I plan to keep it light and fun. We may go to lunch and a movie (her first suggestion) or dinner, movie and dancing (my suggestion to which she said she did not know I had an agenda). I don't have an agenda other than having fun and not talking about all of this. I want to create fun memories, and give her a longing again to be with me without pressure from me. If she decides that she would rather go to lunch and a movie, that is what we will do. I don't know what to say about your H on the R pressure. Does he respond to let's just have a good time, no R talk so that we can build some fun memories. If it goes well for a few months (or weeks, whatever), then maybe we can start to talk about the future.
Talking with you really helps me get perspective on how I need to handle my sitch.
I wish I could have her be similar to you. She tried to tell me over the years that what I was doing was hurting her. I did not hear. But she did not leave 5 times, not even 1 time until now. I have never been to a counselor before. I am going now. I am motivated to change because I don't like the person who did those things, the soon to be old me. I wish she would give me just one more chance in our M to see if this is really true. That is all I need.
Please read my threads and let me know your thoughts from a female perspective. today is moving day link
I plan to keep it light and fun. We may go to lunch and a movie (her first suggestion) or dinner, movie and dancing (my suggestion to which she said she did not know I had an agenda). I don't have an agenda other than having fun and not talking about all of this. I want to create fun memories, and give her a longing again to be with me without pressure from me. If she decides that she would rather go to lunch and a movie, that is what we will do. I don't know what to say about your H on the R pressure. Does he respond to let's just have a good time, no R talk so that we can build some fun memories. If it goes well for a few months (or weeks, whatever), then maybe we can start to talk about the future.
Talking with you really helps me get perspective on how I need to handle my sitch.
I wish I could have her be similar to you. She tried to tell me over the years that what I was doing was hurting her. I did not hear. But she did not leave 5 times, not even 1 time until now. I have never been to a counselor before. I am going now. I am motivated to change because I don't like the person who did those things, the soon to be old me. I wish she would give me just one more chance in our M to see if this is really true. That is all I need.
Please read my threads and let me know your thoughts from a female perspective. today is moving day link
Thanks so much for your analysis. I would like to keep in contact here to see how you are doing with your H because in alot of ways, he is me. Our sitch's are the same in alot of ways, just reversed. I would like to bounce ideas off of you of what is going on with my W, and would love for you to bounce ideas off for your H. Hopefully we can both get to a happier place in our Ms. I don't remember if anyone here asked, but have you had your H read DR. I have not read DB, just DR. Maybe if you got him to read it, you could point out how it will take time and no pressure on his part, but to slowly show you the changes he is making without pressuring you. That would be like showing you love the way you want to see love right now. It takes a long time to build up the trust in his changes. That is what I have to show my W.
On the one point you made about my W feeling ill, and I offered to get something to help her feel better. Whenever she was not feeling well, I would always do what was necessary to get her better. I would run out in the middle of the night in the snow to get her whatever she needed. I do see your point. I will try to just wish her better when something like that happens.
Again, thanks so much for lending me your thoughts. It is one thing to work in a small vacuum of what the books and tapes say, but it is another to hear the perspective from someone in my W's similar sitch.
I like your idea of bouncing ideas off each other. You may contact me here anytime. It just may take me a little bit to reply (when work is crazy).
I have not asked H to read DR or DB. I did have him watch tape 1 of the marriage breakthrough with me. The very next day he was so hopeful, he started pushing again and I just had to leave. The reason for this is b/c I have always come back to him b/c of his persistance and I hated hurting him...I don't know that it was ever really what I wanted, but more that I would give in to his pressure (over time).
I do not want to follow the same pattern. I want to end the cycle and unhealthy one-sided relationship we had. If I go back, I want it to be b/c I want to be there and not out of pity for him. I would hope that you would want the W to come back b/c she wants to be there and NOT b/c she felt sorry for you.
I am headed out for the evening - going to stop by the bookstore. Keep your chin up. I think you have a lot of good things going for you and I do see that the door is still open. She may be cold sometimes, but it's only the hurt talking. Keep that in mind.
Question - I was going to send H the web address here, I thought it would be very helpful to him as well (since it's mostly the left behind spouses), but at the same time I don't know if I want him reading my posts. I feel like it will make me vulnerable - Weird? Your thoughts?
FYI, DR is basically the new, revised, easier to follow version of DB. It should never have been given a different title (or DB should have been taken out of print when DR was released).
I think you are right to not have your H reading here right now. First of all, he may get his own handle and start posting things to you that may not be in your best interest at that time. There are people here that could be of help, and you may not be able to trust what some of the wise ones are saying because who knows if it is H or not. You may feel you cannot say what you really want because he may be reading, and sometimes you might need to say something that could really hurt him.
I am reading DR for the 2nd time. It truly is a good book. I am hopeful now when I wasn't before. W had the kids call me so I could sing to them (well daughter anyway, son is 14, and he doesn't want to hear me belt out Rock a bye Baby) I cannot tell you how happy I was to hear from my kids. W did not come to the phone, and I did not ask for her. Just giving her space.
Having your H read DR might be a good way to have him learn a little more about how Rs should go. It has been an eye opener for me, and it has helped me grow. The more I read the better I feel. The 2nd time through is giving me insight into some things I missed the first time. Then, like I said in a previous post, you can gently point out how you need to go slow and H show you love by being patient and not bring up the R at every turn. May even point out to him that he is close to the last resort technique, and how he could use a few 180s, and how he could lighten up and use humor sometimes instead of being serious all the time about the R, and ... and ...
I have to say that I am disappointed with myself. I wanted to buy the DR book last night...yet I stayed here, reading posts. By the time I left the book store was closed. I went to another grocery retailer that also carry books, with no luck. Therefore, my goal today is to not work late; to stop and buy 2 DR books (one for H, based on your suggestion) and maybe the lawyers book on Healing the Hurt, before heading to the gym. I was going to read the book(s) while doing a little cardio.
I am finding myself questioning things: Can I truly forgive if I can't forget?
Isn't it ironic that I am the WAW, yet, I am the one here doing things to try to save my M? This should say a lot about how our R worked. It was usually me taking care of things.
Shouldn't he be doing these things? H has not even suggested anything to help us, except couples counseling, which I tried for YEARS to get him to go to.
I just feel like I am the one still "trying". I feel like I get nothing from him - no effort. Yet, H says he loves me, that he wants me back and that we can be happy together. He tells me things are going to be different. I just don't believe his words....maybe b/c I have heard them so many times before?
The only positive is that he has finally started giving me time and space. Unfortunately, I think it came too late. I am finding that I do not miss him. I miss having a nice home vs. the apt I live in now. He might have been a spender, but he also made a very good living. I miss the dogs. I miss doing things with him, but I am not sure it's him or the companionship that I miss.
I know that I was extremely unhappy the last 2-3 years that I lived with him. It was so stressful. I was completely overwhelmed doing the majority of the work around the house, making all the decisions, taking care of myself, him and the dogs, handling our finances, and working long hours on top of it. I once told him that I never felt more alone than I did with him in the same house. When he came home, I might (yes, might) get a hello or some kind of acknowledgement, but usually he went straight to the TV or the computer. We just didn't talk anymore. I did my thing and he did his.
I learned to play darts and I would go to sports bars with him to play in tournaments, etc. just so we would have something to do together. Unfortunately, he would hang out and talk to his buddies, more than with me. I am very outgoing and I make friends easily, so I always had someone to talk to; it just wasn't my H.
It was actually at one of these dart tournaments that I met AM, whom I find attractive. I found myself wanting to spend time with this OM. He was fulfilling the emotional needs I wasn't getting at home. I started asking this OM to come to play wherever we were playing so that I would have someone who paid me the attention I wanted/needed. Of course, I knew this was not right, but I didn't care - I needed the attention. The really sad part is H didn't even notice that AM was flirting and paying attention to me!
After a while, I realized that I was only complicating an already complicated sitch. Plus, I did not want to hurt the OM by getting involved w/ him while I was still uncertain about my M. I realized I needed time alone - to figure out what I wanted. I am happy to say that we (the OM & I) have remained friends.
So, here I am separated and alone. I don't want to go back to an unhappy sitch b/c I am lonely. I don't want to go back b/c I feel sorry for H and his hurting. If (and that's a BIG if) I go back, I want it to be b/c I believe we will have a loving and happy marriage. Now, how do I get that?
What is so hard is that I know we love each other, but my love for H has changed. I feel more of a concern and caring for him than the love I once felt. I have no desire to be intimate w/ H. I don't want him touching me, which means I am still hurting. But after the hurt heals, where will that leave us? I am not sure I can heal in H's time frame. I feel like he wants it to be overnight.
Quote: I am not sure I can heal in H's time frame.
And you shouldn't have to give it a moment's thought. His time frame is HIS problem. Your focus should be on your healing. I think it's important to keep enforcing the boundaries you need. You can't have a healthy R without healthy boundaries. If H can't figure that out and respect yours, than he's definitely not ready to have you back.
Remember that you can feel sad for H's pain, yet not try to take responsibility for fixing it.
I cannot tell you how happy I was to hear from my kids. W did not come to the phone, and I did not ask for her. Just giving her space.
I went to another grocery retailer that also carry books, with no luck. Therefore, my goal today is to not work late; to stop and buy 2 DR books (one for H, based on your suggestion) and maybe the lawyers book on Healing the Hurt, before heading to the gym. I was going to read the book(s) while doing a little cardio. 
