Thanks as always for your comments. I'll try my best to answer...
Quote: So, can you view this as w possibly waving the white flag that your "kind of dark" approach is too much for her to comfortably handle
My dark to this point hasn't even been grey. But thinking back specifically.....time with all the changes, no ring, and OW....that was the worst threat. Then time I went out of town and she read my thread then talked about it...felt it was "leading me on". Then again right before leaving for her trip after a couple days of more or less silence...then yesterday after going away for the weekend again (another swim meet) with little contact, but a few calls. Those times have never been very dark. More like one day max without any talk. But some abbreviated talks.
Quote: What would it take to make this happen? Can you start out by encouraging w to talk about "the dream" (her OWN dream?) even more? Ask her "what kind of law intrigues you?" or something of that ilk.
I wish I had remembered this tonight. I do know you wrote this but I kept it more along the lines of what do you need to do to start getting ready for law school. WHen is the LSAT? We did have a little discussion of that tonight. I could ask her but I know what it would take....moving to the closest school 300 miles away. Then I would have the choice of meeting her on weekends (if she wanted me to) or attempting to move there...but giving up a really good partnership and moving away from my kids. She will know this. I'd do the distance thing for 4 or 5 years if we had a good marriage. I don't know under the circumstances that I can honestly risk moving away for my WAW.
Last stuff before I update....
Quote: 1. one goal to bring about positive interactions in the here and now
2. one goal to specifically address an issue in the m
3. one goal for me -- my learning, my pma
1. One goal for here and now. I will show her that I can be her friend without pressure. When I'm doing that I will have conversations where I focus on what is going on in her life and her interests. I will listen attentively. I will not bring up the issues of our marriage. I will be happy and smiling while around her. I will not read friendliness in return as anything other than she is my friend. No attempts to initiate physical contact. How's that for action oriented? Sound okay?
2. One goal to specifically address an issue in the marriage: I have already started and continue to work on my treatment of S-kids and on my anger. There has not been an angry outburst to anyone except the dog in at least a month, probably more. So new issue: No negative comments disquised as jokes...ie no "you're evil"..."you are a cruel individual", or whatever. When I am not doing this I will attempt humor that does not have a negative connotation, even in jest. I will instead speak truthfully about positive things about my wife (and other people).
3. One goal for me. I will attempt to make at least a few male friends and/or build on current friendships. Possibilities...church groups, friends I haven't seen in awhile from college, sports leagues?? This will be more difficult.
Okay, those are the goals I'll work on and continue to work on previous goals to ensure I don't slip.
Now for tonight. This was a very good night. I dropped by after work and pick up S-son who wanted to stay over tonight. After I left I called my wife to tell her a little story about ex-W. She made several comments implying things about the R with my ex (things that implied more of a R than there is). But not real bad, I kind of said "ouch, low blow" and left it at that. No angry retort. We went over and picked up my boys and saw their new treehouse. It turns out my oldest son didn't want to go to this banquet so we instead went out for dinner.
Since we weren't going to the banquet I called and asked W and s-d if they wanted to go out with us. Dinner was a blast. Everyone interacted real well and on good behavior. It was a really good get together. Mainly lighthearted discussion with my w. A lot of joking with the kids....me with s-kids and my wife with mine. I think that was definitely along the lines I was shooting for. Absolutely no expectations from me in terms of more than friends.
The rest of the night was just the boys and me. I see she called while we were playing a game, but hasn't since and didn't leave a message. I guess she'll tell me tomorrow.
Well that's it for tonight. Things are going well, at least as far as the friendship goes.
Oh sage, the answer to your other question was that I was debating flying to Denver this weekend to see a friend from college (a guy) that I haven't seen in awhile. Just do a little bit of partying. I told my wife a while ago that I had talked with him...said I wanted to get down to visit him sometime...so not a surprise. I also mentioned it last night to my s-son that I might fly to Denver this weekend. So it isn't that dark, but I will make a point of mentioning it and indicating I'm going alone. She won't worry about who I'm leaving here with so much as what happens while I'm there.
Well goodnight all. Please give me a little feedback. And as always your responses are much appreciated. And sage, how did you know someone was talking about you?
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
Sage, I really appreciate what you have posted about going "too dark" in this case. However, in my own sitch, LRT and going pitch black got me a little contact and then she quit. I got no real positive baby steps no matter what I did. I have had three sessions with Vernetta the DB coach, and together we concluded that since my now XW was so very mad and only vented anger on me when we met before the D, that the best thing was to just leave her alone and wait for her to contact me. You see, I am nearly absolutely sure my XW has not expressed anger to anyone other than me. Yes, we had an arguement that lead to her leaving, but this was only part of her reasons even though she has never told me exactly why she left. She has refused to go to counseling and until she cools off, I can only sit still and wait. I never got the "I don't love you anymore" or anything like that. In fact, early on, she always replied to my "I love you" with "I love you, too." We divorced in 4 months at her insistence. She was talking to friends inquiring when she should file as soon as she moved out. Thus, I am pretty sure she made her decision to divorce out of anger and pride. It can take a very long time for such feelings to subside and that is why I remain dark. So Sage, since nothing really worked, do you still think remaining dark is bad for my sitch? I have tried being a friend and she is not interested in that either although she stated in a letter that she still wanted to be friends...our MC said it would be a better interpretation for me to take it that she meant she didn't want to be enemies. Meanwhile, I have been working at GAL, taking care of my sons and forgiving her. On top of that, I am working on anger management, but without much success so far...it is a very tough pattern to break.
Hope, you have a ton of positives there to carefully work with. As long as she is confused, you have a chance. She does need time to work through things and as long as you don't pressure her with rebuilding the R, you won't drive her further away. I think it is great that the two of you still check up on the stepkids. My XW has pretty much dropped that altogether even though she said and wrote that she would work at it.
From the sounds of it I would tend to agree with the counselor that your wife means "let's not be enemies". It's not real "friendly" for her to never contact you. I would think if she wanted to be friends she would accept a few request for contact that were friendly. But how long is long enough for going dark? Do you poke your head out every once in a while to see if she's still angry?
In my sitch, I truly believe that she wants to be my friend. Not the kind you don't talk to for years. And really I do enjoy her company and want to be her friend too. One thing I really enjoyed this morning was my step son stayed over night and last night and this morning he started calling me dad. It was cool. Anyway, nothing much new to post...I just sent her a quick e-mail to tell her something about Peter Jennings (that we talked about last night) and ask how her day was.
TTFN,
me
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
This will be short and sweet. Here's my WAW's latest....
Quote: I don't want you to be mad at me or anything but I should probably get the legal description of the house and what's left owing on it...
Again, I don't want you to hurt but I also want you to understand that this process hurts me... despite anything. Deb.
Whatever. If she wants a divorce more power to her. As I said...if that's what makes her happy I will not make a single move to stand in her way. I'll stick with the friends statement until I can't be that anymore (ie someone else comes along). I don't think I'll take her to dinner so much when we're divorced. It should probably be Dutch if we go anymore.
Oh well, I guess I wasn't real convincing when I said I would accept whatever she decided. She still thinks I'll be angry.
Wes
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
I validated that I understand this is painful for her. And that's not fake....it is hard for her. What I didn't say was that I don't understand why she is in such a hurry for divorce. This whole thing doesn't make sense to me. I can't figure out why I'm moving farther away from the goal. It's not being friends. We've done well with that...so I don't get it.
I did call and tell her that I could find the stuff she wanted. She called after that and asked if I wanted to go to dinner with them. I declined. I talked to her again and she asked again if I was sure I didn't want to go. I repeated that I didn't. My s-son wanted to come over instead of going to dinner so she dropped him off and the interaction with her was okay.
I think the best thing to do if I wanted to achieve my goals is to change them....
Goal1: I'll be divorced by the end of April.
I think that should be easy enough to attain. I'll probably be ahead of schedule. Divorce isn't any different than what I have now so it's no big deal.
Sage, I've monitored. The only thing I can think is that this being around her, even when things are great is not working. It may even be worse when things are great. I've had a fair amount of contact and she just won't quit talking about divorce. Part of this is anger on my part, but I do think I need a lot less interaction with her. I'll still care for her and still want to be her friend, just not the kind of friend that I hang out with whenever she wants to.
Well everything is set. I'm off to Denver this weekend. Yes, I told her since she's watching the dog. I'm going to have fun.
Koshka, I'm not sure what's worse...being friends or being enemies. Being friends is too much like being married. And the really positive interactions just makes you wish for more of her. And then what happens is you get shot down or she talks about D continuously and it hurts worse. Frankly I'm getting sick of this. The interaction feels too fake to me. If we were that great of "friends" she would consider my wishes too. As she said herself "men and women can't be close friends". Well if she doesn't want more than friendship then she can find someone else. Because I want more. I want someone that genuinely wants to be around me and has an open mind about moving to the next step.
Wes
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
Quote: Real giving means that you give to your spouse that which s/he needs and wants whether we understand it, like it, agree with it or not. We do it because we love that person. Real giving makes us stretch because it is usually an act that doesn't come easily or naturally. But we do it anyway."
My wife's wants and needs? A divorce. I've already said that I'm willing to give her that because I love her too much not to. But I need to look at what else she needs.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
bit of a lurker me, but I've read it all (your thread that is). Wow you don't half beat yourself up about stuff ya know!
Here's my .02 worth - just don't give your W any reason to think there's an OW. Have a great time in Denver and remember she feels that going totally dark isn't a 180 - it's a zero. I don't know how DBcorrect this is but maybe a call to find out if everything's ok? Not sure if that's ok - better listen to Sage on that.
End of April is very soon for a D, don't write that goal down on paper. Keep it vague - I'm a bit superstitious about stuff like that.
take care and g'bless Ruby*
...and they lived happily ever after. Or did they?
I read your thread every day!!!