Okay so who had summer soltice as an annivorcery? Was that Michele? I'm not at that point yet. September 27....right as we start leading into the holidays! Hopefully this year will be a better one. It might not be if I don't get with it though. I use Quicken and I just set up a new account on the old Quicken. I haven't reconciled my darn checkbook since then. If the program would just be less helpful and not suggest "XH - ****" when I want to put in a deposit, etc. Never ceases to amaze me what triggers me.
Glenda--That would be Michele and Wonder, and I can't remember whose was first. I can't speak for them, and I don't think they'll be marking any annivorceries. Mine was the "spring fling"...
I was born with a quirky gene...
Good luck with Quicken! I use Money. It's been a lifesaver, especially after my purse was stolen last year.
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Quote: Okay so who had summer soltice as an annivorcery? Was that Michele? I'm not at that point yet.
Yes, it was summer solstice. The perfect time for the pagan ritual of divorce.
The shedding of marital assets is such an interesting point, B., and, like usual, you and I are on the same wavelength.
I participated in a neighborhood yard sale last Saturday. Made $435. But... sold a bunch of stuff I no longer needed. The things I chose to sell represnted a life I'm no longer living, and it felt good to get rid of it. I am truly in the purge mode.
I have all of XH's old law books in the basement. He doesn't want them and I haven't had the time nor inclination to tote those suckers up and put them on the curb.
Michele was the solstice survivor! And Betsey the spring fling. (party on there, Bets).
Is this the date of the court deal, or the final date on the piece of paper we're talking about? Mine were in mid-March and mid-June.
The first one slipped by this year unnoticed... and last year I spent the June date lounging on a beach with friends who seem to be quite easily able to say/show they love me. So... I may be celebrating that. Or repeating it. We'll see.
Ahhh... shedding.
I did a lot of this a while back. There's still some sports equipment he doesn't want in the basement and his old printer & scanner I'm donating on Saturday. And a box of photos I've let sit down there because I haven't wanted to throw them all out or sort through them. Um, and the wedding dress in the closet, which I've tried to sell to no avail.
I'm in the process of selling my house, but that feels much more mine anyway since he only actually lived here 6 months and gave it to me free and clear in the D.
But XH loves to cook and has always loved to buy kitchen paraphrenalia... and I have all of it here. Some of this may well get shuffled off to new owners when I (someday) start packing.
Here's a little story for you: Last week, I found a heavy sweatshirt that XH bought for himself and I to share on our first-ever weekend trip to Maine together (that would be in 1990!). For some reason, this 16 year old piece of clothing still looks like it's new.
I wore it to yoga class. Kept me warm in all this rain. And that felt fine.
~ wonder
p.s. Michele, will you come run my next yard sale? I had one last fall and made $70... only by selling stuff to my helpers.
As always, I try to be careful to put it from my own perspective...sometimes it just comes out way to general. I don't believe for a second that all WAS feel the same way and all LBS feel the same way...because honestly, each realtionship has it's own quirks and dynamics.
By no means did I mean to imply and LBS's don't want to work on the R nor did I mean to suggest they don't work their butts of. My point was that (in my case) at a time in which the words or the actions got through to the LBS, the WAS is in a whole different mind set with a a lot of anger and resentment, not to mention hurt.
Quote: That may not be the case with your XH. But I don't know how one can work on something effectively without addressing it upfront and fully. Otherwise isn't it all just a bunch of assumptions being made about who wants what?
Actually, my XH did tell me that he wanted to work on the R, after I announced we needed to spend some time apart from each other - but not ONE second before he thought I was serious about leaving him. Again, we had severe communication issues. I felt like I had tried and tried to no avail to talk about things and being open and upfront. How I felt at that moment in which he was "willing to do anything", I had thrown in the towel. Now, he said he was willing to do anything, but still was relying on my to have the solution. Not once did he suggest we talk about what's going on, he left it up to me. I felt as the WAS that I had been unhappy for so long and I he knew I was unhappy, just not THAT unhappy. Again, he knew I was unhappy, but failed to do anything about it because he was just fine and dandy. I tried to talk to him and it always ended up in a fight...somehow when I communicated that I was unhappy and I needed X, Y, and Z he felt as though I was blaming him for not doing X, Y, and Z, and he felt that because he didn't need X, Y, and Z it was easier to try and convince me that I didn't need it either, rather than just giving me X, Y, and Z.
So here we are, I just made him severely unhappy by announcing that I wanted to leave and spend some time apart, and he says "I need X, Y, and Z." Yeah, well I was so far down the path of being hurt, angry and resentful that X, Y, and Z were no longer even on my radar screen for wanting from him nevertheless to give him.
Quote: Although a WAS might want to go off and do whatever and just find their way back, I think it's important to note here that to some LBSs, this is simply unacceptable behavior within a committed R.
You're absolutely right. But note, that you say "committed R". And in my world there's more than just affairs and leaving to do whatever to find your way back as unacceptable behavior in a committed R. In my world, the fact that my XH emotionally withheld from me was unacceptable in a committed R. The fact that I told him what I needed that instead of talking with me about why I needed it or working hard to give it to me, he instead tried to convince me that it was useless. He devalued how I felt because it meant it was too much work for him. He made me feel bad about needing him. That to me is unacceptable behavior in a committed R. And it's not like I wasn't around for years with those violations, because I was. I guess in my mind, I gave him some time because I loved him and things didn't change. I didn't violate the committed R during that time, I was busting my ass. On the other hand, the fact is if he was busting his ass after I left and put everything into learning, communicating, etc...then as the WAS I'd have been there listening and discussing. Make sense?
Quote: For me, I'd rather not be in R with someone who needs to skirt what's real for me to make himself comfortable....Maybe, to feel safe, some WAS need to start over and not be willing to have frank and honest conversations about the reality between you until it's resolved.
Wonder, I never wanted to skirt the issue, I wanted to let be what happened. I left for us to get some perspective here, to get some distance...and I couldn't do that with him constantly panicking about me not coming back. I just wanted him to sit quietly for a while, I wanted him to be the person I fell in love with. I wanted to find that person again. (granted, i know he was always there), but because he constantly wanted to talk about the issue, we had the same conversations over and over the same way. It's different if my XH had taken the time to say "hey, we've got something really wrong here, I know I love her, why doesn't she know that?" Then take some action. Instead it seems my XH (still stuck on this today) thinks "the problems we had weren't that bad, I was good with the way things were, what did she think was so wrong about our marraige, so wrong about me?" There is a huge difference in thought there. One is all about him and what he's lost, the other is about him and what he wants.
Really it wasn't about feeling safe, it was about breaking out of the pattern we were in. I was guilty of communicating the same way because I still saw him the same way. Again, the biggest difference for me NOW, and that happened quickly after my divorce was final, is that my XH started behaving like himself again and I got to see it. I started rethinking my life and my values, and my beliefs...I couldn't do that with him constantly wanting to talk to me about how he felt. His tactics weren't action, they were words. "We've been together 9 years.", "We've had some really great times together.", "I cant' believe you're going to throw this all away." Again, it wasn't that I didn't feel safe talking to him, I just had nothing to say anymore. Years of talking, telling him what I needed, and years of him telling me that's not what I needed and that I live in a fantasy world...blah blah blah. I continually had this itch for more in our relationship, and KNEW he was witholding it from me.
Quote: Shirley Glass, Michele and others talk about this with As, but I suspect that for some people, the very act of leaving the M feels enough of a betrayal where some of those same feelings would surface. It can be very much a trauma.
Sure, some people do get stuck in that trauma place. But many just need their time to process it, and to decide if they want to take a risk with someone who's already hurt them, especially if there are other options (and really, there are always other options).
I have no doubt what I did causes him severe trauma. He and I talk occasionally, and I've seen first hand how sad, depressed, hurt, angry, and resentful he is. But again, I've been spending the time trying to break through that and communicate differently. The difference is that he is where I was emotionally when I left. Trying to decide if I even wanted to work at it because it just seems so much easier to start over with someone else...no baggage. It's funny, because he's using my own tactics on me and I know how he felt before. We've switched places. He's got a GF and he's struggling because he loves her, yet when he goes to think about his future, his heart hurts - physically hurts, because all he pictures is me and him and our kids and grandkids. He doesn't feel like he loves me the way he should, "he'll always love me", but he feels something different for his GF. He feels comfortable with her, and he can't ever imagine feeling that way about me again but doesn't understand why if that's the case why his heart hurts and why he thinks about me when he pictures his future. I tell you, I've been there, it's a sh!tty place to be....but I'd describe it differently now that I have some clarity. I say it is the most awful pain, to FEEL like you love someone so much, and not understand why you don't want anything to do with them. The head and the heart...the best of friends, yet the greatest of enemies.
Nickel
"The walls we build around us to keep sadness out also keeps out the joy."
I was talking about the decree day, which also happened to be the court day for me. I know your sitch was a little different, so you're fortunate enough to be able to pick the date of your "celebration". Or should we be calling this a "salebration" from now on?
We'll both hire Michele to host our yard sales! I didn't even make $70 the 2 times I had them, and I had a ton of stuff out there for sale. Of course, it didn't help that I had the gypsies present, and they stole a ton of stuff. The sad part is that it was D12's--and I had told her that whatever she sold, she'd keep the booty since we were moving.
Nickel is an e-bay person, and I'm considering going that route next time. Maybe a good place for your wedding dress? I'm keeping mine, as D12 says she'd like to consider it some day. We'll see.
I haven't gone through the photos yet, as I'll be having to divide them into 2 piles, and I just won't muster the energy to devote to that task right now. I have some painting to do and that really is my top priority.
I see no reason to discard stuff for the sake of discarding or to make a statement. So I can completely understand your willingness to keep a marital souvenir. I have plenty of them myself, and most of them are absolutely fine with me.
I think it's just something for me to consider, because it's consistent in the theme of letting go and moving on--to be able to let go of things that used to matter or mean something but no longer do. I like this idea myself.
Any chance your celebration might move to the Rockies in June? I've got some wine with your name on it (red and white), and a trip to the metaphysical store as well as some sightseeing and the offer to borrow a car to go off on solo jaunts. I can also book you a session with our favorite psychic friend.
Nickel and I did a free online tarot reading yesterday. Man, that was spooky! Try it at facadedotcom... I'd be interested to hear what you receive if you're willing to share.
Michele and everyone else who I didn't address last night--it's so nice of you to visit and offer your kind words. They're always appreciated.
Okay, must get to work. It's going to be a busy day, and I need to leave early to watch D12's middle school volleyball game. It's more fun than I can express because it's like watching Bad News Bears. She has the patience of a saint, and I find that even more entertaining. Today she's playing the school of one of her club teammates. I asked her if she and T were going to have a one-on-one game and all she could do was grin. I wouldn't miss it for the world!
So, let's all show the love today. I'm still feeling good about having last year behind me once and for all. Life is finally feeling happy to my pores once and for all. Who'd have thunk?
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Nickel, I so appreciate that you share your story. Much as I say I'm not analyzing anymore, that isn't totally true.
Quote: In my world, the fact that my XH emotionally withheld from me was unacceptable in a committed R. The fact that I told him what I needed that instead of talking with me about why I needed it or working hard to give it to me, he instead tried to convince me that it was useless. He devalued how I felt because it meant it was too much work for him. He made me feel bad about needing him. That to me is unacceptable behavior in a committed R.
When I read that statement, I felt like I should have been the one to throw in the towel. XH worked remote and was gone for 3 weeks and then home 3 when he first met his on-line honey who turned into the real thing later. I dealt with everything while he was gone including grown daughter and kids who had moved back home, my own work, school, house, etc. Had a lot of troule keeping up, particularly with the house, always felt it was my responsibility as the "mom and wife." And, he withheld his emotional and physical affections from me at times, I guess as a punishment. He would express to me he needed X, Y, Z, and for anything I said he would tell me I couldn't possibly feel that way, etc.
I know I've said before I was a mess. Now, that I have been on ADHD meds, sorted out a bunch of stuff in counseling, and done biofeedback therapy, I can see exactly how I would have handled the situation differently. I would ask him for a specific action plan. At that time, I didn't ignore him as he says I did, I just couldn't ever figure out how to do X,Y,Z all by myself and he never offered to help or offered a solution to help, he just offered that this was a problem for him and left me with the impression that I needed to fix it and that I could fix it "if I wanted to." I beat myself up so badly over that.
Don't know if you know anything about adults with ADHD [or any age with it I suppose] but the more stressed you become, the more overwhelming everything becomes, and the less able the person is to function in anything.
I know not all WAS are the same. I think women and men are totally different in this. I've heard or read somewhere that whether or not a marriage has a chance to be revitalized after a split depends more on which gender left than anything else. Don't know if that is true, i.e. there is more chance for a reconciliation if the woman left than the man.
Sorry, Bets for hijacking your thread. I guess I should take this over to my own and invite Nickel or stop back by her's. I have been so busy I've just stopped analyzing. I don't think it is because I have figured it out but because I'm just to tired to think about it most days. Perhaps I will yet get to the point I feel I am better off without him and my family but I don't think I'm there yet.
Thanks for shedding more light on your story... though I hope you know I was speaking more generally rather than analyzing your personal behavior.
That said, what you say here is exactly what Michele writes about in DR/DB/etc:
Quote: The difference is that he is where I was emotionally when I left. Trying to decide if I even wanted to work at it because it just seems so much easier to start over with someone else...no baggage. It's funny, because he's using my own tactics on me and I know how he felt before. We've switched places.
She says this is a very common occurrence. You actually hit on what I meant about wanting to find their way back being an unrealistic view in many cases-- that it's a one-sided view based on what one person wants.
My XH wanted me to sit patiently as well... I think he actually said that to me once and I believe I told him where to go, got quite upset and asked him to leave. The last time we talked about this, he said he couldn't believe he actually asked that of me because it seems like such a bad idea now to think I'd be up for that plan.
To me, the whole run away and come back to find the shoe on the other foot (or vice versa in the LBS case) is a great example of letting emotions run wild and make decisions for us... it doesn't strike me as maturity. And I'm saying that as someone who's been there, done it personally, so not casting any stones by any means.
As a yoga instructor I recently studied with put it recently, a spiritual relationship (marriage, friendship, etc) is one in which both parties make a commitment that, no matter how bad it gets, we'll figure it out and we're not going anywhere.
I hear what you're saying about the emotional withholding... about it not being acceptable. But I also suspect it's quite often not intentional or even something people are aware they are doing. I'm not saying anyone should accept this if it is harming them... only that my personal experience has been that those on the receiving end are quick to assign motives and intentions that are usually not even there.
Bets... Ahhh. Now, I get the date thing! Here we have the wait period and so the decree isn't valid until then-- you know how we are out here in MA-- we think everyone does things the way they do in Boston.
I've decided any "marking" I do (and I'm not one for that--you pegged me right) will be about me and my growth and definitely not the end of the M. That works for me personally... but then I don't have your stellar & quirky sense of humor!
I am looking at June dates most definitely. We open the summer exhibition this week at "the office," so between this and a bunch of client work, I'm a bit behind in my R&R planning. My coach gave me "homework" to squeeze in that planning and some F-U-N this weekend, so you'll be hearing from me. ~ wonder
Hopefully this year will be a better one. It might not be if I don't get with it though. I use Quicken and I just set up a new account on the old Quicken. I haven't reconciled my darn checkbook since then. If the program would just be less helpful and not suggest "XH - ****" when I want to put in a deposit, etc. Never ceases to amaze me what triggers me. 
Betsey 
kc 
Slowly