Any hope after divorce???

[sage]

Hope,

Out of curiosity...how did the email from your wife come about? Did something prompt it or was it out of the blue?

Sage

[Just_Me]

Out of curiosity...how did the email from your wife come about? Did something prompt it or was it out of the blue?

There was nothing yesterday. I e-mailed one time to tell her something about Peter Jennings because we had discussed it the night before at dinner. She replied back...asked about my day and I replied back. That was it. Nothing else.

As I look at our interactions she really only wants the "family thing". She refuses or is uncomfortable with the her/me thing. Thus the hesitation when I suggested lunch, but the invite to dinner last night and the acceptance of my invite the night before.

[sage]

As I look at our interactions she really only wants the "family thing". She refuses or is uncomfortable with the her/me thing. Thus the hesitation when I suggested lunch, but the invite to dinner last night and the acceptance of my invite the night before.

So, focus on the family thing!!! Right? Doesn't this get at two goals...you get to spend time with your w AND you get to display your improving r with the kids...

patience...I know it's hard but babysteps, ok?

Sage

[Just_Me]

Sage,

I probably should take whatever avenue she allows me, and i must admit I'm also more comfortable doing the family thing also. And that gives me a chance to see the kids. I guess my ego/pride are getting in the way. I'm just pissy that she wants to hustle this divorce through. I perceive the problem to be that she is trying hard to keep me as a friend so she'll have what we have now after divorce. Right now she and the kids get me when they want me and then when she doesn't she can just forget about me. That's not how I intend things to be after divorce. I want her to get the feel of that before she files to make sure that's what she wants.

[sage]

So, are you saying you think your w is being this way because it's convenient for her? Do you really believe that? Or is it possible that she's ebbing and flowing because she's confused -- you know, two steps forward, one step back.

Sounds like you're suggesting the approach of "show her what she'll be missing by pulling away"...I've never been particularly fond of that approach, especially fairly early in a sitch (yah, I know...it doesn't FEEL so early to you but...). To me it just seems like game playing...plus you have the knowledge already that when you go dark, w takes that to mean that you are "moving on" and that expedited her decision.

I don't mean to be a one trick pony here but it just seems like consistent practice of "doing what works" and not doing "what doesn't" combined with a boatload of patience and friendship...ya know?

That being said, perhaps others will chime in with successful application of "give her a taste of life w/o me"...and I'm not using "successful" lightly here...

Sage

[hope33]

Its good that your able to go to a book and pull out something positive. This tells me that you are not the type of person who dwells on the negative, your a person that seeks out the positive. Good stuff.
Yeh, probably not a good idea to make one of your goals to get divorced, since thats not what you really want. But venting here is good. Much better vent to us than w.
My W actually called me the day the D was supposed to go thru, crying because she didnt get it because I didnt have it noterized. Understand and accept that this is difficult for them and the dont always think real clearly. And get ready to let some of the flack roll off your back, remember to pick you battles.
I think your doing good. If you feel like your interactions are going to be less than positive, then go a little darker. Try to keep the interactions positive.

[Just_Me]

My impatience got the better of me again. It started as just an itch I had to scratch and turned into something bad. I called my W and said "can you do me a favor?" She says sure....and I said "when you get this divorce paperwork done I don't want someone to come serve me." She said she wasn't going to.

Is that stupid or what? I also asked her what's her hurry...she says this isn't a hurry...and why delay?...and I essentially said I didn't think I could be her friend to the extent we currently were...she cried and said she had to go....I didn't leave it at that...I called back and essentially did more of the same...said I needed a couple weeks to come to grips with things and I didn't want any contact with her....then I later took it back. The conversation was completely insane....at least I was.

I wasn't mad, I didn't raise my voice, I didn't cry, I didn't rant and rave...I just didn't have any kind of rationale thinking going on. I didn't know what I wanted. It was mainly just rambling...saying something...taking it back...saying something else....I just basically said...I'm confused about what I want and how I'll feel after divorce. At one point I did want to give an ultimatum but fortunately didn't. I do have serious doubts that I can just hang out with her like I would with a male friend for months on end. I can only do that if I don't love her or want anything else from her. I've never had a long term female friend and I really don't know if I want one, especially not one I love that doesn't love me back. That sounds insane.

I did end the conversation with "I genuinely do like hanging out with you and the kids and lately I haven't expected anything from you, but I'm not sure if things will change after D. I hope not."

Rather than writing here I should just refocus. I'm losing the calm that tells me...I have no control over what she does so just relax and forget about it.

My current plan: I have S-son tonight but after that I'm going dark for as long as I'm able. For the next....until she contacts me...I will not contact her. If she does I'll sound happy and be friendly but I'm going to turn down invites to stuff....I might accept one if it's been a while.
I think that what I have been doing....having contact etc, has done nothing for me. She doesn't feel any differently and she's able to carry on this friendship which is all she wants. I have actually moved closer to my latest goal...getting a divorce...than my true goal...staying married.

Actually....scratch all that...I'm not doing any of that B.S. I'm just going to do nothing as Sage told me before. Move no closer and no farther away. I'll be myself. I'll go with the flow. I'll accept whatever comes my way. And I'll be happy. I really have a good life. What am I thinking being such a arsehole. I'm fine. Sorry for this stupid note, but venting helps which is why I didn't erase any of the above. I don't think I moved myself closer or farther away from my goal because I was a week away from being served anyway. How could I make myself any closer? My wife will put a rush on it so it gets served tomorrow?

[Libra]

I'm sorry you're struggling so much Wes. I hope the weekend away allows you some much needed relaxing and/or fun time.

My prayers are with you.

Geneva

[Just_Me]

My prayers are with you.

Thanks Geneva, mine are with you too (for what they are worth)

I really do screw up in fits and starts don't I? Actually this process is so long that I don't think these little blips on the screen cause irreparable damage. Just look at the stuff I've done previously. We were friends after that.

I appreciate all your input. I would like to address one thing though...I don't know whether dark moved me away from my goal. My wife never said "I wanted to get back together with you but you screwed it up by showing me no attention." She actually started contacting me more when there was OW, less interaction, etc., but I didn't behave like her friend...more like I wasn't interested. That was the problem more than the dark. I just didn't respond properly to when she started contacting me. I didn't reach out to her. But we had the makings of a good friendship going which is the makings of a great marriage. Why screw that up? I'll just keep plugging along. Thanks for your continued interest in my stupidity.

[sage]

Wes...yikes! Wow. OK, man, back away from the phone!!

I'm just kidding...you've already done a full circle on the phone calls and all so I'll leave that alone.

You did, though, take the wind out of my proverbial sails because all afternoon I've been thinking about your sitch and I finally came up with a clear (I think) explanation about why the "I'll show her what's she's missing" thing often doesn't work... I'll post it anyway just in case you find something you can use in it...

Now, note that this is just my two cents.

I think the "I'll show her what she's missing" thing often doesn't work because a) it's often applied prematurely and b) it creates a cycle between WAS and LBS that is enormously difficult to break (not impossible! but difficult).

Here's what I think happens:

Stage 1:

WAS WORDS: I want a D. I want space.
WAS ACTIONS: I want a D. I want space.

(note that these are in sync)

Stage 2:
WAS WORDS: I want a D. I want space.
WAS ACTIONS: ----> I want to spend time with you. I'm confused.

Note that these are out of sync.

IF allowed to proceed unfettered, this may possibly move to:

Stage 3:
WAS WORDS: ----> I want to spend time with you. I'm confused.
WAS ACTIONS: ----> I want to spend time with you. I'm confused.

Still in sync, right?

Then onto:
Stage 4:
WAS WORDS: ----------> La di da. I won't say what I want.
WAS ACTIONS: ----> I don't want a D.

Then hopefully onto:

Stage 5:
WAS WORDS: ----> I don't want a D.
WAS ACTIONS: ----> I don't want a D.

NOW...I want to note a couple of things...first off, obviously, this doesn't necessarily apply to every sitch (heck, maybe it only applies to mine!) and secondly, the time lapse can be LONG and drawn out.

But what happens when things go awry?

Well, we all know how much we can screw up in stage one (arguing, pleading, crowding, pursuing) but it's stage two that intrigues me...

Stage 2:
WAS WORDS: I want a D. I want space.
WAS ACTIONS: ----> I want to spend time with you. I'm confused.

This seems to be the time when one of two things happens...the LBS starts asking for commitment to working on the M OR the LBS backs off a la "I'll show her what s/he's missing" (this is often the time when someone is described as a "cake eater", too). Sometimes I think it's as simple as the LBS starts acting cool toward the WAS when together...and all of a sudden the WAS is like "well, I was enjoying spending time with you but maybe you're not enjoying me? maybe I was right all along about this..."

They get confused. They pull away. The LBS is still dark. The WAS reaches out and they enter stage 2 again...can they get through it without more of the same? If not, the cycle continues....

It's one of the reasons why patience is such a pervasive mantra on the BB, and dropping the rope, and, as you point out, my alltime favorite "doing nothing". I have told you how I came to love "doing nothing", right? When h dropped the bomb I was so paralyzed with confusion and sadness, I couldn't figure out WHAT the right thing was to do (for the first time in my life) so, well, I did nothing.

So, what do you think? Do you see how impatience and pursuit can freak out the WAS during any of the stages? I do think that stage 2 and stage 4 are the hardest ones to get thru (well, after the crappiness of stage 1 and all!)

Sage