Quote: Perhaps it's all in how you disclose your fears and not the act of being "mean mommy who doesn't let H have his way"? Maybe even offering to find a way of prioritizing his dream but asking for some time and patience to execute it? Give him what he wants but ask for some consideration and reasonable time to put the wheels in motion?
Oh, Bets, I think I've been doing ALL of this. Problem is, real estate has appreciated quickly in that area, and he has that panicky "gotta jump on the train before it leaves the station" feeling (which so often should be "that train has left the station so I should wait for the next one", LOL!!!).
Quote: Ellie, sometimes doing things for ROI just isn't good for us. Can we appeal to your conservative nature by possibly entertaining an idea that might bring you some joy and help bridge his discomfort.. if only in the short term?
You're awfully good at thinking outside the box... I think if you pop the lid, you can see the value in doing a 180? How about some private tutoring at your D's HS?
H would be unhappy with me taking any job that earned less than what I would earn if I just went back to a clinic. He's already made that clear.
I really have to get serious about figuring out what I can do that won't make me miserable but will take away his excuse ("money would be no problem if only Ellie went back to work - but not on nights or weekends, or Fridays, because I need her to be free to go away with me on business trips, and I need her to take care of the kids and their homework in the evenings, and I want a nice home-cooked meal when I get home...."). Don't get me wrong - H is NOT a chauvinist. Actually, when I think about it, this all goes back to his mother. He REALLY likes it when I do those homemaker things for him, because his mom quit doing them when she became a WAW. But he also wants me to continue to be the "professional woman" I was when we met - and that his mother became! (She's a lawyer now). He HATED it when I worked every other weekend - even though it was a great job and a good schedule that allowed me to spend time with our babies and make good money on just a few days a week. He wants quality time with me, he wants to be free of laundry and cooking and shopping and cleaning, he wants the kids completely supervised and happy, and he wants me to be bringing in the big bucks! (Gee, what's the problem????;) )
Why does it all make me think of that awful commercial about bringing home the bacon and frying it up in a pan?
Still - despite the fact that I suspect (no - I KNOW) that H won't ever be completely satisfied whatever choice I make - I need to figure this out FOR ME, because I need to feel financially independent of him again for the balance in this R to be restored.
Quote: Why does it all make me think of that awful commercial about bringing home the bacon and frying it up in a pan?
Ellie, that commercial (with tune blaring) still runs through my mind. The subliminal message is still so strong, even though I was a little girl when that aired. It's such a horrid injustice...
And you know something? When I was preparing for my MCATs in college, I was feeling uneasy and for whatever reason, that image was conjured and it began to make me REALLY uncomfortable. As that song screamed at me (remember hot mama in her high heels and panty hose, wielding that frying pan while he was gaining strength from that cologne) I began to make a life altering decision not to head to medical school.
I don't know why, Ellie... everything I had learned up to that point told me that I could have and do it all (and so did the commercial). I remember trying to appeal to my college advisor, and he gave me a blank look and tried to talk me out of my decision not to go. (Earlier, he also tried unsuccessfully to convince me that taking 3 foreign languages at the same time was a bad move--but I made straight As in all of them and he proudly admitted defeat.)
The most disturbing convo I had with him was when I told him that nobody could do everything perfectly and give it 110% without something important falling by the wayside or failing. I told him that I wanted to be a wife and mother some day, and that the cost of doing either one of them badly at the expense of being a good doctor was more than I was willing to pay.
So I hear you loud and clear. And for the record, that commercial is so full of sh!t.
So, here is your testimony, GF:
Quote: I need to figure this out FOR ME, because I need to feel financially independent of him again for the balance in this R to be restored.
Excellent.
Bets
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Quote: I'm a family physician, I worked part-time in urgent care for years when my kids were smaller. I really don't want to go back to direct patient care, though - I really enjoyed it at the time, but the pressures now to see patients so quickly are uncomfortable. Patient education is my love - I feel there is so much information out there that doesn't reach patients. I've looked into being a "medical coach" online, but there are insurance obstacles I haven't worked out yet.
Hmmm...Ellie, I'm on the business end of the healthcare stick, and I know exactly what you are talking about. I can think of a few options for you that you could do part time. I also noticed you mentioned teaching, so here's just some brainstorming:
teach at a community college
consultant work for insurance companies, private practices
freelance writer (I read a lot of health business articles written by physicians)
non-profit work (I can think of a ton of these who would love to have a physician working with them. I'm sure you could set your own hours too, but not a lot pay involved.)
Martha has a lot of good suggestions, though I'm not sure any of them has the same kind of upside as a winning lotto ticket.
This sounds like a guy with something of a MLC going on. He's going to get in on the Baja land rush (about 25 years after it started, no?). He's going to make dreams come true, even after agreeing that it's not reasonable. (That is disturbing.) It sounds like you've discussed the college expenses and he sees them as simply "in the way" of getting what he wants. I mean, he does see them, right? Does he agree this is unreasonable right now, or does he say the words that will get him out of the convo?
Does H "do" R stuff? How did you get to be Piecing? What were the "techniques" that worked when you were getting him back to the M?
Quote: He wants quality time with me, he wants to be free of laundry and cooking and shopping and cleaning, he wants the kids completely supervised and happy, and he wants me to be bringing in the big bucks!
Except for the quality time (she wanted it, but with someone else), that could describe STBXW's attitude toward me.
You've gotten through to him before. What were you doing then? What is different now?
Thanks,
K
My sitch More importantly, Light A Million Candles
Hey, Ellie Look at how well loved you are! Lots of good advice here, and I know you will figure something out.
This all reminds me of the kinds of struggles STBX and I would have about money...and in our case I was the one doing the bookeeping because yes, I am much better at it. What you said about your H feeling that "he makes plenty of $$ and should be able to buy whatever he wants" is my H to a "T".
For us it was a control issue. H felt that he made "most" of the money and thus he had a right to spend it. The way we solved it was to have the shared account and then we each had our own separate account that we didn't have to report to the other one about. I don't know if something like that would work in your case, and it probably wouldn't be a solution to the immediate problem of your H wanting to get in on the Baja condo, but maybe this will simmer down and you can implement something similar.
Also, I hear you about wanting to be less dependant. I would say that is the best outcome of my own situation...although I have worked our entire marriage I never made enough money to fully support myself...but that is changing!
It seems to me that you would be a natural teacher... Would you be able to make enough teaching at the Med School?
There is no way you can be the loving supportive wife and mother that you have been, and that your family is used to if you have to work full time. Your kids will only be at home a few more years...is there any chance you could start something part time and then transition to full time when the time comes? (and you will have 3 kids in college!)
You have had a very full plate the last few years...I can't imagine you dealing effectively with your D and all those issues if you were juggling a job on top of that. Just bop your H upside the head for me one time!
wishing you all the best, SG
Survival Goddess "The most common way people give up their power is by thinking they don't have any." -Alice Walker
Quote: Would you be able to make enough teaching at the Med School?
That would be a full time job, and not one I particularly want - my friends there aren't that happy.
Quote: is there any chance you could start something part time and then transition to full time when the time comes? (and you will have 3 kids in college!)
Absolutely, I have no intention of working full time right now. Realistically, unless I find work I can do from home, I have a grand total of one half-day a week free when my D is in school. The rest of the time I need to be here, as she is home-schooled and needs the supervision, not to mention the companionship. H complained bitterly when I used to work nights and weekends, so I won't do that again.
I must say, to H's credit, that he does seem to be "hearing" some of what I've been saying to him. He has admitted to the possibility that he's a little manic right now (I truly believe he has a very very mild form of bipolar disorder). He did finally say a couple days ago that maybe he shouldn't have scheduled this trip. And this morning as I took him to the airport, he spoke about the possibility of buying a less expensive place in the little town in Baja rather than oceanfront property, and also spoke about the possibility of buying less expensive beachfront in a more remote area north of town.
As to the question of MLC that someone raised -yes, definitely that's part of it. H has a big fear of death and dying, and right now, a woman physician/colleague of his that has been a climbing partner on some past adventures (NO EA there, don't worry!) is undergoing treatment for breast cancer. So H is looking ahead and thinking "I don't want to work and work and then when I finally retire, get sick and die". (Never mind that his grandparents are in their 90's and going strong, or that his parents are 70 and his mom still skis and his dad still does the earth-moving jobs for his own construction company!!! ).
The thing is - I totally get that. I'm open to radical lifestyle changes and adventures - truly. I just worry that A) his dissatisfaction with work has little to do with the (relatively minor) issues at work and more to do with his underlying depression, and B) his problems won't be solved by running off to some exotic locale, especially since he is such a social person who really enjoys his friends.
I also worry that this is more about having a "project" to concentrate on - in which case, planning another trans-Sierra ski crossing would be a whole lot cheaper!!!!!
Well, 2 days of peace and quiet here while he's gone (although tomorrow I am taking D14 and 2 of her friends to Disneyland for the day in lieu of a 15th birthday party next week). S13 is settling into school really nicely since we got his classes changed, and has been surfing every day after school, much to my H's delight (he thought NONE of his kids would become surfers ).
And S18 called me from Berkeley last night, where he'd just had his first midterm (in philosophy) and was feeling really good about the exam .
I'm glad to see you posting about your own sitch so much these days! We don't get enough of you around here usually.
I am taking a childbirth education class with S., which is a 6-week affair. The business is booming, the classes are full, and the whole thing is run by a former midwife and educator who decided to teach her own classes after having worked for various hospitals and birthing centers. Why not start some kind of business like that? I'm not sure WHAT you would teach, but find a niche somewhere in your former practice and offer classes. I can tell you more about her model if you're interested.
I did a similar thing with a scholarly proofreading course I ran a few years ago. I decided there were a lot of proofreaders and copyeditors in New York, but none qualified as I was to do scholarly work for university presses. So I designed a course, marketed it to grad students in the humanities who had no hope for a job in academia (because of saturation, not lack of ability!), and ran it out of a rented space in Manhattan. It was a success, and I made a lot of money in a few hours. If I had kept it up, I could have rented my own space and started a school. But I went on to a different kind of editing, and so I let my course lapse.
Anyway, that was something I thought of that would take less time and net more money.
Jennifer has a couple of wonderful ideas here for you! I thought they were both smashing!
Great news about S18. Those first year midterms and finals can be very emotionally draining. Enjoy Disneyland (gosh, I haven't been there since I was 11!) and the Ellie-time while H is away.
You have had lots of good feedback here, not sure that I can add anyting startlingly different. Though I do empathise so much with your quandary, I was in the same position in my M, only I didn't even have the option of a potentially well paid job had I wanted it... It is very dismaying when a woman's work in the home and with her family is totally taken for granted and overlooked or discounted. And about not depending financially on your H, it is SOOO hard when you also want to fulfill the Mummmy/Mommy role as well. It is frightening that around me I hear many folk think it is OK to have latch key kids at age 9 and upwards. I have seen just this evening that Quality Time is very much one of my D's Love Languages. It would break my heart to have her return from school to an empty home.
Can you get work writing popular guides to medicine, like for family medical encyclopedias etc? Is there much work in the medical writing field? It would tie in with your urge to educate!
Perhaps you could set yourself up as a mainstream guru, in the mould of Dr Weil? With your "Dear Ellie" website???
Anyway, that's my little contribution, dear Ellie!
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
Well, here's "Dear Ellie" 's dilemma of the day:
Went to Disneyland yesterday with D14, her boyfriend, and a mutual female friend of theirs. Very sweet girl. I noticed during the course of the day that this girl has physical signs suggestive of a medical condition (hyperinsulinemia - possibly due to PCOS or just to her obesity). I think she could probably be helped by current treatments, and this is a sometimes overlooked condition - just not sure how to bring it up with her parent(s) whom I don't know at all. (Parents are divorced, too, so that dynamic may be weird.)
I don't want to be a buttinsky, but I suspect this girl's quality of life and health could be greatly improved with a proper diagnosis and appropriate treatment. Just not sure how best to bring it up.
