Thanks Sage, I'm thinking i need to back off and not push the issue, but I've told him I'm not going to avoid going into certain rooms of my house because of what I might find (he didn't even bother to hide his stupid phone cards this time), and that I have no intention of avoiding asking questions that I feel like I deserve answers to because my asking angers him.
I was amazed last night, I did have the presence of mind to be able to step back and listen to what he was saying, and he was just all over the place with his rationalizations and distractions, trying to displace/transfer the focus from what he is chosing to do to my failings a person that "made" him do what hes doing, and how awful I was to him all those years (last night it was up from 10 bad years to all 25 years of our marriage, he was just the rebound guy)........It was interesting to observe that it really fuels his fire when I don't let him digress from the issue.
Wow, that is amazing how fast he can run right back to where he was. just blows me away.
Did this ever happen with your H when it looked like things were going so well?
I do need to bite my tongue though...when he went to call her this morning, I told him to tell "wonder woman" good morning for me.....later I asked him if wonder woman was having a good morning, he replied "how would I know" and I said well I'm sure she told you when you were on the phone" Childish adolescent sniping I know. at least I didnt call her a whore.
My mind is such a foggy mess today....I just got this email from H.... I cant think how I need to respond.
Deb; I hope you are functioning better than I am today, I’m really feeling tired. I want you to know that I realize that Aaron picked up the phone Monday and came in on my conversation with Donna. I had called her, as a friend and the conversation lasted less than 10 minutes. She was helping her daughter prepare for a test on ancient Egypt. I knew some of the terms and joked that Aaron really was the person to talk to. The conversation ended. I share that because you need to know that it isn’t romantic. I agree, it isn’t good for our relationship to continue to have contact with her. I guess the reason that I did was seeing how bad she was hurting, I was too. It seemed being friends was what we really missed the most and I thought we could be and slowly taper off as we adjusted to the new situation. She seems to have her priorities right, focused on Kat right now. She doesn’t want me coming in to Kat’s life if I’m not going to stay so really doesn’t want me around on Saturdays or Sundays, I agree with her. I apologize for and own my part in this mess. I was dishonest as I was having phone contact with her, though it has tapered off quite a bit. I didn’t realize that the contact was effecting my relationship with you. I guess I do feel some resentment at having to hurt someone I cared about, I realize that was my own doing but it spills at time back into all the past hurts that we were talking about last night. I feel resentment at having to lose someone who was supportive and really feed my ego at a time that I desperately needed it. Some of this has to do with just feeling like such a small, insignificant cog in the CKMHC wheel, no matter how good the work, it’s nothing. I could see my career was going nowhere. My peers getting jobs as supervisors, me same as 16 years ago, just an out patient therapist. Add in the ice in our relationship at the time and your comments about nobody wanting me, my depression and I was ready to feel like I was someone important, desired. When I shut the door on her it feels like I’ve thrown away that life line and I start to feel myself sinking down into the depression again, so I call her, I guess just looking for reassurance, that she still does care at some level, etc.. Perhaps none of this matters to you, as your issue is that it has to stop. I just wanted you to know it’s not because I hate you or that I am purposely trying to hurt or aggravate you. I did appreciate the effort you put into change, I believe it was helping. After last night I realize that it may have been time limited and more of a surface change than to your core, either way it was appreciated and I know took great effort and courage given this circumstance. I am interested in your thoughts, it was just not going any where last night and this morning as we were both too angry. I have learned that for the most part I’m better off shutting up when angry as I’ve nothing to offer that is constructive
Wow. Deb, this letter is a BIG STEP for your h!! Do you see that? This letter combined with the "I just want to be the boss comment" is a goldmine of information and to me, a very positive sign.
My two cents is that I would send him a note back soon that says something like "It means everything to me that you shared your thoughts with me" -- or something much more lucid than that! IOW, I'd be fairly quick to respond positively (noting that he shared with you!) but I wouldn't go overboard before you've had a chance to strategize.
This is good stuff, I think.
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
I would suggest one of two things -- either go a little grey (wait a long time or don't respond at all), or do a 180. How would you have normally responded, and how can you 180 that?
Hang in there, kiddo! I know this must be making you nuts!
My sitch is different than yours (H had a one night stand with a woman he knew casually who lives in a different state. It happened when we were separated and happened out of anger - H thought I was cheating with a co-worker which I wasn't) but I have had the problem of the OW calling H periodically to see if we are still together and wanting to be his "friend" (this is how I found out about the ONS 6 months after we got back together. Her phone number was in H's cell). I didn't tell H he absolutely could not talk to her. I said I understand that you see her as an innocent party in all of this and that you don't want to hurt her feelings but how would you feel if our roles were reversed and I did what you did and the guy was still calling me after we got back together. Would you be comfortable with this? Would you trust me and believe that nothing was going on? How would you feel if all I did was try to get off the phone with him and didn't tell him point blank to stop calling me? It is obvious she is not taking the hint that you are no longer interested and every time you are polite you encourage her. H's response was you are right. If she ever calls again I will tell her to stop and I will not be polite about it. She hasn't called since June so I think she has finally got the hint (and trust me I check his cell phone. Everyone can beat me with a 2 x4 but it makes me feel more secure every time I find nothing). I think sharing with H how much it hurt me that he was being nice to her really helped. He was trying to be the nice guy not realizing that it was hurting me and my feelings need to come before OW's.
Thanks Sage and Martha H....I'm still thinking about my response but will say something, at least thanks and I'm thinking of him, soon....
Sage, yes I think this is big stuff but I thought we had worked through it before... I figured out by at least last spring that he wanted to be the boss, and thought I'd really stepped way back....I do think it's huge that he said he hadnt realize continued contact hurts our R....I am discouraged that he thinks the changes are surface changes. That's terribly discouraging.
Martha H, I'm not sure how I would have responded to this before, probably something along the lines that I appreciate his sharing with me, and my feelings in response to what he's said, trying to put them in a positive light.
I feel that it's important to let him know that S said not a word about the monday night phone call to me....which is true, he didn't. Do you concur that is important, or should I let it go? I'm still thinking on the rest of my response. I have a few minutes, because ordinarily I'd be in a meeting till about 10:30, and H is probably in an appointment.
Thanks Moving Forward. It's a huge puzzlement to me why my feelings don't seem to matter to H, or even S and/or D's....
It was interesting to note his comments about some of his distress being from his work sitch....I've always felt that was a good part of it. guess I was right about that as well
Ah honey, I know this sucks. But it doesn't help, and I mean really doesn't help, that they're still working together. (And he should have known better than to think it was okay for him to talk to her! Yeesh...)
I know, right now, he's not considering your feelings. Or anyone else's (besides OW), and I'm sorry. It does sound to me like you are getting a bunch of typical MLC/EA/A garbage, and it sucks. (I don't know how you managed to keep quiet and not demand he quit talking to her...I think I would have lost my cool! )
My practical advice? I agree with sage. She's right on about your H sharing now, and that's such a good thing. I agree, you should give him sort of response about "thank you for sharing" or something like that.
I also think there's a lot of good info in that message. Maybe not anything that you should directly respond to him about...but it gives you the key to why OW keeps creeping back in. She stroked his ego. She built him up.
Maybe it's time to fight fire with fire??
My suggestion would be to really surprise him when he gets home. And I mean in a good way. He's expecting you to give him the third degree when he gets home. Why not send your kid off, cook a nice steak dinner, and then tell him you're sorry he's had such a hard time at work? (If I recall, the whole steak dinner thing worked well in the past. )
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But it doesn't help, and I mean really doesn't help, that they're still working together. (And he should have known better than to think it was okay for him to talk to her! Yeesh...)
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