on the longer-term issues with your C or on your own, if you're not ready to confront them yet.
Hang in there -- it's been a rough few weeks for you and all the emotions are raw and on the surface. It's going to take a long time for them to fully heal. In the meantime, I think the manicure, pedicure, and haircut will do you a world of good -- why not throw in a massage for extra measure?
wilma
I learn by going where I have to go.
~Theodore Roethke
Sorry to hear of the loss of your mother. Mine died a few years back, so I know what you are going through.
Ok, here is my take. First peel yourself off the walls. And let's get down to what is really going on in your situation. H has a fantasy and he can't get out of the loop. Why? Who knows. One thought that I have is that you drive yourself nuts calling this thing an EA. Maybe you should look at it differently. An affair takes two willing parties. Maybe call her FC (fantasy chick, or maybe you can find another name using those initials). FCs sooner or later always show kinks in their armor. But you are fretting over something that IMO will never happen.
Tree, things seemed to be improving with H. Is that still going on? I think the big thing you have to ask yourself in all of this is whether or not you are contributing to this ongoing situation. DBing tells us when something doesn't work to do something different. What can you do differently? Do you fear his reaction if you do? Is it time to rock the boat? Are you two even communicating?
Let me tell what I am doing in my situation. My divorce is over a year old already. Little by little, I put a more of myself out. I take it very slowly and really don't know what the end of all of it will be. Is there a way to put more of yourself out there? Are you flapping in the wind or being too guarded with your feelings and emotions around the H? After all, this really isn't about dinner with a group of colleagues.
![[Eek!]](images/icons/shocked.gif){kind=icon}
Wow, that would be so hard to hold out that long. I can't possibley be worth the pain to hold on that long, can it... Why, I've only been at this, what, 15 1/2..... oops, never mind. ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon}
Good for you and your resolve and perserverence. And thank you so much for being my friend and my role model. ![[Cool]](images/icons/cool.gif){kind=icon}