Ellie, it seems you're in a Mexican stand-off! Seriously, I can totally relate to your experience -- one of the big issues in my M was my departure from the wage-earning world into the at-home parent world. XH told the MC that he never "agreed" to me staying home, he merely "acquiesced."
I wonder to what degree your H is engineering a sitch where the only recourse is for you to go back to work. He knows you are the responsible type -- maybe if it gets bad enough you'll do what he wants you to do... take the pressure off him by going back to work.
I know in my M I stepped back in the hopes that XH would step up. I realize now how fruitless and manipulative it really was. The bottom line was XH had a lot of issues around his career and mine and I didn't fully understand that. I was the primary breadwinner for the first 12 years we were together, and when that changed our dynamic changed.
Is there a safe place for you to discuss both of your feelings around your work?
I've tried telling H how I feel. H makes so much more than I would at this point (he can make more in one day of consulting than I would for a whole week of full time work) that it really isn't about the money for H, I know - it's about his extreme discomfort with me being a SAHM. We have plenty. But H married a professional woman, and even though he fully realizes how important it has been that I was home for our D, and even though me being here is what has allowed him to advance in his career in the way he has for the past few years (picking up all the household slack, allowing him to travel for work, etc.) in his mind he still can't cope with me not working. Trust me, I am not an intellectual slob or anything - have plenty to talk about, lots of interests, he still thinks I'm smarter than he is.
And the sad thing is - I would like to go back to work. Not because I think it would be good for the kids or him or our home at the moment - it wouldn't. I'd like to go back to work simply because I don't trust being financially dependent on him anymore. I don't trust him not to spin out of emotional control again at some point. And I hate being in the position of feeling like I can't have an equal say in financial decisions because he's the one bringing in the money at the moment.
But I cannot sacrifice what I think my kids need at the moment. I REALLY need to figure out a way to have a career from home. Even then, H will be shocked at the slack he will have to pick up if I start diverting too many hours from homemaking into work.
Quote: I don't trust him not to spin out of emotional control again at some point.
While I can certainly understand your fear here, is it possible that you're outwardly showing signs that he can see and read that seem to be encouraging him to force a hand he understands isn't going to work?
I know you mentioned that you've calmly shared your POV with him and he's seemingly unwilling to take your position into consideration. (Yes, there is something really disconcerting about his saying he heard you and agrees with you but is going to do it anyway...)
Why do you suppose he's choosing to engage you in a dynamic which didn't work in the past?
If you could cut to the chase and take a guess at the outcome he really wants, what would that be?
What was different when you did trust him, Ellie? Or have you not fully been able to get there yet?
Bets
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Interesting quandry you pose here, my dear. A couple of questions/possibilities come to mind while I read:
1) If he is really hell-bent on the Baja property, would it be possible for him (or you for that matter) to just have him go ahead and finance it in his name only and have him be responsible for the payments out of his own pocket?
2) Have you ever thought about giving up the role of being the family accountant and turning it over to him? Just saying, "I quit. You do it." Sometimes that needs to happen so the less financially responsible party can really see what comes in and what goes out each month. (Another possibility would be to hire a real accountant to manage your family finances [sounds like you could] and let the professional be the bad guy -- removes you from the "mommy" role.)
3) I don't recall what your previous line of work was. Perhaps if you could share some of that, we here could help with a little brain-storming session for some work-from-home options.
While I can certainly understand your fear here, is it possible that you're outwardly showing signs that he can see and read that seem to be encouraging him to force a hand he understands isn't going to work?
No, I don't think he has any sense that I am afraid of depending on him financially.
I know you mentioned that you've calmly shared your POV with him and he's seemingly unwilling to take your position into consideration. (Yes, there is something really disconcerting about his saying he heard you and agrees with you but is going to do it anyway...)
Yes, it's unusual for him, I take it as a manifestation of his mild mania.
Why do you suppose he's choosing to engage you in a dynamic which didn't work in the past?
Well, I don't know that it didn't work for him in the past. I do think I have tended to accomodate him a lot in the past - I tend to be easy-going, things seem to matter more to him than to me - so I guess he thinks if he just pushes enough, i will accomodate him here too.
If you could cut to the chase and take a guess at the outcome he really wants, what would that be?
He wants to be relieved of his depression, and his underlying drive to always make things "better" comes from his inability to enjoy the now. I really think the outcome he wants is to recapture that happiness he felt on vacation. At least this time, instead of an affair with a woman, he's having an affair with a piece of land!
What was different when you did trust him, Ellie? Or have you not fully been able to get there yet?
What was different when I trusted him? He hadn't had his breakdown yet! Now that I know how severe his mood swings can get, I worry about the possibility of a recurrence. It's not anything about his behavior - I trust his intantions, our R is good - but I can see now more clearly how he cycles from high to low, how those swings widen as he gets older,
1) If he is really hell-bent on the Baja property, would it be possible for him (or you for that matter) to just have him go ahead and finance it in his name only and have him be responsible for the payments out of his own pocket?
No, his is the only income right now, everything goes into the same bank account, any money he spent would come out of money we need for college and other things.
2) Have you ever thought about giving up the role of being the family accountant and turning it over to him? Just saying, "I quit. You do it." Sometimes that needs to happen so the less financially responsible party can really see what comes in and what goes out each month. (Another possibility would be to hire a real accountant to manage your family finances [sounds like you could] and let the professional be the bad guy -- removes you from the "mommy" role.)
You know, for the very first time, I have been thinking about doing that. I always preferred being the accountant, because I am detail oriented and good with figures, and I liked knowing where things stood. H, when I met him, didn't balance his checkbook, just spent until it was gone, then stopped spending - shoulda been a clue, huh? Don't get me wrong - he's really not a spendthrift - he was always perfectly capable of not spending when money was low. He just didn't like having to keep track of it. With menopause, I find that things make me anxiousnow that never used to, and I wouldn't mind if he took over now - although then I'd probably worry whether he was doing it right! I think the solution lies in making him sit down with me every month to see just where the money goes.
3) I don't recall what your previous line of work was. Perhaps if you could share some of that, we here could help with a little brain-storming session for some work-from-home options.
I'm a family physician, I worked part-time in urgent care for years when my kids were smaller. I really don't want to go back to direct patient care, though - I really enjoyed it at the time, but the pressures now to see patients so quickly are uncomfortable. Patient education is my love - I feel there is so much information out there that doesn't reach patients. I've looked into being a "medical coach" online, but there are insurance obstacles I haven't worked out yet.
I normally don't post to you but I always read your posts because you are so insightful. Have you considered teaching? There are so many online schools now that you could teach strictly online courses, bring in income without leaving home. I worked for a University for over 10 years and quality instructors are always needed...just a thought.
Well, I have taught in the past - organic chemistry and microbiology at a junior college - but that was 25 years ago, a summer job while I was in med school. The biggest obstacle would be that it wouldn't pay nearly as much as I could earn as a physician - and in order for it to be really worthwhile for me to go back to work, I need to see a good return on my time investment.
Okay, you've given some really useful information here...
Quote: No, I don't think he has any sense that I am afraid of depending on him financially.
Would you be amenable to sharing your fears with him? Not as a means to point out the obvious, but intimacy building?
Quote: I tend to be easy-going, things seem to matter more to him than to me - so I guess he thinks if he just pushes enough, i will accomodate him here too.
Perhaps it's all in how you disclose your fears and not the act of being "mean mommy who doesn't let H have his way"? Maybe even offering to find a way of prioritizing his dream but asking for some time and patience to execute it? Give him what he wants but ask for some consideration and reasonable time to put the wheels in motion?
Quote: He wants to be relieved of his depression, and his underlying drive to always make things "better" comes from his inability to enjoy the now. I really think the outcome he wants is to recapture that happiness he felt on vacation. At least this time, instead of an affair with a woman, he's having an affair with a piece of land!
Looks like you just summed up the garden variety of our spouses/former spouses here! Too bad he can't figure out that the trouble isn't with getting what he wants but figuring out why he thinks he wants that... (no answer necessary, just a musing.)
Quote: but I can see now more clearly how he cycles from high to low, how those swings widen as he gets older,
It's good that you see this seriously.
Quote: 2) Have you ever thought about giving up the role of being the family accountant and turning it over to him? Just saying, "I quit. You do it." Sometimes that needs to happen so the less financially responsible party can really see what comes in and what goes out each month. (Another possibility would be to hire a real accountant to manage your family finances [sounds like you could] and let the professional be the bad guy -- removes you from the "mommy" role.)
You know, for the very first time, I have been thinking about doing that. I always preferred being the accountant, because I am detail oriented and good with figures, and I liked knowing where things stood. H, when I met him, didn't balance his checkbook, just spent until it was gone, then stopped spending - shoulda been a clue, huh? Don't get me wrong - he's really not a spendthrift - he was always perfectly capable of not spending when money was low. He just didn't like having to keep track of it. With menopause, I find that things make me anxiousnow that never used to, and I wouldn't mind if he took over now - although then I'd probably worry whether he was doing it right! I think the solution lies in making him sit down with me every month to see just where the money goes.
Yes, this is exactly how it worked out in my house as well. He didn't see my gesture of giving him the finances as magnanimous... but retaliation for not listening to me. There are better ways to get him to own responsibility, and I'm guessing your thoughts about including him while you're paying bills is a better one.
Quote: and in order for it to be really worthwhile for me to go back to work, I need to see a good return on my time investment.
Ellie, sometimes doing things for ROI just isn't good for us. Can we appeal to your conservative nature by possibly entertaining an idea that might bring you some joy and help bridge his discomfort.. if only in the short term?
You're awfully good at thinking outside the box... I think if you pop the lid, you can see the value in doing a 180? How about some private tutoring at your D's HS?
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Ellie, just my two cents. I had the same accountant/spendthrift dynamic in my M. I gave up the bill-paying and budgeting and XH was supposed to do it. In three months, every account was past due and guess who the accountancy passed to? Yepperoni! Me.
I think this was part of his larger "sabotage" plan -- that is, if you are a failure at something no one asks you to do it again.
So think thru the money job -- or ways you could share it...?
Bets 
Don't get me wrong - he's really not a spendthrift - he was always perfectly capable of not spending when money was low. He just didn't like having to keep track of it. With menopause, I find that things make me anxiousnow that never used to, and I wouldn't mind if he took over now - although then I'd probably worry whether he was doing it right! I think the solution lies in making him sit down with me every month to see just where the money goes.