It’s funny that we say we’re trying not to over-react when we’re under attack. I don’t think we over-react but we must develop our ability to under-react.
One way to do this is not to react (go dark). The problem with this is it can be perceived as brooding, dismissing their complaints/opinions or not caring. Did your mother ever tell you to chant “sticks and stones…”? Did it work?
The middle road is to listen, acknowledge their “concern” and make a mental note of what behaviors we are doing to perpetuate this perception.
There are lotsa people and events that affect our way of thinking. We have no control over which people and events influence our spouses, and when our spouse feels controlled by us, our influence is gone.
All we can do is to avoid behavior that reinforces their negative perception, and ride things out.
Greenbar,
Though it may not look like it from your perspective, I don’t believe logic and common sense have left your W completely. Like you said:
quote:Originally posted by greenbar: I keep reminding myself that nothing is one-sided. I have read so many stories on this board where the attitude of the writer seems to be that their own point of view is the right one and their spouses point of view is the wrong one. Many on this board are quick to point out the selfishness of their spouses without recognizing their own selfishness. What a double standard. I question if the terms “right and wrong” even apply to the issues we discuss here. And, anyway, what’s the satisfaction of being “right” if it doesn’t serve to salvage the relationship?
The implication in your post is that you don’t understand your W’s point of view. You never will, my friend, but that’s no reason to give up trying. Every little insight you gain will give you ideas to help you avoid fuelling her negative perceptions.
I think that good DBing in these cases isn’t so much finding what works as stopping what is working against you.
Hi Me2,
I guess your sitch is sorta like your last post on Bringing the Walls Down with a Teaspoon. You were saying that my W's perception of what constitutes being my best friend may be different from mine. Criticism is in the eye of the beholder, eh?
And his assumption that you’re going to fly off the handle… He really can’t get his subconscious mind around the fact that you don’t do that any more. Another example of how perceptions are sooooooooooooooo slow to change.
Greenbar-I have a question for you...not trying to 'start' anything, and I do understand what you're saying about being right thing, the absolute worst day of my life was when I found out that I was "right" after all. Sometimes it really sucks to be right, but in my case ignorance and denial were the alternative, so....
Anyway, I just wanted to ask you what you meant about the rights and wrongs of straying. I think what you're saying is that no matter who did what in a M that there is no absolute 100% WRONG person and no absolute 100% RIGHT person. No one is entirely blame-less. Is that a good read on what you said? I understand that through all of my 'marital problems' and even before I realized there WAS a problem, I was responsible for certain things. Maybe a good way to think about what you say about not assigning right or wrong is to say "responsibility for ones actions"....? I didn't see what I was doing at the time, but now I fully accept 'blame' for what I contributed.
However, all that having been said....I can never ever ever even begin to think that there is ever a time or sit where a EA/PA is not considered "wrong". Flat out-wrong.
I'm not saying you're saying that there is a time when it isn't wrong....oh wait - no, yeah, that's right...- I think I'm confusing myself! I know what you're saying, but please tell me if I've mis-understood what you meant...and that is that the 'blame game' is a waste of time and ends up being counter-productive in the long run. Assigning blame, even tho one/both parties are in fact WRONG, will not serve any purpose.
I read your quote a few posts back and thought....what? Then I re-read it, and went back through all your posts on this thread and just wanted to get a more in depth view out of you...if'n you don't mind. ta
The point I think I am trying to make is that there comes a time, if you truly want to save your marriage, when the rights and wrongs of the past cannot apply. Any baggage from the past, despite who did what, has got to be completely forgotten and can never be rehashed. This must be done for the good of the new relationship you are forging for the future.
You must eventually come to the realization that your relationship cannot go back to the way it was before. After all, the way it was before is what brought you to where you are now. Any old grudges can only serve to weaken anything new you wish to form.
If your ultimate goal is to get your relationship back on track, you have to realize that by necessity it must not be the same track that it was on before. Despite who was “right” and who was “wrong,” things will have to change toward the positive and that will require differences in both of your behaviors.
Challenging someone for being wrong will only have the outcome of bringing up defenses. No one likes to be challenged. No one ever thinks they intentionally commit “wrong.” I might perceive your actions as wrong but you obviously will have some reason that justified your actions as “right” in your own mind.
I doubt if two people will ever agree on every single topic. However, our job in our individual situations is to attempt as best as possible to lessen inevitable conflicts that will appear. The only way to do this (and Michele points it out in her book) it to be strong enough and confident enough to forget the past indiscretions—really forget them—and not drag along a lot of old animosities into a new relationship.
I may turn out to ultimately be “wrong” about my opinions on this subject but my attempt is to be “positive” about what will occur if I work on my relationship using this viewpoint.
Well, this thread seems to have become less about me than I had envisaged.
That’s OK, though. Lotsa great stuff showing up, and Me2, feel free to take the wheel any time.
But, here’s a personal update:
I think that I’ve truly come to the point where W can spend as much time as she wants doing her own thing. What makes this easier at this point is that she’s started to do more family oriented things, started to include me in her circle of friends, and started to do some things alone with me such as our morning coffee routine, and Sunday breakfasts.
I’m also seeing signs that she’s appreciating the things I’m doing for her.
The whole atmosphere around our house is much better lately. S#2 has been very good a lot of the time, and W has started to catch up on years of lost sleep.
You may think that this thread seems to have taken on a life of its own but that is only because you have hit upon one of those universal topics that is at the very root of what we are all trying to do here. If you have noticed since you started this thread, the theme of perception and perspective has popped up in many of the other threads on these boards.
You may have envisioned more personal advice and comments but in a larger sense what you have done is aid in helping us all and hopefully the discussion you have inspired will give you help in return. When the individual details of your story are removed, what is left is the archetype of all of our stories. Laurin stated that your story could be his. Your story could also be mine and probably a hundred other readers of these boards who do not post.
The point is, ANS, we understand what you are going through. We are pulling for you just as we are pulling for ourselves. Any success you accomplish gives hope to us all. Your feelings and the ideas and themes you bring out give inspiration and insight to us all.
This thread is about you. But the importance of it does not come in the details of your story. In a larger sense, it is about us all and we all learn from the discussion.
Congratulations on the better atmosphere around your home. I look forward to eventually being able to post a similar statement. You have attempted to come to terms with some of your wife’s erratic behavior. I am attempting the same in my situation.
Please don’t think I was complaining. I’m very happy that this thread took on a life of its own. Actually, I’ve had several exchanges with lotsa people (eh Me2?) about perception. The very fact that it is a universal problem is why I started this thread. I just feel the need to put my personal stuff somewhere, and this is the thread I will use.
Thanks green-and no it wasn't clear as mud - it was actually very well put!
That's pretty much what I thought you were saying, that is has to, at some point, come down to more than who was right or wrong. You must "let go" (thanks KentS for that!!). I really do believe that....putting it into practice is also pretty easy...it's the keeping it there that I struggle with.
I am much further along than most, my sit has not been nearly as bad as many others here on this BB, and for that I am truly grateful. I know in many eyes I 'got it good'. I also know some feel that I whine entirely too much, admittedly sometimes I do (usu once a month). But that's what makes this such a great place - the freedom and forum to be able to 'whine' any time I feel I need to. To the defense of myself and others, better here than to spouses.
I have a (slight) tendency to over-analyze and over-react, I have been working on that. The over-react thing I've got a good handle on, it's the in-my-brain-housing-group over-analyzing that I can't seem to stop entirely. It's what's inside my head that drives me nuts....you stated that at some point we will have to forget, I wonder if that holds true for everyone. Forget....I don't know if I ever will. Forgive? Already have.
Andy, I'm glad to hear about your W including you more...that's one thing I desire most about my H's life, is to be included. I have an edge up on most spouses 'cause I used to do what he does (green-suiter) so I can talk the talk and understand the pressures...he finds it easy to talk to me about work, whereas when I tell him about my day (lab-rat) his eyes glaze over!!
Keep on keeping on, and remember not to overanalyze everything she does - or doesn't do (yeah, like I'M a good one to give THAT advice, huh!!!)
I think I’m getting better at not over-analyzing. At least I don’t get my underwear in a knot when things don’t go my way. I guess that’s something, anyway. Sound like you’re doing the same.
The underwear comment had me rolling. I always say that I have my panties in a bunch when I am upset. As of late, those damm pantied have caused me a hard time walking...
